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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

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Hershman
Creepers Corporation
#301 - 2011-10-25 19:41:22 UTC
No, it is indeed true that most casual players are not the forumgoers you see posting here every day.

I play EVE every day! Follow me at http://www.twitch.tv/matthershman
Aston Bradley
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#302 - 2011-10-25 19:41:27 UTC
Arin Fensfield wrote:

Thanks for speaking up Aston, but I'm still about so I will answer.


NP,

but i will be honest with you, i am not agreeing on that let's wait for WiS to be finished before FiS part.

FiS needs some new content, but most importantly it needs some fixes.

CCP please fix my railguns Evil

I am still a supporter of WiS though, but not to the point that i will prefer to get WiS before some stuff in FIS get's fixed. Winter expansion is a good step in that direction.

[i]FiS should be the priority, but WiS should not be burried!

Don't encourage CCP to make empty promises or Incarna will happen again![/i]
Hershman
Creepers Corporation
#303 - 2011-10-25 19:44:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Hershman
Here's my solution: link

And yes, it is true that most players are casuals, not the everyday forumgoer type. And that is why the opinion of the vocal minority here are not the bottom line solution.

I play EVE every day! Follow me at http://www.twitch.tv/matthershman
EVE Stig
Doomheim
#304 - 2011-10-25 19:45:39 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Aston Bradley wrote:


I don't think you are trolling, and believe or not. I strongly support your theory. Still, i believe WiS a worth working on. Even if takes an other 3 years (As long as FiS content keeps coming while it get's there.)


lol see above. Im not changing my tune either, I felt this way all along. Its just the ppl that are now crying cause they shelved WiS that are pissing me off. GUYS let CCP HEAL before they decide to take another stab at WiS. Another round of mass unsub cause they shelved WiS is gonna do nothing but get more people on the street without a job.

Its a Black Spiral theyre Dancing here. Mass unsub they shelf WiS/WoD. More mass unsubs They now HAVE to do somethting along the lines of working on several projects like they said they couldnt do in the first place. Unfinished content/underwhelming expansions follow and more mass unsubs (mind you all this time CCP (and the accounts) is getting smaller).

When does it end? I can tell you there would be a point where it definately ends and not to "doom and gloom" but if we use mass unsubs to be the catalyst of that change thats where its GONNA end up.


this. LET THEM HEAL OR WE **** IT ALL

"Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"!
Hershman
Creepers Corporation
#305 - 2011-10-25 19:49:14 UTC
In reality its doable to have both WiS and FiS. You just need to moderate the amount of ingenuity dedicated to the station features and such and not bite off more than you can chew this time around.

I play EVE every day! Follow me at http://www.twitch.tv/matthershman
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#306 - 2011-10-25 19:55:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Terminal Insanity
I think the majority dont care, however a significant minority does want it, and a small minority do not want it at all.

nearly everyone including the haters are going to enjoy it, if only casually while they're making a trip to jita for pvp supplies or just waiting in their outpost for the next fleet op.

It would also be a great way for ccp to experiment with MT like we know they want to, and it wouldn't have to effect internet spaceships in the process. if it makes them money, it makes eve's future that much more stable, and it would give them an avenue to abuse for that.

I dont see why people Hate on CCP's MT anyway check out TF2 and see how much people actually spend to get glowing hats for their characters ... thats just a simulator... but THIS IS REAL. for those of you who dont play tf2 thats 750$ USD on a bunch of ****** weapons and hats that everyone gets randomly anyways. All for the CHANCE of a HAT that GLOWS. This is why CCP wants in on MT, like every other videogame company. And its understandable, there are crazy ******* who blow thousands of dollars on this crap. Let them! and let it pad CCP's pockets and pay for less lag and more content.

Anyways, WiS is awesome and is IMO a step needed to continue to compete in the MMO industry, even within its own 'space mmo' genre which it used to be virtually alone in, is now seeing competition, and WiS is something that could keep it ontop.

WiS would also cater to the noobs who've had a bad experience in their spaceship, and would keep them around for another try.

It would entirely change the newbie experience. Instead of just throwing them into a new ship and booting them back out to do it again, they would end up returning to WiS where they could talk with an agent 'in person' and have him explain what happened and what to do next, etc. It would make eve's newbs much more likely to stick around, which is sadly one of the ways eve loses a lot of players.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
Aston Bradley
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#307 - 2011-10-25 19:57:24 UTC
Hershman wrote:
In reality its doable to have both WiS and FiS. You just need to moderate the amount of ingenuity dedicated to the station features and such and not bite off more than you can chew this time around.



Before we get to that they need to pimp the carbon engine. It's very nice to look at for sure, but it's unstable as hell. We only have CQ and look at all the bugs we have.

[i]FiS should be the priority, but WiS should not be burried!

Don't encourage CCP to make empty promises or Incarna will happen again![/i]
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#308 - 2011-10-25 20:00:16 UTC
Hershman wrote:
In reality its doable to have both WiS and FiS. You just need to moderate the amount of ingenuity dedicated to the station features and such and not bite off more than you can chew this time around.


Unfortionately, CCP have shown us they dont have the ability to DO this.

And that was with MORE STAFF
Now with less staff, Im thinking theyre even less likely to be able to do it

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Barakkus
#309 - 2011-10-25 20:00:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Barakkus
Astor Daeoli wrote:

You are correct, I do not know how TQ runs. I am not a developer; however, I have played a lot of MMORPGs that launched with high level graphics.

These game suffered from a lot of lag with smaller numbers of players per shard/shell than the average population of Jita.

The graphics used in CQ already overheat my GPU (nvidea GTX260) with just one avatar in the room.

In a few years time, say 2013 post Nvidea maxwell GPU (an expesive bit of kit when it comes out) we should get a gpu that can handle 40? to 125? incarna avatars with good fps. Maybe this would be the time for CCP to work on making "The Sims in Sapce"


The problems other mmos you may have played could have been server side, most likely it was client side problems, poor optimization in the graphics engine most likely. Low FPS is not a server problem, it's a problem with your hardware not being able to keep up.

All of the things you have mentioned are client side issues, nothing to do with overloading CCP's servers.

I had no heat issues with an ATI HD 2600 XT, and I don't have any heat issues running 2 clients on an ATI HD 6750.

There are a number of devblogs concerning the hardware used to run CQ, I highly recommend looking at them. It's really impressive.

Lag is not defined by FPS, lag is when you click on something and nothing happens, like activating a module and it takes 30 seconds before the action actually happens. Poor FPS is entirely client side, and if you are getting low FPS you should be looking first at your GPU, then your CPU and other things.

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc
Hershman
Creepers Corporation
#310 - 2011-10-25 20:00:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Hershman
Terminal Insanity wrote:

Anyways, WiS is awesome and is IMO a step needed to continue to compete in the MMO industry, even within its own 'space mmo' genre which it used to be virtually alone in, is now seeing competition, and WiS is something that could keep it ontop.

WiS would also cater to the noobs who've had a bad experience in their spaceship, and would keep them around for another try.


This is one of the things that makes wis good stuff. It increases accessibility to the game we all know and love. More players = more Eve.

Why can't we have both WiS and rebalancing? I mean is it really that hard to change a few numbers like this:

#
  • Dramiel
    • #
  • cpuOutput: 145.0 => 133.0
    • #
  • mass: 740700.0 => 950000.0
    • #
  • maxVelocity: 473.0 => 460.0
    • #
  • powerOutput: 38.0 => 37.0
    • #
    [*] scanResolution: 990.0 => 750.0

    I play EVE every day! Follow me at http://www.twitch.tv/matthershman
    Kengutsi Akira
    Doomheim
    #311 - 2011-10-25 20:02:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
    Terminal Insanity wrote:

    nearly everyone including the haters are going to enjoy it, if only casually while they're making a trip to jita for pvp supplies or just waiting in their outpost for the next fleet op.



    Uh no...
    I turned it off and have no intention of using it at all. Unless they do like they were going to do and force it on us by removing the "opt out" button.

    Cause you cant see ppls' $1000 pants if you can choose not to load the station environment

    "Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

    Yes
    Mekela
    Vinyl Roid
    #312 - 2011-10-25 20:03:27 UTC
    Kengutsi Akira wrote:
    Hershman wrote:
    I agree that most people want support for WiS, but unfortunately the vocal minority...


    see, its this **** that pisses most everyone off. The most vocal minority here are all the players here on the forums.

    The only opinion that matters is CCP's and CCP's is to shelve WiS


    Only problem with that is - CCP stated they were doing what they were doing because of the opinion of the vocal minority that didn't want WiS. Now we have basically a WiS war, and I am to the point where I am going to be one of those people that unsub probably when TOR comes out because I am bored with FiS. (I have done just about everything 0.0 alliance, low sec, and most everything that Highsec can offer and going backwards instead of forwards is not my idea of making the game better)

    I might come back if CCP ever gets its act together and stops screwing with me. Promise me something, make me wait 4 years then shelve it because they screwed up and decided to get greedy. (See NEX and WoD)


    No you can't have my stuff you greedy whiny beggers. I would rather burn it all than give it to you.
    Astenion
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #313 - 2011-10-25 20:03:55 UTC
    I'd love to have WiS, but I don't see why it's so hard to implement. Dumb down the graphics a bit for interaction so you don't blow up people's GPUs and voila! Establishments, entertainment, games, station missions, etc. would all be a welcome addition, I think, and I don't see why we have to choose between WiS and FiS. Start WiS out slowly with gameplay over graphics and just build from there. Eve's graphics weren't always as nice as they are now...they've been updated over time.

    As long as it doesn't look like Tennis on the Atari 2600, I don't see why it has to be shelved.
    Kengutsi Akira
    Doomheim
    #314 - 2011-10-25 20:05:07 UTC
    Mekela wrote:
    Kengutsi Akira wrote:
    Hershman wrote:
    I agree that most people want support for WiS, but unfortunately the vocal minority...


    see, its this **** that pisses most everyone off. The most vocal minority here are all the players here on the forums.

    The only opinion that matters is CCP's and CCP's is to shelve WiS


    Only problem with that is - CCP stated they were doing what they were doing because of the opinion of the vocal minority that didn't want WiS. Now we have basically a WiS war, and I am to the point where I am going to be one of those people that unsub probably when TOR comes out because I am bored with FiS. (I have done just about everything 0.0 alliance, low sec, and most everything that Highsec can offer and going backwards instead of forwards is not my idea of making the game better)

    I might come back if CCP ever gets its act together and stops screwing with me. Promise me something, make me wait 4 years then shelve it because they screwed up and decided to get greedy. (See NEX and WoD)


    No you can't have my stuff you greedy whiny beggers. I would rather burn it all than give it to you.


    And it will be people like you that damage the game farther. Good job.
    WiS NAOW OR ILL LEEEEEEVE WAAAAAAAH

    God you sound two

    "Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

    Yes
    Elanor Vega
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #315 - 2011-10-25 20:05:35 UTC
    Astenion wrote:
    I'd love to have WiS, but I don't see why it's so hard to implement. Dumb down the graphics a bit for interaction so you don't blow up people's GPUs and voila! Establishments, entertainment, games, station missions, etc. would all be a welcome addition, I think, and I don't see why we have to choose between WiS and FiS. Start WiS out slowly with gameplay over graphics and just build from there. Eve's graphics weren't always as nice as they are now...they've been updated over time.

    As long as it doesn't look like Tennis on the Atari 2600, I don't see why it has to be shelved.


    +10000
    Hershman
    Creepers Corporation
    #316 - 2011-10-25 20:06:04 UTC
    Kengutsi Akira wrote:
    Hershman wrote:
    In reality its doable to have both WiS and FiS. You just need to moderate the amount of ingenuity dedicated to the station features and such and not bite off more than you can chew this time around.


    Unfortionately, CCP have shown us they dont have the ability to DO this.

    And that was with MORE STAFF
    Now with less staff, Im thinking theyre even less likely to be able to do it



    I believe CCP can do it if they try to lay the foundation for WiS: Get some small rooms with very basic interaction with other players... doing this but not trying to implement night clubs at the same time!

    I think since they said in the blog that more people are actually working on eve now because they are moved from that vampire mmo thing...

    I play EVE every day! Follow me at http://www.twitch.tv/matthershman
    Elanor Vega
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #317 - 2011-10-25 20:06:59 UTC
    Hershman wrote:
    Terminal Insanity wrote:

    Anyways, WiS is awesome and is IMO a step needed to continue to compete in the MMO industry, even within its own 'space mmo' genre which it used to be virtually alone in, is now seeing competition, and WiS is something that could keep it ontop.

    WiS would also cater to the noobs who've had a bad experience in their spaceship, and would keep them around for another try.


    This is one of the things that makes wis good stuff. It increases accessibility.

    Why can't we have both WiS and rebalancing? I mean is it really that hard to change a few numbers like this:

    #
  • Dramiel
    • #
  • cpuOutput: 145.0 => 133.0
    • #
  • mass: 740700.0 => 950000.0
    • #
  • maxVelocity: 473.0 => 460.0
    • #
  • powerOutput: 38.0 => 37.0
    • #
  • scanResolution: 990.0 => 750.0

    • +10000

    i see some smart ppl here for a change...
    Terminal Insanity
    KarmaFleet
    Goonswarm Federation
    #318 - 2011-10-25 20:07:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Terminal Insanity
    Kengutsi Akira wrote:
    Terminal Insanity wrote:

    nearly everyone including the haters are going to enjoy it, if only casually while they're making a trip to jita for pvp supplies or just waiting in their outpost for the next fleet op.



    Uh no...
    I turned it off and have no intention of using it at all. Unless they do like they were going to do and force it on us by removing the "opt out" button.

    Cause you cant see ppls' $1000 pants if you can choose not to load the station environment


    You're just afraid of change lol. You should have the option to never use WiS and you can ignore it completely, but the vast majority of players will find it amusing, even if only casually. It will introduce new content. MORE DIVERSE CONTENT, which will attract other groups of players who're interested in other things. And introduce them to your guns. I dont see the problem?

    You will just be locking yourself out of something because you're twisted up about them not fixing railguns for so long, or whatever your complaint is

    I agree spaceships need lots of love too, but WiS is a great feature. Just like i dont play incursions at all, im glad CCP is keeping the carebears fed so when i get hungry i have something to eat

    "War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP
    Barakkus
    #319 - 2011-10-25 20:12:30 UTC
    Astenion wrote:
    I'd love to have WiS, but I don't see why it's so hard to implement. Dumb down the graphics a bit for interaction so you don't blow up people's GPUs and voila! Establishments, entertainment, games, station missions, etc. would all be a welcome addition, I think, and I don't see why we have to choose between WiS and FiS. Start WiS out slowly with gameplay over graphics and just build from there. Eve's graphics weren't always as nice as they are now...they've been updated over time.

    As long as it doesn't look like Tennis on the Atari 2600, I don't see why it has to be shelved.



    There are lots of tricks many, if not all MMOs use to make the game playable client side when you have a lot of people visible in one area, I don't doubt they will utilize many of those tricks to make it playable. It wouldn't make sense to make everything rendered full quality if the objects aren't even close enough to be viewed in high quality rendering. Most MMOs (if not all) use a technique of rendering a set limit of avatars in high quality that are viewable and close enough to the camera, then switch everything else to low detail textures/shaders etc.

    CCP needs to fix the damn shaders for carbon though. They've actually released some fixes for a lot of the shader problems since CQ was released, but there's a lot more optimizations that need to be done to make it playable on a larger scale.

    http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc
    Crucis Cassiopeiae
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #320 - 2011-10-25 20:13:58 UTC
    Hershman wrote:
    No, it is indeed true that most casual players are not the forumgoers you see posting here every day.


    casual players... or just players dont want to argue about things, they want to play... and thats why you dont see "just players" on forums too much... and on forums are ppl that like game so much or want to change things their way... or think that this is game that belongs only to them and attack ppl with "get out"...

    p.s.
    i want WiS

    Vote Issler Dainze for CSM7! http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=470