These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

The Current Warzone. Apathy Kills.

Author
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
United Caldari Space Command.
#1 - 2013-02-04 22:36:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Deen Wispa
A really good article I wanted to share that partly explains the momentum shift to Caldari/Amarr.

http://themittani.com/features/apathy-swings-pendulum

I especially liked the psychology concept that was covered; "The Diffusion of Responsibility"

Quote:
This problem is compounded by the vermin I described in my (now slightly prophetic) previous piece. The plex farmers and plex leechers benefit greatly from a higher tier, however that benefit is diminished if they actually pay into the system to maintain it. Instead they rely on a few workhorse groups within the militia to fight over, take, and pump LP into systems so that they can stay fat and happy. The people who benefit the most are those who provide the least for others. This causes a natural fracture point as those who fight for control are driven towards anger and apathy. In psychology they call this The Diffusion of Responsibility: in a system where anyone can contribute towards success, but no one is accounted for it, very few will step up and bear the weight of the many.


Many individuals in Frogland have wondered why Gallente have slipped to T2 WZ Ctrl when they can so easily hold T3. I will certainly give credit to corps like Liandri and Templis who have plexed their minds out. After some private conversations and emails, I believe there is a certain apathy that many of the workhorse corps/individuals have in Gallente. They no longer wish to carry the load for warzone control. I can't blame them.

A few individuals have tried rallying the troops to hold T3 but it seems no one really cares. I hope we do not slip into T1 because it will be a major uphill climb and have adverse affects on recruitment drives and attracting new blood. Many of the corps who rely on new players will suffer major attrition. Long time vets can sustain themselves but the newer players will suffer the most.

It's time for new blood to take over.

In the end, it's nice to see new blood entering on all sides. It seems every militia now has over 4K players in it and that's hopefully alot more pew and player driven content.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .

Ashterothi
The Order of Thelemic Ascension
The Invited
#2 - 2013-02-04 23:29:51 UTC
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#3 - 2013-02-05 00:39:46 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Deen Wispa wrote:
A few individuals have tried rallying the troops to hold T3 but it seems no one really cares. I hope we do not slip into T1 because it will be a major uphill climb and have adverse affects on recruitment drives and attracting new blood.


When Caldari were at T1, I didn't see it as a huge deal, and I still don't see it as one if Gallente slip to T1. Personally, I'm quite happy with T1 for a while, it will let the millions of LP I have stored rise in value. T1 still makes ISK, it's not like the penalty we used to have with ISK price increases.

Even if we slip into T1, getting back to T2 is pretty easy when people care to push for it again. The Caldari have an easier time getting large alliance recruits since Caldari is such a popular mission running race (meaning their rebound from T1 isn't something that would happen as easily on the Gallente side), but even at T1 the ISK still flows, you can make enough to pvp.

Personally - I pushed for occupancy, we got all the systems, I was very happy to stop that effort as soon as the 24 hour mark passed.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#4 - 2013-02-05 01:52:56 UTC
I'm not here to post anything constructive.

I just wanna talk about Deens new hair do.



X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#5 - 2013-02-05 02:08:03 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
I'm not here to post anything constructive.
I just wanna talk about Deens new hair do.
Uggh. Looks like a lesbian Princess Nexxalla wannabe.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#6 - 2013-02-05 03:22:44 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
I'm not here to post anything constructive.
I just wanna talk about Deens new hair do.
Uggh. Looks like a lesbian Princess Nexxalla wannabe.


I was thinking it was a bit Nexx like too - I was wondering if the poverty of Tier2 means Gallente toons are getting crappier hair cuts to reflect their dive into poverty.

Now I know why all the overpriced crap I put on the market in Eha hasn't sold. Too busy spending all your isk on hair cuts.


X Gal - Plz dude - It's been a few months now and It's time to put ur goggles back on.

Am I the only Caldari not banned from the forums? Big smile






chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#7 - 2013-02-05 06:01:12 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
Am I the only Caldari not banned from the forums? Big smile




I lol'd :D

I was going to put down Hidden Snake, but he's not even Caldari :)
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#8 - 2013-02-05 06:34:26 UTC
of course. Amarr could have tier 4 already for over a week, its not like there are not enough systems, its because they are not maxed out. Its this a bad thing? I am not sure or at least i personally don't care much about the tier as long its not tier1. Plexing isn't very exciting, donating stuff just to be able to plex for more lp isn't very encouraging for the individual. (Sometimes i get the impression that very few in FW outside the core corps actually know when the next tier can be actually reached or not - but this is primarily a UI issue)

FW is probably more interesting when both factions are in a balanced state, which would be between tier 2 and 3. This has the least maintenance overhead and allows good isk making for pvp (for those who are here for the explosions at least). If it runs out of balance all the farming starts and ... well putting it back to balance is a lot of pve effort from the weaker side.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#9 - 2013-02-05 08:43:36 UTC
Deen Wispa wrote:
....

Or like all aspiring and established shrinks/mindbenders/"psychologist" the whole thing is a desperate reach for relevancy by a practitioner of a pseudo-science that does so want to be considered a 'real boy'.

Allow me to explain the shifts, by using old-school common sense without the same claim of relevancy by quoting that which is not quite a science:
In FW, the few earnest can easily hold up the many leeches, LP generated is more than sufficient to counter the silly 'diminishing returns' that CCP were so proud to include.
Gallente stopped because their balls fell off from being denied the exercise appropriate to keep those marvellous products of evolution in tip-top shape .. if one wants/needs to fight in a war in order to prove oneself, yet can only find wooden ducks in a tent the interest in said war wanes. It is a simple matter of "not what it said on the tin"

Flip that for the Shakorites. They didn't want conflict or the feeling of having to do anything to get 'their due'. Years of having the vast majority of systems in play hidden behind a bottleneck and thus "safe" without having to do a damn thing, benefiting from a much healthier market due to being better situated in relation to hub and enjoying a steady, high demand for their product due to trending FoTY/Winmatar made them into what is (in less polite society) called 'sponges'.
Tiericide has proven devastating for their market value as Winmatar is being whittled away, the previously safe 'Corn fields of Iowa' (far from border, get it? Smile) are anything but and their healthy markets are lost to them in accordance with rules regarding docking rights.

-Or-

The Caldari/Amarr farmhand hunters became too much of a nuisance and started carrying too many points for the alt horde to make ISK hand over fist any more.

-Or-

Markets became too depressed and stockpiles of items grew too large, so farmers are merely rotating fields as is proper if ones aim is to maintain a high steady output.

Personally think has most to do with that last line. Pure greed, nothing more nothing less.
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#10 - 2013-02-05 08:59:08 UTC
The "cashout" was the worst. I got extremely tired of donating 500+k to upgrade 5 systems so the farmers could cash out...
Takanuro
Eve Faction Trade Exchange
#11 - 2013-02-05 09:36:46 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Deen Wispa wrote:
A few individuals have tried rallying the troops to hold T3 but it seems no one really cares. I hope we do not slip into T1 because it will be a major uphill climb and have adverse affects on recruitment drives and attracting new blood.


When Caldari were at T1, I didn't see it as a huge deal, and I still don't see it as one if Gallente slip to T1. Personally, I'm quite happy with T1 for a while, it will let the millions of LP I have stored rise in value. T1 still makes ISK, it's not like the penalty we used to have with ISK price increases.

Even if we slip into T1, getting back to T2 is pretty easy when people care to push for it again. The Caldari have an easier time getting large alliance recruits since Caldari is such a popular mission running race (meaning their rebound from T1 isn't something that would happen as easily on the Gallente side), but even at T1 the ISK still flows, you can make enough to pvp.

Personally - I pushed for occupancy, we got all the systems, I was very happy to stop that effort as soon as the 24 hour mark passed.


The turning of the tides is interesting. Down here in Amarr space, when we hit T3 with a comfortable margin it suddenly became almost impossible to get the militia to bash any hubs that became vulnerable. There are two system that's minnies now have defended into the 70's that we did have vulnerable.

On hitting T3 it seems many just went into mission carebearing mode or had plexing fatigue from the effort it took to flip 25+ systems during that time we had the upper hand in the WZ.

Minnies are now outplexing us daily and have flipped 5 systems without us a having a flip response. Will be interesting if we take Hof today, or it might be another 5 flips by the minnies without a response from us. Will be interesting to see what happens if/when we are pushed back into a T2 only position.

Yes, we're going to die, but you're coming with us!

The RUS Hunter
Mr. Clean Corp..
#12 - 2013-02-05 10:08:53 UTC
Dread Operative wrote:
The "cashout" was the worst. I got extremely tired of donating 500+k to upgrade 5 systems so the farmers could cash out...


It was really funny being in SLAPD and hearing all the general miltia ask for dumps when we were hoarding LP and crashing markets.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#13 - 2013-02-05 10:28:49 UTC
So basically CCP did a good job in rebalancing FW by creating a pendulum which always swings back and forth.
Commissar Veldt
Progressive State
#14 - 2013-02-05 11:22:14 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
I'm not here to post anything constructive.
I just wanna talk about Deens new hair do.
Uggh. Looks like a lesbian Princess Nexxalla wannabe.


Nexxalla's lesbian twin? Mmmmm... **Commissar Veldt foams at the mouth and goes all weak at the knees**

Some good points in that link and in OP. Good to see some FW forum action which doesnt involve the usual b*llocks 'we iz b3tter thn Urz mil1tiazzzzzzz!!!!11111 U iz allllll farm3rzzzzzzztrofltrofl'

I suspect the Cal/Gal warzone will settle and stop shifting soon and we will get back to some kind of equilibrium (at least the closest thing you can get to that in FW). Meaning both factions will have well established home systems, clearly defined borders for warzones etc...

At least thats what I keep telling myself.
Commissar Veldt
Progressive State
#15 - 2013-02-05 11:25:49 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:


Markets became too depressed and stockpiles of items grew too large, so farmers are merely rotating fields as is proper if ones aim is to maintain a high steady output.


Or just this Big smile
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-02-05 12:32:34 UTC
Meditril wrote:
So basically CCP did a good job in rebalancing FW by creating a pendulum which always swings back and forth.


No, a pendulum system is terrible because it means that no side can really win, so there's literally no reason whatsoever for anyone but the farmers to want one side to get a higher tier level than the other.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#17 - 2013-02-05 13:32:27 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Meditril wrote:
So basically CCP did a good job in rebalancing FW by creating a pendulum which always swings back and forth.


No, a pendulum system is terrible because it means that no side can really win, so there's literally no reason whatsoever for anyone but the farmers to want one side to get a higher tier level than the other.


This is a game which is intended to never end. Therefore it has to be impossible for any side to win, otherwise the game would end. What in your opinion should happen when one side completely conquers all enemy FW systems and achieves Tier 5? Should faction warefare end for those two? No, one faction gets a medal that's all. Then people get bored and go somewhere else until after some time a new generation will spawn which will go for it. And the cycle of life will start over again.
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#18 - 2013-02-05 14:51:20 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
I'm not here to post anything constructive.
I just wanna talk about Deens new hair do.
Uggh. Looks like a lesbian Princess Nexxalla wannabe.


I was thinking it was a bit Nexx like too - I was wondering if the poverty of Tier2 means Gallente toons are getting crappier hair cuts to reflect their dive into poverty.

Now I know why all the overpriced crap I put on the market in Eha hasn't sold. Too busy spending all your isk on hair cuts.


X Gal - Plz dude - It's been a few months now and It's time to put ur goggles back on.

Am I the only Caldari not banned from the forums? Big smile








You need to increase your butthurt level by about 37 grades of butthurtery before you can achieve banned status.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#19 - 2013-02-05 15:48:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Nexxala
Damn girl! That's some sexy hair!

nom nom

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#20 - 2013-02-05 18:26:58 UTC
Takanuro wrote:
On hitting T3 it seems many just went into mission carebearing mode or had plexing fatigue from the effort it took to flip 25+ systems during that time we had the upper hand in the WZ.



I think plexing fatigue will be the balancing factor in the long run, no matter which side.
123Next pageLast page