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SKill Completion Imminent
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Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#1 - 2013-02-04 17:51:20 UTC
I've been timing the time it takes for a skill to finish on my character. Not in the x days y hours z seconds til completion; but rather when the timer has finished and the skill says COMPLETION IMMINENT. Why does it take so long for my skills to complete? Do skill points continue to be gained for that skill or is it just a gap? It seems to be taking longer and longer for the skill to actually update as time goes on. Is this a bug or some kind of lag?
Whitehound
#2 - 2013-02-04 18:11:47 UTC
When did you clean your cache the last time? Has it been a while?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Demolishar
United Aggression
#3 - 2013-02-04 18:16:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Demolishar
It's a gap and no skillpoints are received. Sue CCP. I know I will! I've already lost the equivalent of level 3 in a rank 1 skill in wasted time due to this OUTRAGE!
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#4 - 2013-02-04 18:16:54 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
When did you clean your cache the last time? Has it been a while?



hmm that may be it. i'll clear it when advanced weapon upgrades 5 finishes in 25 days and then i'll be able to see if that's the case.
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#5 - 2013-02-04 18:18:02 UTC
Demolishar wrote:
It's a gap and no skillpoints are received. Sue CCP.


Well I'm just wondering, with how many times this happens and if you calculate the time intervals between the 0 and when the next skill starts. that could easily add up to almost a million sp after a few years.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#6 - 2013-02-04 18:34:21 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
DAM U CCP! Y U STEAL 10 SECONDS OF XTRA TRAINING TIME?!?!?!


Fixed the op.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Demolishar
United Aggression
#7 - 2013-02-04 18:57:14 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
Demolishar wrote:
It's a gap and no skillpoints are received. Sue CCP.


Well I'm just wondering, with how many times this happens and if you calculate the time intervals between the 0 and when the next skill starts. that could easily add up to almost a million sp after a few hundred years.


EFA
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#8 - 2013-02-04 18:57:38 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
Demolishar wrote:
It's a gap and no skillpoints are received. Sue CCP.


Well I'm just wondering, with how many times this happens and if you calculate the time intervals between the 0 and when the next skill starts. that could easily add up to almost a couple hundred sp after a few years.


/fixed
Caldari Citizen 20120308
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-02-04 19:00:19 UTC
Just mail your SP to new players.
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
#10 - 2013-02-04 19:25:17 UTC
If you're OCD about it you can just log when a skill is about to complete.
Dr No Game
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#11 - 2013-02-04 20:50:54 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
I've been timing the time it takes for a skill to finish on my character. Not in the x days y hours z seconds til completion; but rather when the timer has finished and the skill says COMPLETION IMMINENT. Why does it take so long for my skills to complete? Do skill points continue to be gained for that skill or is it just a gap? It seems to be taking longer and longer for the skill to actually update as time goes on. Is this a bug or some kind of lag?

Good question, I actually noticed this the other day. It isn't a lot of time but there is definitely more than one second going from 1 - Imminent - Completed. I assumed that CCP is tracking the SP accurately on their end, but after the recent jumpclone glitch reimbursement I'm not too sure. I noticed this the other day when Evemon indicated I'd just completed a skill, but when I alt-tabbed over to the client it was still a few seconds away from completion.
Bobo Cindekela
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-02-05 09:13:03 UTC
I think it only displays completion imminent to bust the chops of ocd sperglords, while it is applying the time to the next skill

it only does it if you watch it complete.

You are about to engage in an arguement with a forum alt,  this is your final warning.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#13 - 2013-02-05 10:12:05 UTC
CCP: masters of suspense.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-02-05 11:38:18 UTC
I'll try to answer because I made a post about skill training time, and was given a pretty good response by CCP.


In the server farm, there is one server that just maintains everyone's character data.

In the database there is a table indexed on time.

You press submit on the training queue, and your client tells that one server that maintains all the character info what skills you want to train. That server calculates all the completion times on all the skills and puts them in that database table with the completion time.

On that server that maintains all character data, there is a training queue monitoring process. It compares current time to the records in the database queue, and if any are due to complete, it processes them and updates your character info. IF NO records in that table are ready to process, then that queue manager goes to sleep for a few seconds to let the other processes on that server have some CPU time.

When the sleep time is over, it wakes up, completes any skills that should have completed while it was asleep, then... yes, goes to sleep again.

SO, If I hit submit, and one skill should complete at 12:01:01 and the next should complete at 12:21:01. As 12:01:00, the queue manager goes to sleep for 10 seconds. When it wakes up at 12:01:10, it sees my first skill's complete time is past, so updates my character with that skill. The fact that skill completed 9 seconds late in no way effects the fact that the queue says my second skill is scheduled to finish at 12:21:01.


That process that calculates the completion time, and puts them in the DB? Well, if it sees that you had a skill in the database table that you no longer have there, then it calculates the time from now until its scheduled completion, calculates a % complete, and throws it into another table of your partially trained. When you put that skill back into queue, it pulls it out of partially trained and uses that info to compute the correct complete time.


Finally, this "completion time" is based on your current attributes. SO, before you can change attributes, you have to pause queue, pulling everything out of the queue database table into partially trained. Then you adjust your attribs (remap or implants) and submit your queue again. Now the new attribs are used to calculate the completion times.


SO, even if you skill is scheduled to complete during down time, the next skill in the queue will complete on time.

On those upgrade days, players tend to pull all the small skills out of the queue, and just have one really long skil in there, in fear that if the system is still down when those small skills finish, the longer one at the end of the queue won't start training until the server is back up. This is incorrect. The completion time of the furthest our skill in the queue is unaffected by server downtime because that completion time in the database table is safely stored to hard disk and does not change when the server comes back up.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-02-05 11:45:37 UTC  |  Edited by: LHA Tarawa
Bobo Cindekela wrote:
I think it only displays completion imminent to bust the chops of ocd sperglords, while it is applying the time to the next skill

it only does it if you watch it complete.



Your client has a timer that it expects to receive a message from the server that your skill is complete. There is no constant communication between the client and the server on that timer. When the timer on the client hits 0, it switches to the "imminent" message. But, that is just client side. Server side, the training of the next skill has already begun, and the server is the boss.

No calculation of the next complete time is done at the time one skill completes. It is all calculated when you hit submit on the training queue window. (Well, milliseconds later when the server processes the submitted training queue update request.)
Lysanne Reqetta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-02-05 15:02:41 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
I'll try to answer because I made a post about skill training time, and was given a pretty good response by CCP.


In the server farm, there is one server that just maintains everyone's character data.

In the database there is a table indexed on time.

You press submit on the training queue, and your client tells that one server that maintains all the character info what skills you want to train. That server calculates all the completion times on all the skills and puts them in that database table with the completion time.

On that server that maintains all character data, there is a training queue monitoring process. It compares current time to the records in the database queue, and if any are due to complete, it processes them and updates your character info. IF NO records in that table are ready to process, then that queue manager goes to sleep for a few seconds to let the other processes on that server have some CPU time.

When the sleep time is over, it wakes up, completes any skills that should have completed while it was asleep, then... yes, goes to sleep again.

SO, If I hit submit, and one skill should complete at 12:01:01 and the next should complete at 12:21:01. As 12:01:00, the queue manager goes to sleep for 10 seconds. When it wakes up at 12:01:10, it sees my first skill's complete time is past, so updates my character with that skill. The fact that skill completed 9 seconds late in no way effects the fact that the queue says my second skill is scheduled to finish at 12:21:01.


That process that calculates the completion time, and puts them in the DB? Well, if it sees that you had a skill in the database table that you no longer have there, then it calculates the time from now until its scheduled completion, calculates a % complete, and throws it into another table of your partially trained. When you put that skill back into queue, it pulls it out of partially trained and uses that info to compute the correct complete time.


Finally, this "completion time" is based on your current attributes. SO, before you can change attributes, you have to pause queue, pulling everything out of the queue database table into partially trained. Then you adjust your attribs (remap or implants) and submit your queue again. Now the new attribs are used to calculate the completion times.


SO, even if you skill is scheduled to complete during down time, the next skill in the queue will complete on time.

On those upgrade days, players tend to pull all the small skills out of the queue, and just have one really long skil in there, in fear that if the system is still down when those small skills finish, the longer one at the end of the queue won't start training until the server is back up. This is incorrect. The completion time of the furthest our skill in the queue is unaffected by server downtime because that completion time in the database table is safely stored to hard disk and does not change when the server comes back up.



Dear god
this is the most helpful and well-explained post I've seen in months. What's happening to the forums?!

Blatant alt posting? In my EVE? It's more likely than you think.

NEVER FORGET - NOVEMBER 2013 - THE GREAT SIGNATURE MASSACRE
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#17 - 2013-02-05 15:37:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Erm......there was already a GD Discussion about this issue less than 2 weeks ago.

It is an acknowledged BUG and being worked on. Unfortunately I cannot paste in the comments from my Bug Report obviously.

I myself lost at least 12 hours of Training time before this was noticed.


Edit: Linkage

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-02-05 15:39:16 UTC
Lysanne Reqetta wrote:

Dear god
this is the most helpful and well-explained post I've seen in months. What's happening to the forums?!



Sorry.

I'll try again.


Stop watching the sp timer, and stop playing EVE wrong*! Get in a ship and come to lowsex so I can pop, then pod ya.


* Wrong = any way that doesn't involve being an easy kill for me to grow my epeen. If you are in a blob = wrong. If you watch local and safe up = wrong. If you refuse to undock during a war, or move1 to NPC corp to avoid war = wrong. If you own a mining barge = wrong.

LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-02-05 15:42:14 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Erm......there was already a GD Discussion about this issue less than 2 weeks ago.

It is an acknowledged BUG and being worked on. Unfortunately I cannot paste in the comments from my Bug Report obviously.

I myself lost at least 12 hours of Training time before this was noticed.


Edit: Linkage



There may be a bug in how completion time is calculated. That does not mean that the completion time does not get calculated at the time you submit the skills.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#20 - 2013-02-05 15:44:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
LHA Tarawa wrote:



There IS a bug in how completion time is calculated. That does not mean that the completion time does not get calculated at the time you submit the skills.



Fixed it fer ya.


edit: Also, my first incident happened with this around 12/10. Never before even once in 3 years of gametime. It came with the Retribution patch.

Happened a 2nd time in January.

Obviously still not fixed.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
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