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PVP ships and why they are good or bad?
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Hormone1971
No Forms Gone
Kenshin Shogunate.
#1 - 2013-02-04 21:37:40 UTC
I am asking the greater PVP community to help clarify some ships with their good and bad points.
This will of course be handy for me but I would put money on the fact that many others will benefit from this info.
It need not be comprehensive nor am I wanting actual fits just why XXX ship is good or bad.
Eg: The Slasher is great solo as its fast with great tank (example only, no idea if that is true or false)

Amarr Frigs
Caldari Frigs
Gallente Frigs
Minmatar Frigs

Amarr Desi
Caldari Desi
Gallente Desi
Minmatar Desi

Amarr Cruiser
Caldari Cruiser
Gallente Cruiser
Minmatar Cruiser

Any smark folks out there care to assist?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#2 - 2013-02-04 21:52:18 UTC
Amarr:
- Executioner: Pretty great. It's like a budget Crusader, except it has the utility high that allows it to actually brawl. It's pretty great beam fit as well.
- Slicer: Absolutely fantastic. Pulse or GTFO
- Retribution: Variation on the slicer that trades speed for tank and DPS. Fantastic.
- Coercer: Slower than the frigs but has great DPS and projection.
- Omen: I really like it. It's good for kiting, but you really can't get by without a cap booster so it's basically a 2 mid ship (no shield kiting for you).
- Arbitrator: Really a great support ship. Good for kiting, not so great for brawling.

Caldari:
- Condor: A fantastic ship for close range ganks or long range kiting. The 4 mids are simply glorious for flexibility
- Merlin: Best T1 brawler, IMO.
- Kestrel: Pretty great for punching people in the face. I kinda prefer the Condor in the end.
- Cormorant: It's really great as a sniping ship. No, really.
- Corax: The volley damage from that many light missiles is pretty mindblowing to frigates. It avoids the weakness of the Condor to small/fast ships.
- Caracal: Great kiting ship. <3 <3
- Osprey: Holy ****, amazing. Probably going to eat a nerf.

Gallente:
- Atron: It's like a cheap ****** Taranis. What's not to like? :)
- Incursus: OMFG tank. And blasters. Again, pretty great.
- Tristan: I've seen some pretty great uses of this lately. It's surprisingly handy.
- Catalyst: ZOMG DPS, and pretty good rail fit. I don't like the limited tank though.
- Algos: The drones are pretty interesting. They're delayed damage and destroyable. Be aware of your limitations.
- Comet: You know, it's a great kiting ship and the drone flexibility is really great. I've taken brawl Comets against things it should absolutely have died against and won.
- Daredevil: King Of All Frigates.
- Thorax: Really fast, great DPS. A bit light on tank but it's alright.
- Vexor: Extremely flexible, great DPS or good kiting. I've seen one brawl a Hurricane into the ground.

Minmatar:
- Thrasher: Best Destroyer
- Dramiel: Pretty ridiculous fast.
- Stabber: I like it a lot. It's fast as crap and the capless weapons are a godsend on a cap starved ship class.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#3 - 2013-02-04 22:00:43 UTC
Semi-close with the Slasher. Rather, it is fast and has TD's with decent damage projection.

Amarr:
Punisher: a solid ship, simply lacking in that it has low speed, a weak cap, poor tracking, and too few mids to fully solve any of those issues.
Executioner: Great. Fast, good damage projection and a decent slot layout make it a good ship.
Tormentor: Good ship. What the Punisher could be, but isn't. The extra mid lets you put on a web to help with tracking. It still suffers a weak cap due to the energy cost of lasers, but it also gets a couple drones and can put on a decent tank

Caldari Frigs:
Merlin: plenty of mids for lots of utility or tank. Good damage. Probably one of the most powerful T1 frigates right now. Even gives some T2's a run for their money.
Condor: a fantastic ship. Fit to kite with LML's and TD's with a MWD they can slowly whittle down almost any ship and kill them from afar. Also fast enough to disengage when the going gets tough.


Gallente Frigs:
Incursus: A solid ship, better off than the Punisher. It can mount full tackle and be a decent brawler, or if they choose to they can put on a double rep cap injected fit that is capable of tanking almost any other frigate. It gets high damage thanks to blasters and doesn't suffer in tracking. It also gets a couple of drones. Take what you will from that.

Minmatar Frigs:
Slasher: See above.
Rifter: it has fallen far from its title of only viable frigate, unless you like being at a disadvantage. Now it's the one at a disadvantage most of the time. It's a jack of all trades, but master of none. When fighting any specialized ship it will likely lose. Its only advantage is that it's versatile and you never know what you'll face when you fight one.



Amarr Dessie:
Coercer: Strong, great damage projection. It can shred an enemy at range while they try to move in, then murder the hell out of them with the pre-existing damage advantage. Scorch makes it relatively simple to have pulses shooting out to 20km, butchering anything they shoot at that range.

Caldari Dessies:
Cormorant: Good ship. Can build to snipe or kite. Fit with a prop, scram and web and kite your opponents in scram range wtih whatever you want, and you can probably win a large amount of fights. Might wanna stay away from other destroyers though. Used to be better with 4 mids. Used to be able to put a TD in the spare and DCU tank it while kiting.

Gallente Dessies:
Catalyst: Decent. Its main strength lies in suicide ganks though, sadly. It's not bad, it's just not exceptional.

Minmatar Dessies:
Thrasher: It's good. Quick, powerful and good damage projection with its AC's make it a good ship. It can also fit a powerful tank, all things considered. It is good for its alpha damage as well thanks to Artillery.

That's about the limit of my experience with the ships. Haven't messed around all too much post patch, which is sad to say.
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#4 - 2013-02-05 02:40:21 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Amarr:
- Executioner: Pretty great. It's like a budget Crusader, except it has the utility high that allows it to actually brawl. It's pretty great beam fit as well.
- Slicer: Absolutely fantastic. Pulse or GTFO
- Retribution: Variation on the slicer that trades speed for tank and DPS. Fantastic.
- Coercer: Slower than the frigs but has great DPS and projection.
- Omen: I really like it. It's good for kiting, but you really can't get by without a cap booster so it's basically a 2 mid ship (no shield kiting for you).
- Arbitrator: Really a great support ship. Good for kiting, not so great for brawling.

Caldari:
- Condor: A fantastic ship for close range ganks or long range kiting. The 4 mids are simply glorious for flexibility
- Merlin: Best T1 brawler, IMO.
- Kestrel: Pretty great for punching people in the face. I kinda prefer the Condor in the end.
- Cormorant: It's really great as a sniping ship. No, really.
- Corax: The volley damage from that many light missiles is pretty mindblowing to frigates. It avoids the weakness of the Condor to small/fast ships.
- Caracal: Great kiting ship. <3 <3
- Osprey: Holy ****, amazing. Probably going to eat a nerf.

Gallente:
- Atron: It's like a cheap ****** Taranis. What's not to like? :)
- Incursus: OMFG tank. And blasters. Again, pretty great.
- Tristan: I've seen some pretty great uses of this lately. It's surprisingly handy.
- Catalyst: ZOMG DPS, and pretty good rail fit. I don't like the limited tank though.
- Algos: The drones are pretty interesting. They're delayed damage and destroyable. Be aware of your limitations.
- Comet: You know, it's a great kiting ship and the drone flexibility is really great. I've taken brawl Comets against things it should absolutely have died against and won.
- Daredevil: King Of All Frigates.
- Thorax: Really fast, great DPS. A bit light on tank but it's alright.
- Vexor: Extremely flexible, great DPS or good kiting. I've seen one brawl a Hurricane into the ground.

Minmatar:
- Thrasher: Best Destroyer
- Dramiel: Pretty ridiculous fast.
- Stabber: I like it a lot. It's fast as crap and the capless weapons are a godsend on a cap starved ship class.

-Liang

I would also add the Rupture into that, its a good gang ship with a strong armour tank.

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#5 - 2013-02-05 03:16:53 UTC
ACE McFACE wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Amarr:
- Executioner: Pretty great. It's like a budget Crusader, except it has the utility high that allows it to actually brawl. It's pretty great beam fit as well.
- Slicer: Absolutely fantastic. Pulse or GTFO
- Retribution: Variation on the slicer that trades speed for tank and DPS. Fantastic.
- Coercer: Slower than the frigs but has great DPS and projection.
- Omen: I really like it. It's good for kiting, but you really can't get by without a cap booster so it's basically a 2 mid ship (no shield kiting for you).
- Arbitrator: Really a great support ship. Good for kiting, not so great for brawling.

Caldari:
- Condor: A fantastic ship for close range ganks or long range kiting. The 4 mids are simply glorious for flexibility
- Merlin: Best T1 brawler, IMO.
- Kestrel: Pretty great for punching people in the face. I kinda prefer the Condor in the end.
- Cormorant: It's really great as a sniping ship. No, really.
- Corax: The volley damage from that many light missiles is pretty mindblowing to frigates. It avoids the weakness of the Condor to small/fast ships.
- Caracal: Great kiting ship. <3 <3
- Osprey: Holy ****, amazing. Probably going to eat a nerf.

Gallente:
- Atron: It's like a cheap ****** Taranis. What's not to like? :)
- Incursus: OMFG tank. And blasters. Again, pretty great.
- Tristan: I've seen some pretty great uses of this lately. It's surprisingly handy.
- Catalyst: ZOMG DPS, and pretty good rail fit. I don't like the limited tank though.
- Algos: The drones are pretty interesting. They're delayed damage and destroyable. Be aware of your limitations.
- Comet: You know, it's a great kiting ship and the drone flexibility is really great. I've taken brawl Comets against things it should absolutely have died against and won.
- Daredevil: King Of All Frigates.
- Thorax: Really fast, great DPS. A bit light on tank but it's alright.
- Vexor: Extremely flexible, great DPS or good kiting. I've seen one brawl a Hurricane into the ground.

Minmatar:
- Thrasher: Best Destroyer
- Dramiel: Pretty ridiculous fast.
- Stabber: I like it a lot. It's fast as crap and the capless weapons are a godsend on a cap starved ship class.

-Liang

I would also add the Rupture into that, its a good gang ship with a strong armour tank.

Toss a Bellicose or two into a Caracal gang and reap the rewards.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#6 - 2013-02-05 03:26:08 UTC
Dibblerette wrote:

Toss a Bellicose or two into a Caracal gang and reap the rewards.


IMO the Vigil works better for that. It gives you fast tackle with a painter bonus that really helps nuke down primaries. I almost put the Bellicose and Vigil in my list but ultimately decided that they were a bit specialized and I haven't personally seen them in use.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-02-05 04:48:00 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Dibblerette wrote:

Toss a Bellicose or two into a Caracal gang and reap the rewards.


IMO the Vigil works better for that. It gives you fast tackle with a painter bonus that really helps nuke down primaries. I almost put the Bellicose and Vigil in my list but ultimately decided that they were a bit specialized and I haven't personally seen them in use.

-Liang

.
Nah, Vigil cant be repped so it is far to easy to kill. Belli has the same tank as a caracal so if that breaks your done anyways.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-02-05 08:10:51 UTC
where is my Hookbill,


If there a Daredevels and Dramiels, don't leave out the Hookbill.

Caldari Hookbill

Master Kiting ship.


5 mids.
with Dual web or Disrupter

Fear of the novice FW Plexes
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#9 - 2013-02-05 11:01:31 UTC
Arty Ruptures are very strong.

Armour Thorax gangs are a beast with Augoror support.

I <3 the Slicer.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#10 - 2013-02-05 12:43:34 UTC
Stealing Liangs setup for my own ideas \o/

Amarr:
- Executioner: Pretty decent as a scram kiter, a bit low on tank but all around a solid choice
- Slicer: Pretty good again except its very, very vaulnerable to td's and if you're in a gang having 0 projection above your optimal gets annoying
- Tormentor: Alright scramkiter, slow and bad tracking though. Tank is a bit meh as well
- Punisher, 2 midslots = shitfrig
- Retribution: Variation on the slicer that trades speed for tank and DPS <-- basically that except it also has the Coercers stupid tracking, so even if things get on top of you they are not going to sig tank you the way they sigtank a slicer.
- Coercer: Slower than the frigs but has great DPS, projection and has the tracking bonus that covers the biggest weakness of lazors.
- Omen: I really wanted to like the omen.. Bit its crippled by a ******** ROF bonus, questionable slot layout and lasers being meh. Your only real choice is kiting in it which is pretty much do or die (Since you have to fit a cap booster you can't have a web so if anything catches you they can just orbit you close and enjoy watching you shoot air)
- Maller: Can either fit a web and cap out or fit a cap booster and don't hit anything. **** for anything but silly ab fleets.
- Arbitrator: Really a decent support ship, a bit to slow to use its TD bonus properly. Well fitted it can take most turret ships 1v1 though and it can be pretty good in a gang (Although the celestis is way way way better)

Caldari:
- Condor: A fantastic ship for close range ganks or long range kiting. The 4 mids are simply glorious for flexibility <- basically that except note that the dps is **** so killing stuff takes ages.
- Merlin: Good brawler, a bit crippled by being rather slow but still good.
- Kestrel: A slower tankier condor with selectable damage types. Can also be pretty decent as a rocket brawler.
- Cormorant: Fit rails or GTFO (is in a rather strange place because of how slow it is though)
- Corax: Pretty decent both with lml's or rockets. Suffers from being slower than some combat crusiers though.
- Caracal: The best kiting cruiser by a factor of 5. Seriously nothing even comes close.
- Moa: Good tank/dps. Pretty inflexible
- Osprey: I don't care about it.

Gallente:
- Atron: Decent both for mwd kiting or brawling. At brawling it suffers from having low tank and at kiting it suffers from having low dps
- Mancursus: Fit with rails, scramkite, pvp ezmode. Best t1 brawler by a long shot imo.
- Tristan: Decent but suffers from ****** slot layout and stupid bonuses.
- Catalyst: Ehh...
- Algos: Shield fit is **** against anything that moves(Drones + no web is bad mkay?) Armor fit is quite decent if you have the brain not to use hammerheads on fast frigs.
- Comet: Pretty decent brawler but imo its best with 150 rails kiting. Imo the best "t1" kiting frigate, winning over the slicer by being able to fit a TD and having way better range and the hookbill with having much better dps.
- Daredevil: Can be a pretty good scramkiter with blasters and range rigs.. Mostly excels at being a linky ****** with faction webs and rails though
- Thorax: Really fast, great DPS. Tracking bonus means that with electrons and dual webs it munches frigs.
- Vexor: Good drone boat.. If only drones weren't so ****.
- Celestis: Best t1 ewar cruiser for a small gang, bonused damps really **** things up for people.

Minmatar:
- Thrasher: Best Destroyer
- Dramiel: Best frig for warping in at 100km and then nanofagging away at 5km/s and never wanting to fight you.
- Stabber: Overssized destroyer, dps is ****.
- Rupture: Armor fitted its still one of the best combat crusiers. Shield fitted its a bit slow compared to the new attack cruisers.
- Bellicose: Really solid ship, not as good solo as a caracal but a really good choice to bring on a kiting gang.
- Slasher: Armor/td slasher is pretty good at killing turret frigs 1v1. pretty **** at anything else though.
- Rifter: Absolute garbage, don't fly one
- Breacher: Great scramkiter with good tank and selectable damage types. If you're a real man and fit it with a normal shield booster its also really fun to juggle the cap ^^ Second only to the Incursus imo.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Ch'vonne Skjem-Apol
Hathor Federation
#11 - 2013-02-20 02:37:58 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Stealing Liangs setup for my own ideas \o/

Amarr:
- Executioner: Pretty decent as a scram kiter, a bit low on tank but all around a solid choice
- Slicer: Pretty good again except its very, very vaulnerable to td's and if you're in a gang having 0 projection above your optimal gets annoying
- Tormentor: Alright scramkiter, slow and bad tracking though. Tank is a bit meh as well
- Punisher, 2 midslots = shitfrig
- Retribution: Variation on the slicer that trades speed for tank and DPS <-- basically that except it also has the Coercers stupid tracking, so even if things get on top of you they are not going to sig tank you the way they sigtank a slicer.
- Coercer: Slower than the frigs but has great DPS, projection and has the tracking bonus that covers the biggest weakness of lazors.
- Omen: I really wanted to like the omen.. Bit its crippled by a ******** ROF bonus, questionable slot layout and lasers being meh. Your only real choice is kiting in it which is pretty much do or die (Since you have to fit a cap booster you can't have a web so if anything catches you they can just orbit you close and enjoy watching you shoot air)
- Maller: Can either fit a web and cap out or fit a cap booster and don't hit anything. **** for anything but silly ab fleets.
- Arbitrator: Really a decent support ship, a bit to slow to use its TD bonus properly. Well fitted it can take most turret ships 1v1 though and it can be pretty good in a gang (Although the celestis is way way way better)

Caldari:
- Condor: A fantastic ship for close range ganks or long range kiting. The 4 mids are simply glorious for flexibility <- basically that except note that the dps is **** so killing stuff takes ages.
- Merlin: Good brawler, a bit crippled by being rather slow but still good.
- Kestrel: A slower tankier condor with selectable damage types. Can also be pretty decent as a rocket brawler.
- Cormorant: Fit rails or GTFO (is in a rather strange place because of how slow it is though)
- Corax: Pretty decent both with lml's or rockets. Suffers from being slower than some combat crusiers though.
- Caracal: The best kiting cruiser by a factor of 5. Seriously nothing even comes close.
- Moa: Good tank/dps. Pretty inflexible
- Osprey: I don't care about it.

Gallente:
- Atron: Decent both for mwd kiting or brawling. At brawling it suffers from having low tank and at kiting it suffers from having low dps
- Mancursus: Fit with rails, scramkite, pvp ezmode. Best t1 brawler by a long shot imo.
- Tristan: Decent but suffers from ****** slot layout and stupid bonuses.
- Catalyst: Ehh...
- Algos: Shield fit is **** against anything that moves(Drones + no web is bad mkay?) Armor fit is quite decent if you have the brain not to use hammerheads on fast frigs.
- Comet: Pretty decent brawler but imo its best with 150 rails kiting. Imo the best "t1" kiting frigate, winning over the slicer by being able to fit a TD and having way better range and the hookbill with having much better dps.
- Daredevil: Can be a pretty good scramkiter with blasters and range rigs.. Mostly excels at being a linky ****** with faction webs and rails though
- Thorax: Really fast, great DPS. Tracking bonus means that with electrons and dual webs it munches frigs.
- Vexor: Good drone boat.. If only drones weren't so ****.
- Celestis: Best t1 ewar cruiser for a small gang, bonused damps really **** things up for people.

Minmatar:
- Thrasher: Best Destroyer
- Dramiel: Best frig for warping in at 100km and then nanofagging away at 5km/s and never wanting to fight you.
- Stabber: Overssized destroyer, dps is ****.
- Rupture: Armor fitted its still one of the best combat crusiers. Shield fitted its a bit slow compared to the new attack cruisers.
- Bellicose: Really solid ship, not as good solo as a caracal but a really good choice to bring on a kiting gang.
- Slasher: Armor/td slasher is pretty good at killing turret frigs 1v1. pretty **** at anything else though.
- Rifter: Absolute garbage, don't fly one
- Breacher: Great scramkiter with good tank and selectable damage types. If you're a real man and fit it with a normal shield booster its also really fun to juggle the cap ^^ Second only to the Incursus imo.


Very in-depth analysis and I'm happy to see the Comet get some love (impressed to see it rated over the beloved Slicer), but why to mention of the Firetail or Stabber Fleet Issue.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#12 - 2013-02-20 07:29:24 UTC
Ch'vonne Skjem-Apol wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Stealing Liangs setup for my own ideas \o/

Amarr:
- Executioner: Pretty decent as a scram kiter, a bit low on tank but all around a solid choice
- Slicer: Pretty good again except its very, very vaulnerable to td's and if you're in a gang having 0 projection above your optimal gets annoying
- Tormentor: Alright scramkiter, slow and bad tracking though. Tank is a bit meh as well
- Punisher, 2 midslots = shitfrig
- Retribution: Variation on the slicer that trades speed for tank and DPS <-- basically that except it also has the Coercers stupid tracking, so even if things get on top of you they are not going to sig tank you the way they sigtank a slicer.
- Coercer: Slower than the frigs but has great DPS, projection and has the tracking bonus that covers the biggest weakness of lazors.
- Omen: I really wanted to like the omen.. Bit its crippled by a ******** ROF bonus, questionable slot layout and lasers being meh. Your only real choice is kiting in it which is pretty much do or die (Since you have to fit a cap booster you can't have a web so if anything catches you they can just orbit you close and enjoy watching you shoot air)
- Maller: Can either fit a web and cap out or fit a cap booster and don't hit anything. **** for anything but silly ab fleets.
- Arbitrator: Really a decent support ship, a bit to slow to use its TD bonus properly. Well fitted it can take most turret ships 1v1 though and it can be pretty good in a gang (Although the celestis is way way way better)

Caldari:
- Condor: A fantastic ship for close range ganks or long range kiting. The 4 mids are simply glorious for flexibility <- basically that except note that the dps is **** so killing stuff takes ages.
- Merlin: Good brawler, a bit crippled by being rather slow but still good.
- Kestrel: A slower tankier condor with selectable damage types. Can also be pretty decent as a rocket brawler.
- Cormorant: Fit rails or GTFO (is in a rather strange place because of how slow it is though)
- Corax: Pretty decent both with lml's or rockets. Suffers from being slower than some combat crusiers though.
- Caracal: The best kiting cruiser by a factor of 5. Seriously nothing even comes close.
- Moa: Good tank/dps. Pretty inflexible
- Osprey: I don't care about it.

Gallente:
- Atron: Decent both for mwd kiting or brawling. At brawling it suffers from having low tank and at kiting it suffers from having low dps
- Mancursus: Fit with rails, scramkite, pvp ezmode. Best t1 brawler by a long shot imo.
- Tristan: Decent but suffers from ****** slot layout and stupid bonuses.
- Catalyst: Ehh...
- Algos: Shield fit is **** against anything that moves(Drones + no web is bad mkay?) Armor fit is quite decent if you have the brain not to use hammerheads on fast frigs.
- Comet: Pretty decent brawler but imo its best with 150 rails kiting. Imo the best "t1" kiting frigate, winning over the slicer by being able to fit a TD and having way better range and the hookbill with having much better dps.
- Daredevil: Can be a pretty good scramkiter with blasters and range rigs.. Mostly excels at being a linky ****** with faction webs and rails though
- Thorax: Really fast, great DPS. Tracking bonus means that with electrons and dual webs it munches frigs.
- Vexor: Good drone boat.. If only drones weren't so ****.
- Celestis: Best t1 ewar cruiser for a small gang, bonused damps really **** things up for people.

Minmatar:
- Thrasher: Best Destroyer
- Dramiel: Best frig for warping in at 100km and then nanofagging away at 5km/s and never wanting to fight you.
- Stabber: Overssized destroyer, dps is ****.
- Rupture: Armor fitted its still one of the best combat crusiers. Shield fitted its a bit slow compared to the new attack cruisers.
- Bellicose: Really solid ship, not as good solo as a caracal but a really good choice to bring on a kiting gang.
- Slasher: Armor/td slasher is pretty good at killing turret frigs 1v1. pretty **** at anything else though.
- Rifter: Absolute garbage, don't fly one
- Breacher: Great scramkiter with good tank and selectable damage types. If you're a real man and fit it with a normal shield booster its also really fun to juggle the cap ^^ Second only to the Incursus imo.


Very in-depth analysis and I'm happy to see the Comet get some love (impressed to see it rated over the beloved Slicer), but why to mention of the Firetail or Stabber Fleet Issue.



Firetail is a waste of isk, there is nothing you can do with one you can't do with a slasher


SFI however was an oversight seeing how its the best navy cruiser by far.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish