EVE General Discussion

People with that kind of motivation to succeed would not be content puttering around in hisec. They will start PvPing, head out to lowsec, and build a following as large as their leadership capability will afford.

Most hisec corporations are associations of convenience. When things get inconvenient, the individuals will go their own direction. Perhaps they will gt back together when the inconvenience is gone, who knows?

Nullsec alliances are self-selecting: you are out there because that is where you want to be, your play is about empire building (or at least being a serf to the empire builder you worship), and you are generally happiest when marching to the beat of someone else's drum.

Hisec alliances are more likely to be like driftwood rafts: these people happen to be doing kinda the same thing at sort of the same time, so they do it together because it is nice to have people around who share their interests. Good hisec corporations aren't about good leadership, they are about social networking and sharing goals. Hisec is different to nullsec, and that is a basic understanding that you do not have since you are so deeply buried in nullsec life.

Nearly all highsec corporations that aren't alt corps have very niche purposes, like a couple guys getting together to manufacture goods, or to haul freight like RFF. That should not be the case. Players should be able to join a community where they can enjoy the game together, not necessarily as individuals in highsec. It is very difficult to do so and results in a lot of dead corps and complaints of "griefing" because the game promotes people to leave their social groups and abandon their friends or their special project when things get inconvenient. Not saying that backstabbing shouldn't be possible, but you shouldn't push people into making it the default reaction if you are threatened, or to completely avoid making friends like it is now.

If people wanted to exterminate hi-sec carebears, said extermination would happen. Outnumbered or not, the organization more competitive people bring to the table would make it unstoppable.

Fact is, very few want the carebears gone, we just want them to stop trying to ruin the game by adding more and more 'save me!' buttons to what should be a hard, vicious, and intensely competitive game.

They HAVE been imposing their play style on PVPers, if you haven't been paying attention to the game for last few years.

This is backlash to that, since PVPers have learned that if they do not fight, then they will impose their will on the game.

Carebears brought this dislike on themselves, they were not hated on this way before they started whining loud enough that CCP started listening.

Oh, and Hisec is not carebear territory, any more than nullsec is pvper territory. They should both have a blend of both.

I don't see how carebear have been imposing on anything except on a few logic changes (ie: no insurance on ganking)

Faction warfare brought back some life to low-sec system.
WH brought real pure PVP (no local, no stations!)

the real problem isn't carebear in high-sec. it's station safety in low/null.

Truth is, it's so lame to hunt in low/null (so easy to dockup) that those that want to prey on easy target choose to try to bring their PVP on those that doesn't want it, but dare to get out in space.

and how does that sound to you?

The game is harsh to 'EVE-born' players and we are in fact very lucky to have been a part of organizations that have allowed us to learn how to play the game without much risk involved. But I look at the community that the new player is exposed to first and it is very fragmented, highly unorganized, and generally hostile towards new players. There are very few organizations (basically Eve University and RVB) that are structured, trustable, and willing to help. If there were more open communities out there that would accept new players, you would see them stick around for longer. A tutorial only goes so far, the best way to learn is to have an angry nerd scream at you on comms and a community that welcomes your dumb questions.



"Carebears" are imposing their will on players through wardec mechanic evasion either by hiding in a NPC corp or by recycling 1 man corps. If I pay 50-500 mil to declare war on you, you should be a target to me for a week. If you are not, you are imposing your will on me. If you skirt this by being in an unwardeccable corp, you are imposing your will on me by not allowing me to declare war on you. The only people who should be able to avoid wardecs are brand new players.

It's a different story when you have no mechanic available to prevent them from dodging the wardec.

Or more importantly, in-game consequences because of wardec evasion. Another example of how NPC corps hurt newbies and disincentive working together in an MMO.

You know... I just realized some of the futility of this whole thing... this isn't going to be about haulers... you can't stop alts at this point, which is what the haulers are. Even if wardec couldn't be easily broken, they'd switch to an alt, and no one's going to be able to afford to declare war on every single hauler that might be a threat to them It just isn't cost effective... in fact, I question if anyone would have that kind of money. So that logic ultimately gets thrown out the window. I mean, even if all that hauler's alts were decced, someone else would take over for that area. So in the end, the only thing changing war decs would do is make it easier to target individual people because you don't like them or just because which are not intended under high sec far as I'm aware. Essentially it'd be paying so your larger group can torture a few select individuals.... sooo, yeah. Essentially hazing.



I'm against your suggested style of it... I'm for adding new things that encourage war decs and corps and not slap the faces of individuals however.

There are no out of game consequences if you screw over an out of game community, unless it is extremely tight knit like a WoW guild or something. We're just not awful at managing our players and assets. Everyone has to worry about betrayal, even out of game communities.



You were in the corp/alliance when I wardecced it. That should make you a target, even if only for a little while. Kind of like how corps are still shootable as they leave an alliance.

There's a difference between people who never log in during the wardec and people who actively avoid the wardec and continue playing regardless. If a wardecced player logs in a few times in the week and the hostiles never see them while they are targetable, thats OK in anyone's book because the hostiles should have scouted you out better. When the player drops corp and avoids being flashy red and goes about their business they are imposing their will to do whatever they want in spite of clearly planned and well thought out game mechanics. That's wrong.