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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Gallente got their Medal.

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IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#161 - 2013-02-04 03:45:26 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Killboards don't lie. Number of kills by FW pilots are rising every month.

Must suck to be a FW naysayer these days.


I have to agree. When I started in FW I would maybe get a decent fight every few days - I'd fly about and find nothing.
Now it's only quiet mid week nights (my timezone is why I get quiet times).

Went from a few odd fights a month to maybe 70 with limited time online.

I only undocked twice yesterday in between some hardcore ship spinning sessions and got decent fights both times.


https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#162 - 2013-02-04 04:07:45 UTC
Cearain wrote:
This medal was award for fw sov gains. It has nothing to do with kills.
No, it has to do with dominating systems. When one side dominates a system, the other side decides to "find other, more interesting things to do in Eve".

Most of the systems are won by dominance. If there is doubt as to who can dominate, then there are fights. If there is no doubt, then there are no fights and people like you will say that occupancy warfare is a pve mechanic.

I'll give you a perfect example. Bloody Ronin Syndicate loved pwn'ing noobs in OMS but when it came time to defend their system, they couldn't due to overwhelming force brought to bear on them by the Gallente. So, they docked up and moved their stuff out.

So, not many fights determined the fate of OMS, just dominance of one side over the other. And that was pretty much what happened throughout the FW theater from November and on.





Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#163 - 2013-02-04 04:38:52 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
This medal was award for fw sov gains. It has nothing to do with kills.
No, it has to do with dominating systems. When one side dominates a system, the other side decides to "find other, more interesting things to do in Eve".

Most of the systems are won by dominance. If there is doubt as to who can dominate, then there are fights. If there is no doubt, then there are no fights and people like you will say that occupancy warfare is a pve mechanic.

I'll give you a perfect example. Bloody Ronin Syndicate loved pwn'ing noobs in OMS but when it came time to defend their system, they couldn't due to overwhelming force brought to bear on them by the Gallente. So, they docked up and moved their stuff out.

So, not many fights determined the fate of OMS, just dominance of one side over the other. And that was pretty much what happened throughout the FW theater from November and on.



What happened, and what is happening now in fw, is there are thousands of players/alts farming plexes who run whenever an enemy/neutral warps in.


If a side does not want to do this then you are right they pack up their stuff and move. If gallente or any faction gets it in their head that they want to have alts orbiting buttons incessantly they will win the sov war. Its dominance of a sort, but I wouldn't call it dominance at pvp.

4xs more plexes per kill compared to 2009.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#164 - 2013-02-04 05:12:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Dread Operative
Cearain wrote:
4xs more plexes per kill compared to 2009.

More plexs need to be captured per system. Defensive plexing also leads to more offensive plexing. Something that not a lot of people did in the past. Do defensive plexing count towards that number? Nice attempt though to use the same stat over and over again though.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#165 - 2013-02-04 10:13:19 UTC
Cearain wrote:

If a side does not want to do this then you are right they pack up their stuff and move. If gallente or any faction gets it in their head that they want to have alts orbiting buttons incessantly they will win the sov war.
Proven false. Caldari were achieving 73k VP/day this past year and they failed to win the sov war. Continue with your whines.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#166 - 2013-02-04 14:40:39 UTC
Dread Operative wrote:
Cearain wrote:
4xs more plexes per kill compared to 2009.

More plexs need to be captured per system. Defensive plexing also leads to more offensive plexing. Something that not a lot of people did in the past. Do defensive plexing count towards that number? Nice attempt though to use the same stat over and over again though.


Again if plexing is a more of a pvp mechanic we would expect to see more kills per plex captured. If plexing is farmville then we might expect to see 4xs fewer kills per plex captured. We see the latter.

Kills per plex captured is the most direct data we have as to whether plexing is more of a pvp or pve activity. So yeah its basically the bottom line on this discussion. Sorry if you want to forget that fact.

Yes defensive plexing counts now and in 2009. And in 2009 people would defensive plex as much offensive plex. Neither paid lp, both gave standings increases. Offensive plexing in larger plexes might pay an ok amount in tags if you killed the rats but you also had rats shooting you so that was about a wash.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#167 - 2013-02-04 14:45:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:

If a side does not want to do this then you are right they pack up their stuff and move. If gallente or any faction gets it in their head that they want to have alts orbiting buttons incessantly they will win the sov war.
Proven false. Caldari were achieving 73k VP/day this past year and they failed to win the sov war. Continue with your whines.



Are you talking about when we had cashouts? Sorry but those mechanics were much different. People would get what they needed for a tier 5 cashout, and cashout. There were big incentives to do that and the player base was pretty pumped about it. Now the war is much more stagnant and players are more apathetic toward tiers.

edit: Plus you are forgetting the minmifarm diagonal plexers that they had to deal with and who did not get vp for their efforts. Really when you consider that in 2009 there was really no reason to diagonal plex and now there is the 4xs as many plex per kill is likely an understatement.

Q: do you think timer rollbacks will result in fewer plex per kill? We both agree some version of that is a good idea. I don't think it will fix faction war but I do think it will result in fewer plex per kill.

Continue with your cheerleading.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#168 - 2013-02-04 23:04:50 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Continue with your cheerleading.

As long as kills and fights are up in low sec, I AM HAPPY! Plex warfare is one significant reason why there are more fights.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#169 - 2013-02-05 18:33:02 UTC
BTW Cearain I actually felt pretty bad about shitting all over your fight in that plex in abune last night. I honestly thought I was warping into a potential 1v2 which are my favs.

Cearain wrote:

Continue with your cheerleading.

nom nom
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#170 - 2013-02-05 20:54:06 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
BTW Cearain I actually felt pretty bad about shitting all over your fight in that plex in abune last night. I honestly thought I was warping into a potential 1v2 which are my favs.

Cearain wrote:

Continue with your cheerleading.




No need to feel bad.

It sorta turned into a 1v2 since you stole my thrasher kill and then blew up my ship. Not my finest hour, but good on your part. I thought you were with the guy until I saw I didn't get the damn killmail.

I had a decent number of good fights last night. So I am happy.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
ALUCARD 1208
Digital Ghosts
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#171 - 2013-02-18 14:39:45 UTC
why make a thread then post ur **** in here too?

BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#172 - 2013-02-18 14:46:09 UTC
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
why make a thread then post ur **** in here too?


So we will always remember the mechanics under which the Gallente, "dominated" and got their medal.

Why do the facts bother you so much, that you don't want them posted?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#173 - 2013-02-18 14:52:27 UTC
Well to be completely fair it's a far more balanced system then the one the Finnish , er I mean Caldari "dominated" and got their medal...

Cearain wrote:


So we will always remember the mechanics under which the Gallente, "dominated" and got their medal.


nom nom
ALUCARD 1208
Digital Ghosts
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#174 - 2013-02-18 15:13:08 UTC  |  Edited by: ALUCARD 1208
u do realise the guys u linked are mainly from amarr and minmatar right? and have no bearing on our warzone and before u say those farmers helped us please remember that taking a plex in the opposing warzone doesnt add to personal vp so therefore ur argument is invalid.

it bothers me because i just dont see ur reason for shitting up as many threads as possible when uv opened ur own thread with the same bullshit in. if u think its going to make ccp change it ur wrong there done with fw get over it we all work under this mechanic and caldaris/amarr seem to be taking advantage of it and are even crowing of there victorys in other posts

also if ur not involved in fw why do u keep crying about it?

BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#175 - 2013-02-18 15:44:44 UTC
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
u do realise the guys u linked are mainly from amarr and minmatar right? and have no bearing on our warzone and before u say those farmers helped us please remember that taking a plex in the opposing warzone doesnt add to personal vp so therefore ur argument is invalid.

it bothers me because i just dont see ur reason for shitting up as many threads as possible when uv opened ur own thread with the same bullshit in. if u think its going to make ccp change it ur wrong there done with fw get over it we all work under this mechanic and caldaris/amarr seem to be taking advantage of it and are even crowing of there victorys in other posts

also if ur not involved in fw why do u keep crying about it?



I am in fw. Just not with my pvp characters.

It doesn't matter what faction the top plexers are from. Their fits, and killboard still demonstrates how you win the sov war.

I posted facts that prove my predictions and you accuse me of crying? Sorry I am not crying. I am smug. I am also amused by your posts which suggest you are upset by the facts.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
ALUCARD 1208
Digital Ghosts
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#176 - 2013-02-18 15:58:49 UTC  |  Edited by: ALUCARD 1208
humm how does them having top vp show how we won it.... and ur in fw just not with pvp toons so ur admitting to doing the very thing u been shitposting and crying about..... bravo way to make urself look like an idiot

BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#177 - 2013-02-18 16:32:42 UTC
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
humm how does them having top vp show how we won it.... and ur in fw just not with pvp toons so ur admitting to doing the very thing u been shitposting and crying about..... bravo way to make urself look loike an idiot


It shows how the sov war is won under the mechanics in effect when gallente got a medal.

I am simply posting the facts. This is how you win the sov war with these mechanics. I am quite happy to provide the data that proves my prediction is correct. You are the one who seems upset by these facts.

And yes my alts are in fw doing the same thing. It is how the game is designed. You can curse the people who are winning all you want. Keep saying they are doing it wrong, as you continue to lose and they continue to win.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#178 - 2013-02-18 17:01:34 UTC
Cearain wrote:
It shows how the sov war is won under the mechanics in effect when gallente got a medal.

Actually it doesn't. You're posting "facts" that are 2 months late and don't reflect the "boots on the ground" when we took the systems. Carry on.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#179 - 2013-02-18 17:09:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
It shows how the sov war is won under the mechanics in effect when gallente got a medal.

Actually it doesn't. You're posting "facts" that are 2 months late and don't reflect the "boots on the ground" when we took the systems. Carry on.




Are the mechanics the same or not?

I would like to get the top daily vp gainers during that 2 months and compare how many kills they got on the days they got the top plexing spot.

Do you have that information?

If not I think its fair to assume that the methods that work under the exact same mechanics worked a month earlier. Nothing changed.

Perhaps we can ask ccp for this information. And we can see how many kills the top vp gainers got on the days the got the top vps.

Facts seem not to effect your views in the least, so I doubt you are interested.

But for those few who are interested in facts about sov is won under the same exact mechanics, I posted the best facts we have available.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#180 - 2013-02-18 17:15:13 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Are the mechanics the same or not?

The mechanics are the same. The effort involved by those who took all the systems is not.