EVE General Discussion

Null sec is no longer the wild frontier though. It is as settled, civilized and well governed as most 1rst world countries. The lack of competitive indy slots is whats holding them back. Currently I'm out in NPC null now and there's only 2 slots in system. I would rather see indy slots moved to be part of PI, then everyone would have equal access and highsec industrialists would have the added risk of moving material from station to PCO.

Re the ISK disparity; The greater concentration of liquid ISK out in null will create localized inflation, but transportation costs might make it worth while to produce on site anyway, maybe with a pirate buff thrown in to up that price a bit. All combined with Mara's thoughts on reworking ore processing And maybe implementing null super veld*. would really go a long way towards straightening things out, and if its not enough then there's always the woodshed!

*Funny, seems like we just got rid of gun mining in null.

You said "the significant majority" of the value of "T2 Items" came from Nullsec.

I went with various items I've recently invented for profit (and the Nomad).

You're going for T2 rigs which are the most dominated by material costs and have nothing to do with your original thesis which was related to Moon goo. T2 rigs use *drumroll* absolutely 0 Moon Goo or High end minerals.

If you're going to accuse me of cherry picking, umm...


Yes, Alliance income has to be altered to being bottom up. Your further claim that Nullsec's primary income should be resource gathering simply does not follow from that premise, nor does it bear any relation to CCP's own goals for Nullsec.

Your comparison to RL simply fails because this is a GAME, where Nullsec is intended (by CCP) to be the more naturally rewarding of the k-space zones on the principle that Higher Risk brings with it Higher Reward. At the moment, Nullsec industry is Higher Risk, higher Cost, lower Volume, and less rewarding. See how that might be a teensy bit broken?

My point is that null-sec already has the higher reward and in bucket loads. The ISK sloshing around null-sec affords ship replacement programs for gods sake - free ships!!!. How much more ISK is needed?

It seems people want more and more and more until null has the best of every single part of the game. Break everything else and be done with it. It's a horrible, childish and selfish argument. Null has the ISK already. It doesn't need most of industry to driven to null on top of everything else.

Risk reward is just an insult to my intelligence. You have something of value in hi-sec in space and you are highly likely to attract attention of someone who wants to gank you or war dec you for it. Hi sec is safe only for new or casual players with little of value. Contrast that with a virtually empty null region, surrounded by blues, there are clearly places in null which are lower risk than high.

Even having said that I am still happy for null to carry reward. But that balance is already built in the game, what many people are demanding on the forums is utter imbalance.

Many people? Oh, you mean like CCP?
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=946

You'll notice under Industry, they say:
-99% Self sufficient by volume
-Geared towards T2 > Lucrative, Motivational, Requires Investment
-Accessible to all in small volumes

That does not sound like they're talking about "Moon Goo should be mined by individuals," especially as CCP generally (and on the whiteboard) regards resource gathering as a separate and distinct activity from Industry (which means, primarily, manufacturing).

And no, we're not asking for imbalance in industry. At the moment, HS has literally everything stacked in its favor.
Absurdly Low Cost logistics
Free Manufacturing slots (Go ahead, try to claim that manufacturing slot costs are in any way significant. I put 18 Billion ISK worth of Cruisers into build and it cost me under 4 million ISK.)
Enormous volumes of manufacturing slots
No Investment required to get those multitudes of free manufacturing slots.
No chance of being locked out
No chance of having your jobs cancelled by invaders (or needing to cancel them to retrieve the BPO)
Largely Safe POSes

Nullsec gets
High Logistics Costs
Low Logistics Volume
Requires a POS to manufacture in any volume (means High slot cost) due to next point
Very few Outpost manufacturing slots (one system in the forge has more manufacturing slots than any nullsec region)
ENORMOUS investment to get those piddling few manufacturing slots.
A chance of being locked out
A chance of having your jobs cancelled (or needing to cancel them to retrieve the BPO)
Far less safe POSes

Name one way that Nullsec industry (a term which does not include resource gathering) has a competitive advantage over HS.


Oh, and from here:

then maybe you will say that supercarriers and titans OP too?

(you have no money -> you can't buy one -> their owners are "given by iWin button")

Any time you mention T2 BPO, you may as well not have anything else in the post as it will dominate the conversation.

Rather than remove T2BPO, I think they should fix invention. Let people invent and research T2 BPOs.

First, remove the remaining loot from rat drops, to be replaced by scrap that actually refines into minerals worth picking up. Not Drone drop issue again, but some mins more than the current scrap.

Then, have ALL items on the market M0-M5 have been manufactured by players. You buy a M0 BPO off the market, then research it up through the levels via invention.

Say, each level requires twice as many datacores as the previous. for small say 10 of each type for M0->M1, then 20 to M2, 40 to M3, 80 to M4, and 160 to M5. For medium, 50 of each. For large 100 of each.

Then have something like a 1-10% chance of success based on the size of the item. 10% for frig/small 5% for Cruiser/BC medium, 1% for BS/large.

At 200K ISK per datacore, at 10% success rate, the average cost of getting a frig/small M1 BPO would be 200K * 2 * 10 * 10 = 40 million ISK. Then another 80 million ISK to get that to M2 for a total of 120 million ISK. Then 160 million to M3 = 280 million total. M4 would be, on average, another 320 million, or 600 million total for the top named BPO. Finally, you'd need, on average, another 640 million, for a total of 1,240 million ISK to research a T2 BPO.... PLUS POS fuel for the lab time.

Medium would be M1 = 200K * 2 * 100 *100 =

Large would be, on average, 4 billion for an M1 BPO. 12B for M2, 28B for M3, 60B for M4 and 128B for T2 + lab fees.

Keep the old invention methods in place to continue to provide supply until all the mega indy corps have created a pretty decent set of BPOs.

The price of datacores could be somewhat moderated short term by letting people buy them with LP. On the longer term, to set a floor under datacore prices after everyone has a set of invented BPOs, datacores could be required for for, say, building POS parts or maybe even T2 component or capital ship components.

I just don't see anything wrong with the current probing system. It takes a lot of practice to get good at ti, but now I can scan down something in just a minute or so.

I can scan down lost drones in under a minute, and those require lowest resolution to get to 100%.


That is how I practices scanning. I went to a big mission hub and started scanning down drones. Sometimes I got a ship in a mission, and lots of times it was just abandoned drones. Do that 1000 times, changing your methods slightly each time to see what works and what doesn't, and you get pretty good at it.


Personally, I use 6 probes. 5 in the basic plus sign, then a 6th off the plain of the others (not thinking 3D is what got me in trouble when I was first learning. A lot of times you get that ring is because only 2 probes hit it because it is above or below the plain. Having that 6th probe really helps me.

I also tend to use a large overlap than it seems many use, at least from the "how to do it" videos I watched. instead of having the probes almost to the edge of the inner probe's range, I put it no more than 1/2 to 2/3rds. Out.

I jump out to max, scan the whole system. Pick something to probe, and drop to 4, then 1, then as low as I have to go to find it.

Learning to use the shift and alt also helps A TON! If you are moving one probe at a time, as I did when I first started... ugh, that takes forever.

And then invention is no longer a viable manufacturing profession. That's a great fix.