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Just want to Share Multiboxing gone mad.
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Ave Kathrina
My Ass Is On Fire
#221 - 2013-02-04 21:26:13 UTC
Your videos are awesome.

But ignoring all the trolls/goons/miners etc etc etc.... maybe if you didn't **** 20k away on Eve a year you could afford to go to FanFest ????




Wouldn't you love to be in that room, where The Wis gets introduced to The Mittani ?
I've done some really stupid shit in this game.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#222 - 2013-02-04 21:26:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Darth Gustav wrote:
In short, he is mining himself and all other ice miners (including those in the foreseeable future) into serious pay cuts.

He is not mining himself pay cuts if he is still continuing to make additional total isk per account he adds. The isk per account ratio might drop, but Wis is still making more isk with 100 accounts then he is with 90.
Only the solo miners and casuals suffer devaluation, as is the case with most forms of anti-PVP mechanics claimed to 'benefit' them.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#223 - 2013-02-04 21:32:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Eric Ryan wrote:
Yes the pay per hour of ice mining dropped so in that regard you are being payed less but my point is you are capable of mining for longer time as in you as human player. You can mine for 12 hours on weekdays. Easy. No problem. With old mechanics this was extremly tedious and demanding on you as human being.

So yeah the prices dropped also the amount of ice mined per hour dropped but changes to barges allowed you as human to do the activity for longer times hence recouping the loss inflicted on you through drop in price and amount mined. You can drop macks in the field and go to shop, walk a dog, watch episode of a tv show...you get the point. You don't need to sit at the comupter for 12 hours to mine for 12 hours. You just need 24 breaks of about 3 minutes for the entire day to reset the thing.

Ps: Thank you for discussion. I'm on my way to bed now.

fly safe

Have a good night's sleep.

But...

...if prices dropped and you have to spend more time mining does it really matter if it's any easier? Anybody can do it now, which means more people will do it. Actually, with this forum thread in prominent view, probably a lot more players will try multiboxing ice. You make such a good case for how easy it is, after all.

What happens when blue ice sells for 74k per unit? 33k?

People keep on signing up to try Eve. Of those, we can statistically say some want to try mining. We can further say that some of them will be referred to the methodology being popularized in this very thread. That's statistics for you.

Some of those people can and will mine for twelve hours a day, too! They'll also sell to the buy orders. Why shouldn't they? As you've so plainly elucidated, mining is easy and requires no real attention. Not only that but with all the recent changes to Eve, it's safer than ever to do so!

Which, at the end of the day, means even lower sale prices in the long-run. Unless people like The Wis wise-up and curtail their mining efforts, that is. Or unless CCP realize the folly of their ways and revert (or in some other way manage to fully undo) the barge and exhumer changes.

Either works. One is far less likely than the other, though.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#224 - 2013-02-04 21:41:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
In short, he is mining himself and all other ice miners (including those in the foreseeable future) into serious pay cuts.

He is not mining himself pay cuts if he is still continuing to make additional total isk per account he adds. The isk per account ratio might drop, but Wis is still making more isk with 100 accounts then he is with 90.
Only the solo miners and casuals suffer devaluation, as is the case with most forms of anti-PVP mechanics claimed to 'benefit' them.

I've seen his operation in-person. Many of his accounts remain docked in the station in the system where he mines. Rare is the occurrence of stumbling across The Wis using all of his accounts actively. So that deficit you mentioned in the ISK per account ratio actually hits him more than you may think.

The truth is he feels the devaluation even more than the solo or casual guy.

That's entirely because he's multiplying the devaluation by some number less than one hundred and then using the reduced proceeds to try to keep all one hundred accounts subbed.

The Wis is most certainly mining enough to even hurt The Wis.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
The Wis
Fise Corp
War and Pestilence
#225 - 2013-02-04 22:43:10 UTC
No Alibi wrote:
I remember when you wrote you name in an Ice belt not that long ago....HAHA!Cool


Yea.. That was in Dantan and I did not write that.. Someone else did.. He tried to do it before I logged on to get a laugh.. I logged on when he was working on the S
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#226 - 2013-02-04 22:46:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Darth Gustav wrote:

I've seen his operation in-person. Many of his accounts remain docked in the station in the system where he mines. Rare is the occurrence of stumbling across The Wis using all of his accounts actively. So that deficit you mentioned in the ISK per account ratio actually hits him more than you may think.

The truth is he feels the devaluation even more than the solo or casual guy.

That's entirely because he's multiplying the devaluation by some number less than one hundred and then using the reduced proceeds to try to keep all one hundred accounts subbed.

The Wis is most certainly mining enough to even hurt The Wis.

This explanation doesn't add up - even if Wis did push down the collective ice economy significantly, he could just not sell every chunk of ice he mines right way and continue using all of his mining accounts while stockpiling
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#227 - 2013-02-04 22:51:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
wrong thread
The Wis
Fise Corp
War and Pestilence
#228 - 2013-02-04 22:56:02 UTC
Ave Kathrina wrote:
Your videos are awesome.

But ignoring all the trolls/goons/miners etc etc etc.... maybe if you didn't **** 20k away on Eve a year you could afford to go to FanFest ????




Wouldn't you love to be in that room, where The Wis gets introduced to The Mittani ?



I would love to have 20k to thow away. Shoot I would love to have $30 a month to thow away. If it was not for plex's I would not be able to keep playing eve.

Also with the number of haters out there towards me I would not go to fanfest.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#229 - 2013-02-04 22:56:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

I've seen his operation in-person. Many of his accounts remain docked in the station in the system where he mines. Rare is the occurrence of stumbling across The Wis using all of his accounts actively. So that deficit you mentioned in the ISK per account ratio actually hits him more than you may think.

The truth is he feels the devaluation even more than the solo or casual guy.

That's entirely because he's multiplying the devaluation by some number less than one hundred and then using the reduced proceeds to try to keep all one hundred accounts subbed.

The Wis is most certainly mining enough to even hurt The Wis.

This explanation doesn't add up - even if Wis did push down the collective ice economy significantly, he could just not sell every chunk of ice he mines right way and continue using all of his mining accounts while stockpiling

No matter how you look at it, two things are true:

1) The product of any positive integer and 100 is exactly 100x greater than the product of that integer and one. That means The Wis feels the pain of devaluation 100x more than the little guy.

2) The Wis does not typically mine with all 100 accounts concurrently.

That means he feels the pinch of the ice product price drop even more when he tries to sub all of his 100 accounts using less than 100 accounts to earn that ISK with.

This seems pretty self-explanatory to me.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
The Wis
Fise Corp
War and Pestilence
#230 - 2013-02-04 23:04:08 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

I've seen his operation in-person. Many of his accounts remain docked in the station in the system where he mines. Rare is the occurrence of stumbling across The Wis using all of his accounts actively. So that deficit you mentioned in the ISK per account ratio actually hits him more than you may think.

The truth is he feels the devaluation even more than the solo or casual guy.

That's entirely because he's multiplying the devaluation by some number less than one hundred and then using the reduced proceeds to try to keep all one hundred accounts subbed.

The Wis is most certainly mining enough to even hurt The Wis.

This explanation doesn't add up - even if Wis did push down the collective ice economy significantly, he could just not sell every chunk of ice he mines right way and continue using all of his mining accounts while stockpiling

No matter how you look at it, two things are true:

1) The product of any positive integer and 100 is greater than the product of that integer and one. That means The Wis feels the pain of devaluation 100x more than the little guy.

2) The Wis does not typically mine with all 100 accounts concurrently.

That means he feels the pinch of the ice product price drop even more when he tries to sub all of his 100 accounts using less than 100 accounts to earn that ISK with.

This seems pretty self-explanatory to me.


Well I have a total of 145 accounts. 102 of them are mining and then I have eyes to watch other systems and other accounts I use for PVE PVP etc. Most of the time 95% of the guys mining are out in the belt. the other 5% are docking up and unloading..

True I can do more but using Frieghters to haul ice back to station but that would mean I need to cluster my guys together and jetcan and that would make for an easy gank so not wise.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#231 - 2013-02-04 23:09:21 UTC
The Wis wrote:
True I can do more but using Frieghters to haul ice back to station but that would mean I need to cluster my guys together and jetcan and that would make for an easy gank so not wise.


You could jetcan, use an Orca to tractor the cans to the Freighter and work it that way. Kind of the way Saudi Arabia runs offshore loading platforms for Oil tankers.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
The Wis
Fise Corp
War and Pestilence
#232 - 2013-02-04 23:09:58 UTC
Also wanted to add since I have been doing this I have had a lot of people ask me questions and I know of 5 different people that are now up to 40 accounts each and growing.

Now it goes without saying that some of these guys are also training skills on these toon to sale for isks later.

I do not really see CCP ever saying we need to put a cap on this. I mean each extra accounts comes to about $15 more a month for CCP. What company will really say we are making too much money we need to stop this?
The Wis
Fise Corp
War and Pestilence
#233 - 2013-02-04 23:12:24 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
The Wis wrote:
True I can do more but using Frieghters to haul ice back to station but that would mean I need to cluster my guys together and jetcan and that would make for an easy gank so not wise.


You could jetcan, use an Orca to tractor the cans to the Freighter and work it that way. Kind of the way Saudi Arabia runs offshore loading platforms for Oil tankers.


Oh I know that.. But it is easier to cluster them and jet can. I fill up to Obelisks every 20 to 25 min and talking about 100 cans. That would be a whole lot to tractor.

If I do the tractor I would use a noctice to pull the cans to a frigher. But you wind up spending more time tractoring then anything else.
Brandon Syne
Straxus Innovations
#234 - 2013-02-04 23:12:30 UTC
The Wis wrote:

True I can do more but using Frieghters to haul ice back to station but that would mean I need to cluster my guys together and jetcan and that would make for an easy gank so not wise.


You can anchor a box of GSCs around where your miners will be and this will make you impervious to smartbombs (they can't be activated near anchored GSC)
youaredumb
Reportable Offensive Name
Goonswarm Federation
#235 - 2013-02-05 00:04:51 UTC
On grid safes, orbiting an anchor, active boosts, cycling your guys out. All smart things. You've been caught several times, you'll get caught again. No amount of scouts will prevent ganks, but you do a good job. Smartbombing is difficult with the way you run things, sologanking isn't as difficult.

You factor losses in to your business model because you are an active target for people wanting a challenge. I would love for you to go over that in this thread to provide other multiboxers advice. You give hope to a lot of miners, so it would be nice to see you actually help them out by showing them how to accept losses and still make a profit.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#236 - 2013-02-05 00:32:32 UTC
lol @ guys giving Wis multibox advice
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#237 - 2013-02-05 02:28:14 UTC
The Wis wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

I've seen his operation in-person. Many of his accounts remain docked in the station in the system where he mines. Rare is the occurrence of stumbling across The Wis using all of his accounts actively. So that deficit you mentioned in the ISK per account ratio actually hits him more than you may think.

The truth is he feels the devaluation even more than the solo or casual guy.

That's entirely because he's multiplying the devaluation by some number less than one hundred and then using the reduced proceeds to try to keep all one hundred accounts subbed.

The Wis is most certainly mining enough to even hurt The Wis.

This explanation doesn't add up - even if Wis did push down the collective ice economy significantly, he could just not sell every chunk of ice he mines right way and continue using all of his mining accounts while stockpiling

No matter how you look at it, two things are true:

1) The product of any positive integer and 100 is greater than the product of that integer and one. That means The Wis feels the pain of devaluation 100x more than the little guy.

2) The Wis does not typically mine with all 100 accounts concurrently.

That means he feels the pinch of the ice product price drop even more when he tries to sub all of his 100 accounts using less than 100 accounts to earn that ISK with.

This seems pretty self-explanatory to me.


Well I have a total of 145 accounts. 102 of them are mining and then I have eyes to watch other systems and other accounts I use for PVE PVP etc. Most of the time 95% of the guys mining are out in the belt. the other 5% are docking up and unloading..

True I can do more but using Frieghters to haul ice back to station but that would mean I need to cluster my guys together and jetcan and that would make for an easy gank so not wise.

Strange. Any time me or my corporation come to the system where you mine, it seems to be more like 60-70 of your accounts docked with none in the belts. This persists at least as long as we are there.

I cannot presume that we are alone in causing this behavior.

I know for a fact you have to make due with less than 100 accounts mining full-time.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
The Wis
Fise Corp
War and Pestilence
#238 - 2013-02-05 02:31:58 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Strange. Any time me or my corporation come to the system where you mine, it seems to be more like 60-70 of your accounts docked with none in the belts. This persists at least as long as we are there.

I cannot presume that we are alone in causing this behavior.

I know for a fact you have to make due with less than 100 accounts mining full-time.



Yea.. Ok. yea.. you got me there is no one anyone can ever mine with more then 10 to 20 guys.. Just can not be done. I might sujest getting your eyes checked maybe. Just kidding.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#239 - 2013-02-05 02:38:34 UTC
The Wis wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Strange. Any time me or my corporation come to the system where you mine, it seems to be more like 60-70 of your accounts docked with none in the belts. This persists at least as long as we are there.

I cannot presume that we are alone in causing this behavior.

I know for a fact you have to make due with less than 100 accounts mining full-time.



Yea.. Ok. yea.. you got me there is no one anyone can ever mine with more then 10 to 20 guys.. Just can not be done. I might sujest getting your eyes checked maybe. Just kidding.

I'm sure you don't understand now, so I'll apologize and then explain.

I am sorry for not being straightforward.

My corporation has smartbombed you with success in the past. When we enter Agal now, you dock up. All of your accounts. They stay that way until we leave. In your absence, we settle for ganking less savvy miners and moving on. However, you are definitely in-station with 60-70 of your Mackinaw pilots (and undoubtedly at least one mining capital) during our ganks.

I assume other corporations have also successfully ganked you. For this reason, I also assume you dock up if and when they enter Agal, as well. I assume this because the game supports a personal and corporate standings setting for individuals as well as corporations. I'm fairly certain, good sir, that we are red.

So what I'm saying is that you dock up to stay safe, which is smart. But it still means you're docked with a bunch of accounts.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
The Wis
Fise Corp
War and Pestilence
#240 - 2013-02-05 02:44:46 UTC  |  Edited by: The Wis
Darth Gustav wrote:
The Wis wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Strange. Any time me or my corporation come to the system where you mine, it seems to be more like 60-70 of your accounts docked with none in the belts. This persists at least as long as we are there.

I cannot presume that we are alone in causing this behavior.

I know for a fact you have to make due with less than 100 accounts mining full-time.



Yea.. Ok. yea.. you got me there is no one anyone can ever mine with more then 10 to 20 guys.. Just can not be done. I might sujest getting your eyes checked maybe. Just kidding.

I'm sure you don't understand now, so I'll apologize and then explain.

I am sorry for not being straightforward.

My corporation has smartbombed you with success in the past. When we enter Agal now, you dock up. All of your accounts. They stay that way until we leave. In your absence, we settle for ganking less savvy miners and moving on. However, you are definitely in-station with 60-70 of your Mackinaw pilots (and undoubtedly at least one mining capital) during our ganks.

I assume other corporations have also successfully ganked you. For this reason, I also assume you dock up if and when they enter Agal, as well. I assume this because the game supports a personal and corporate standings setting for individuals as well as corporations. I'm fairly certain, good sir, that we are red.

So what I'm saying is that you dock up to stay safe, which is smart. But it still means you're docked with a bunch of accounts.


Ok.. Yea I understand.. Good troll..

But FYI you are not set red to me.