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Possible Winter 2011 changes (Exact stats)

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MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#141 - 2011-10-25 19:35:51 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
Zagam wrote:
Shadowsword wrote:
I like the new BC stats. They look like usefull ships, while not making tier2 BC obsoletes. Because with their low HP, a Tornado isn't going to kill a Hurricane 1v1. Quite the contrary.

But with their stats, maybe "heavy cruiser" is more accurate than "battlecruiser" as a class name.

I think it would be too quick to say if a Tornado could kill a Hurricane or not. The cane has a better tank, but the Tornado will have a much better dps. Its basically going to boil down to the fit, and the dynamics of the fight itself.


other than the fact that large guns have a problem hitting a hurricane

*edit: my button is broken :(*

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
tika te
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#142 - 2011-10-25 19:36:42 UTC  |  Edited by: tika te
the problem with blasters is not their cap usage or their cpu need, but tracking and ridculous low range.
in todays eve warfare, fights below 10km only happen with frigs...deimos should be able to hit at least 12-20km, not below 10km..
large blaster with optimals way below 20km..well..bs are simply to slow (even with agility boost) to compensate that; a hyperion
with neutrons and lead ammo has about 10km optimal + falloff and speed/agility of cotton wool... 50-100m/s more topspeed with mwd won't make any real difference here.
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#143 - 2011-10-25 19:46:46 UTC
Shadowsword wrote:
I like the new BC stats. They look like usefull ships, while not making tier2 BC obsoletes. Because with their low HP, a Tornado isn't going to kill a Hurricane 1v1. Quite the contrary.

But with their stats, maybe "heavy cruiser" is more accurate than "battlecruiser" as a class name.


More like pocket battleship like the Graf Spee
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#144 - 2011-10-25 19:47:29 UTC
Tippia wrote:
NoLimit Soldier wrote:
Shut up and take my money CCP.
^^ It's really this simple.


Indeed it is.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#145 - 2011-10-25 19:52:51 UTC
starting gall bs 5, followed by large hybrid 5. tis a good day.
XavierVE
No Corporation for Old Spacemen
#146 - 2011-10-25 19:55:23 UTC
WTB: time travel machine, slightly used is fine.

"Winter" can't come soon enough :(
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#147 - 2011-10-25 19:56:22 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
Hungry Eyes wrote:
starting gall bs 5, followed by large hybrid 5. tis a good day.


<---Not regretting training hybrids to max a couple years ago now. ;)

XavierVE wrote:
WTB: time travel machine, slightly used is fine.

"Winter" can't come soon enough :(


Just try the plan Cartman had in the SP episode where he had butters freeze him so he would wake up after the new Nintendo was released.
Xorth Adimus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#148 - 2011-10-25 19:56:42 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Zagam wrote:
Shadowsword wrote:
I like the new BC stats. They look like usefull ships, while not making tier2 BC obsoletes. Because with their low HP, a Tornado isn't going to kill a Hurricane 1v1. Quite the contrary.

But with their stats, maybe "heavy cruiser" is more accurate than "battlecruiser" as a class name.

I think it would be too quick to say if a Tornado could kill a Hurricane or not. The cane has a better tank, but the Tornado will have a much better dps. Its basically going to boil down to the fit, and the dynamics of the fight itself.


other than the fat that large guns have a problem hitting a hurricane


Take a well fit 30 man battlecruiser fleet up against a well fit 20 man nanotempest fleet, your BC fleet is going to get raped, large autocannons have no problem at all hitting those fat BC hulls.. but the tier3 BC hulls are indeed smaller and potentially faster with high DPS..

In other news ... All hail the Tornado the new god of nanopvp!

Quite interested in the nano possibilities with the other new BCs too..


With hybrids I'd like to see a range of new ammo bonuses (tracking/ optimal) for the middle of the range unused ammos, like CCP did with projectiles:

-Spike lead and AM are the only general ammo most people use for rails.

-For blasters its null or AM.

Doesn't seem right.
Killstealing
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#149 - 2011-10-25 19:57:33 UTC
easier pos shooting woop
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#150 - 2011-10-25 19:59:04 UTC
One area where these new BC will be useful is in wormhole POS shooting.

It has always been an issue to get enough BS through without collapsing the entrance/exit when moving to reinforce a WH pos.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#151 - 2011-10-25 20:02:00 UTC
JC Anderson wrote:
One area where these new BC will be useful is in wormhole POS shooting.

It has always been an issue to get enough BS through without collapsing the entrance/exit when moving to reinforce a WH pos.


Of course... the pos guns will rip one apart however where a BS could survive.

I think they actually put some good thought into balancing them to be honest.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#152 - 2011-10-25 20:05:49 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
I think they actually put some good thought into balancing them to be honest.


Thats shocking isn't it? ;)
Aamrr
#153 - 2011-10-25 20:11:41 UTC
I'm concerned that the new Oracle BC isn't getting a damage bonus. The Tornado will be getting 10.67 effective hardpoints with its RoF bonus -- the Oracle will be stuck with 8.0.

5% Damage bonus per level? Please don't give us another apocalypse. =\
Sable Blitzmann
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#154 - 2011-10-25 20:30:44 UTC
I'm interested in the new t2 probe launchers... they now have 5% scan strength, same as the Sisters variety. What makes the sisters worth 40mil over the new t2 one, which will be around the 1 mil mark presumably?
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#155 - 2011-10-25 20:46:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
All I saw was the new Meta 6 warp disruptor that gets an extra 20k range when overheated.

42km long point + Tech 2 Skirmish warfare links = Winmatar!!

Edit - i think i blew my load too soon...pretty sure 20 modifier means 20%. :(

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
#156 - 2011-10-25 20:47:48 UTC
I really hope the tornado is viable over the tengue for WH PvE.

In a shield fleet of RR tengue's with the new ship have the tank required for class 5+ that the tengu's run?

Or is the tengu still the only real option?
Soporo
#157 - 2011-10-25 20:49:58 UTC
I'll be glad to finally change my best ranged Ferox fit from Projectiles to the ship bonused Rails. Smile

Might try the Eagle again, even. Lol

Another torp shooter without an explosion radius bonus ... meh. Capital/POS work is right. Ugh

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken
Daedalus Arcova
The Scope
#158 - 2011-10-25 20:50:06 UTC
Sable Blitzmann wrote:
I'm interested in the new t2 probe launchers... they now have 5% scan strength, same as the Sisters variety. What makes the sisters worth 40mil over the new t2 one, which will be around the 1 mil mark presumably?


CPU need.
Dare Devel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#159 - 2011-10-25 20:54:00 UTC
Wacktopia wrote:
Dare Devel wrote:
Calapine wrote:
Zagam wrote:

Blasters biggest issue wasn't the damage, it was even hitting the target (your effective range was tanked due to the bad tracking)..


Even in a world where tracking is not an issue the very small "on paper" DPS advantage blasters have over a weapons system as, lets say, pulse lasers doesn't outweigh the downsides of minuscule range. Not to mention there isn't even a theoretical DPS lead when using any ammo but antimatter.

Outside a few select choice scenarios (docking games, 1vs1, etc..) the few percent of extra damage blasters do isn't worth giving up the benefit of range and versatility of instant ammo switches. In most cases it's better to cause 100% damage right after lock on, instead of 110% damage after slow-boating into range for half a minute.

And that's before the tracking issues you rightly mentioned come into play. In short: tracking buff, yes, but don't stop there.

Cala


Large Neutron blaster Range with NULL is still below 30 KM (without additional mods)
---> easily kitable

Hybrid T2 Ammo (both types) still retains the negative tracking attribute (-25%)

Hybrid ammo volume still the same

Sad


Power and CPU is right down though so you can fit bigger guns that will have a bit more range and damage so it is effectively a damage and range buf also.

Fit bigger guns ?
Neutron Blaster is THE largest blaster gun Shocked

I do understand that this is not an official release of hybrid balancing. I would think that the "most requested" hybrid balancing MUST contain...
1) Range correction inline with autocannon and pulse (if I would suggest 60% base optimal increase and 70% base falloff increase)
2) Remove Tracking penalties from T2 blaster ammo since they directly affect DPS.
3) Reduce the volume of ammo by 50% so that 2x qty of ammo charges can be loaded at a time.
4) Cap consumption reduction of hybrids by at least 40%.

If any of the above are missing then hybrid will remain uncompetitive against other short range platforms.
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#160 - 2011-10-25 20:54:47 UTC
E man Industries wrote:
I really hope the tornado is viable over the tengue for WH PvE.

In a shield fleet of RR tengue's with the new ship have the tank required for class 5+ that the tengu's run?

Or is the tengu still the only real option?

Umm, the Tornado is Tier 3, not Tech 3. It's not even remotely related to the logis.

It has way more damage than say a Hurricane, but half the tank. Would you take a half tank Hurricane into a Class 5+?