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[Drone Development Idea] - Modular Drones
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Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#21 - 2012-12-12 20:09:57 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Draconian;
An adjective meaning great severity, that derives from Draco, an Athenian law scribe under whom small offences had heavy punishments.

How on earth does that term apply to a **** UI?

Because using it is like a punishment.

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Benjamin Hamburg
Chaos.Theory
#22 - 2013-01-12 20:50:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Benjamin Hamburg
I'm not sure about the ''completly replace'' part but it would be nice to add modular drone only if it add a litle more diversity without being totally op. 2-sub seem not enough tough, it don't add a lot of possibility. If you want a lot of possible combinaison you need at least 3-sub with mutiple choice for each.

Let's say:

a Propulsion sub

(AB drones? MWD?)

an Attack sub

(Damage type? Missile? Gun? Tracking or range?)

a Defense sub

(Shield tanked drone, armor? Less hp but a lower sig?)

You see, if you can choose what drone you really want, you can choose to have a blaster shield tanked drones with a low sig to better rat-**** these mean Guristas.
Sam Korak
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-01-15 04:20:56 UTC
Souisa wrote:
What is wrong with the current drones?

Oh I don't know man. Real men don't use drones.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-01-23 21:41:33 UTC
Sam Korak wrote:
Souisa wrote:
What is wrong with the current drones?

Oh I don't know man. Real men don't use drones.


Real men also hull tank, which is a daft idea, causing real men to die a lot.

I use premium gas.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#25 - 2013-01-24 11:36:55 UTC
I noticed someone had suggested drones with subsystem slots like T3s. Personally, I see that as overcomplicating them.

Right now, drones fall into into one of 4 slots on a scale from brawler to kiter. That is supposed to be balanced by damage types and speed/tracking as well as hp.
That systems pretty broken and it has really left only Minmatar or Gallente drones being usable.

I would like to see a system where I can choose whether my drones are kiters or brawlers as well as specifying their damage type. I don't think that's too much to ask for. Even if these drones do not fully replace the current ones, I would like the option to use something like these, even if they match T2 drones in abilities and cost 2 or 3 times as much. In fact, even if they didn't quite match T2 drones, I would probably still be happy to pay the extra for the versatility.

Does anyone agree?

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ORCACommander
Obsidian Firelance Technologies
#26 - 2013-02-03 18:29:11 UTC
I like this concept but the how to implement this into a UI is rather difficult. they would need to come up with a new fitting window and wa way to access it without being in the drone as an active ship. Designing them like tech 3's would be pretty interesting but complicates the hell out of things. I think basic hull type with a 6 slots total might work
Major Hawke
Pixel Knights
Dead Pixels Inc
#27 - 2013-02-03 21:51:15 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
I noticed someone had suggested drones with subsystem slots like T3s. Personally, I see that as overcomplicating them.

Right now, drones fall into into one of 4 slots on a scale from brawler to kiter. That is supposed to be balanced by damage types and speed/tracking as well as hp.
That systems pretty broken and it has really left only Minmatar or Gallente drones being usable.

I would like to see a system where I can choose whether my drones are kiters or brawlers as well as specifying their damage type. I don't think that's too much to ask for. Even if these drones do not fully replace the current ones, I would like the option to use something like these, even if they match T2 drones in abilities and cost 2 or 3 times as much. In fact, even if they didn't quite match T2 drones, I would probably still be happy to pay the extra for the versatility.

Does anyone agree?


+1
Drones need to be brought up to date with more advanced/intricate features.

Drone update suggestions: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197943
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#28 - 2013-02-03 22:15:14 UTC
ORCACommander wrote:
I like this concept but the how to implement this into a UI is rather difficult. they would need to come up with a new fitting window and wa way to access it without being in the drone as an active ship. Designing them like tech 3's would be pretty interesting but complicates the hell out of things. I think basic hull type with a 6 slots total might work

6 slots is complicating things way too far.

My idea was to give all the veratility we look for in a weaponsystem, without going overboard by making the use of the plaform complicated. I only really see a need for 3 choices: Size, damage or utility and speed/tracking/range or dps/tank.

If a T3 drone did come about, I would hate using it, if for no other reason than this:
If I use a navy dominix, I am probably going to need to fit 30 drones, each with 6 slots... Fitting 180 modules is not my idea of havin fun.

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ORCACommander
Obsidian Firelance Technologies
#29 - 2013-02-03 22:49:27 UTC
perhaps used in conjunction with the saved fittings window to mass fit the drones.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#30 - 2013-02-04 07:09:47 UTC
ORCACommander wrote:
perhaps used in conjunction with the saved fittings window to mass fit the drones.

Even so, that's 30 of the little bastards and if I want to change something I still have to **** around.

How is your idea preferable to mine? There is already an abandoned thread for your mini-ship drones, don't try to hijack mine.

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ORCACommander
Obsidian Firelance Technologies
#31 - 2013-02-04 20:57:37 UTC
I was not trying to hijack. that is what i thought you were going with this
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#32 - 2013-02-20 15:19:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannott Thanos
Remove all drones.

Introduce 1 drone for each size.

Have a checkbox interface on ships with dronebay

[   ] Damage * 1.5
[   ] Speed * 1.5
[   ] EHP * 1.5

Check 2

[   ]   [   ]   [   ]   [   ]
EM   TH    KN    EX

Check 1

Can only be set in a station.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Kenshi Hanshin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-03-05 20:22:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenshi Hanshin
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Quote:
Draconian;
An adjective meaning great severity, that derives from Draco, an Athenian law scribe under whom small offences had heavy punishments.

I used the term due to how the interface is so ungainly and cumbersome to use. Any other weapon system is nice and easy to use. Pick your target, start firing. Hell, with the info when you hover over it now you even get told ranges and DPS for the ammo you have loaded. With Drones you have to expand the tab, (which closes again if theres none left after launch,) right click, clcik launch, select your target, tell the drones to attack. And thats only if you have grouped each of the Drones as you want them used. Even when you have them grouped, its far too easy to send out Drones that have been damaged earlier on rather than ones that are fully functional. A complete new UI is needed, we all agree. But this thread isn't about the UI, there are already several about that.

As for the Modular Drones being a redundant idea, its true that there is already a very wide choice of Drones. Not including T2's ther are 12 damage 'combat hulls' spread across 3 size groups. Each one doing a different damage type and having different speeds, ranges, tracking abilities and EHP. Then there are 4 sentries, again with a huge difference in ranges, tracking, DPS and EHP. Then you have 6 different maintainance Drones, again over 3 sizes. Finally, there are 15 EWAR Drones (if you include webs,) spread over 3 sizes. In short, there are 37 different Drones, not including the new salvage drone or the 2 mining drones. What I am suggesting is to reduce that down to 8, (2 Light, 2 Medium, 2 Heavy, 2 Sentry,) using one of 11 scripts at a time, (EM, Thermal, Kinetic, Explosive, ECM, SD, TD, TP, Web, Shield Rep or Armour Rep.) Obviously, Sentries would only be able to use damage scripts but that would still mean that there would be 74 different combinations of Drones, allowing for greater tactical flexability. You could carry spare scripts in your cargo hold, dock up and swap them around depending on what you needed at the time.

Want a flight of fast drones that will track well and do kinetic damage? Tough luck, they don't exist. Want a flight of tough high DPS drones that do EM? Sorry, they don't exist. Want to snipe long ranges with Sentry Drones doing thermal damage? Guess what, they don't exist! But they would under a Modular system.


Well said! The Drone UI needs reworking but as mentioned before in this thread it is a different discussion.

Here, having drones that can be altered to fit the need and tactical & strategic needs would make sense. I can do that in a lot ways with Turrets and Missile Launchers with their various support modules (BCs, TEs, TCs etc) and ammo. Drones as they are are very limited and restricted in their uses, if any.

As mentioned, Caldari and Amarr drones are not used much if at all for PvE or PvP. Gallente drones do a lot more damage. Minmatar drones are fast. So as a result there is little to no need/use for Caldari and Amarr ones. I admit the Caldari ones have the best tank, but also you will spend all day killing things with them. Amarr drones have neither the damage nor the speed to be useful, aka mediocre at best.

Moving on to the more specialist drones: ECM and Logistics. No matter how you look at it their stats reflect their T1 combat variant. So once again you have a very similar spread of two useful and two not-useful. So in the end the drones presently are not balanced nor doing much good.

Having modular drones as mentioned in the quote above would change things for drone-boats. It would allow those of us that fly them to make the most of our drone bays and ship bonuses. Drone boats primary damage is their drones. Which makes it paramount that those pilots have the same tactical flexibility as other pilots. If those ships are to truly be used as they are intentioned.

CCP please look into the suggestion and implement it. it would help with some of the existing imbalances between ships and weapon systems.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#34 - 2013-03-06 05:32:36 UTC
Bump

Anyone else have opinions on simplified custom drones?

Also, what are your opinions for revamping the drones themselves, (rather than the UI or the mechanic)

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Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#35 - 2013-03-07 11:09:03 UTC
one more bump

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Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#36 - 2013-04-06 15:52:06 UTC
Kenshi Hanshin wrote:
Well said! The Drone UI needs reworking but as mentioned before in this thread it is a different discussion.

Here, having drones that can be altered to fit the need and tactical & strategic needs would make sense. I can do that in a lot ways with Turrets and Missile Launchers with their various support modules (BCs, TEs, TCs etc) and ammo. Drones as they are are very limited and restricted in their uses, if any.

As mentioned, Caldari and Amarr drones are not used much if at all for PvE or PvP. Gallente drones do a lot more damage. Minmatar drones are fast. So as a result there is little to no need/use for Caldari and Amarr ones. I admit the Caldari ones have the best tank, but also you will spend all day killing things with them. Amarr drones have neither the damage nor the speed to be useful, aka mediocre at best.

Moving on to the more specialist drones: ECM and Logistics. No matter how you look at it their stats reflect their T1 combat variant. So once again you have a very similar spread of two useful and two not-useful. So in the end the drones presently are not balanced nor doing much good.

Having modular drones as mentioned in the quote above would change things for drone-boats. It would allow those of us that fly them to make the most of our drone bays and ship bonuses. Drone boats primary damage is their drones. Which makes it paramount that those pilots have the same tactical flexibility as other pilots. If those ships are to truly be used as they are intentioned.

CCP please look into the suggestion and implement it. it would help with some of the existing imbalances between ships and weapon systems.

Thank you for the support and sorry I didn't respond to this sooner.

A post was made about 'Smart' Drones, or Kamikaze Drones to be frank. In it I presented my long term view of them and how they could be implemented in a balanced fashion. Not only could a detonation core be another script for these Modular Drones, so they could become Kamikaze Drones, (or 'Tactical' Drones or whatever term is deemed appropriate,) but I also mentioned something else:

Different Drone sizes. I don't remember seeing a post anywhere regarding the Bandwidth and Space taken up by Drones. Something that could make these Modular Drones really unique would be size. What about having multiple sizes of these Modular Drones: 5m3, 15m3, 20m3 and using varying amounts of bandwidth dependant on their utility?

Many ships have different sizes of Drone Bay and Bandwidth. This is designed to balance the power that each other these ships can access through their Drones. But why not have intermediate sizes so that a ship like the Prophecy, with 75mb, can field a full flight of the 15mb Drones using its full capacity rather than having to mix a combination of 2 heavy, 2 medium and 1 small Drone, to maximise its potential.

What are people opinons on this?

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caelestis calametis
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-04-14 22:54:52 UTC
it is painful to have to mix match drones in a flight. its similar to that old eve addage that if you try to do everything well you end up mastering doing nothing.

the mixed flight of drones does the same thing to drone boats that the mixed missile load does to missile boats and the mixed range load does for turret boats.

your main dps comes from the 2 large drones which get picked off easy then the two mediums get picked off cuz theyr still slower the the rest and soon all you have is a light drone chasing your target and what good is that?

it sounds complicated but what if after you selected the dmg type script and mobility and tank script
you could adjust a slider to increase the stats based on size (within limits currently set ofc)

maybe adjust the stats of of drone size at the production stage of a raw unscripted drone? so the size of a drone adds a modifier to the tank dmg and mobility scripts much the same as gun type and size adds a modifier to ammo
Tomoe Achasse
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-04-15 04:04:51 UTC
I think a system involving modular, custom assembled drones *is* a novel one, but a much simpler solution exists.

as I was reading through this thread, the word "script" kept popping up, and that gave me an idea. Instead of overhauling drones themselves, why not the modules you fit to your ships.

Adding charges that can be loaded into modules to fine tune wherever attributes they enhance, much the way tracking scripts are loaded into tracking enhancers.

Have a module that is loaded with nannite paste to repair drone armor while they are in the hangar, scripts that can add or decrease tracking for rate of fire in the omni-directional tracking link, a new drone link augmenter that will give additional range by consuming cap 25 charges etc. It's even conceivable that drone damage augmenters could be loaded with charges that alter their damage types. This is the result of five minutes of brain storming, but it seems much simpler than the solutions being discussed.

I do not feel like reinventing the wheel with modular drones is the solution. Eventually the eve community as a whole will settle into a drone doctrine, much the same way a disproportionate number of pilots choose to fly drakes and Tengus, and all the effort that went into creating such an elaborate system will become moot.

With balance and creativity I feel that this would be an excellent and relatively easy to implement solution to overhauling drones.
caelestis calametis
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-04-15 23:08:51 UTC  |  Edited by: caelestis calametis
Tomoe Achasse wrote:
I think a system involving modular, custom assembled drones *is* a novel one, but a much simpler solution exists.

as I was reading through this thread, the word "script" kept popping up, and that gave me an idea. Instead of overhauling drones themselves, why not the modules you fit to your ships.

Adding charges that can be loaded into modules to fine tune wherever attributes they enhance, much the way tracking scripts are loaded into tracking enhancers.

Have a module that is loaded with nannite paste to repair drone armor while they are in the hangar, scripts that can add or decrease tracking for rate of fire in the omni-directional tracking link, a new drone link augmenter that will give additional range by consuming cap 25 charges etc. It's even conceivable that drone damage augmenters could be loaded with charges that alter their damage types. This is the result of five minutes of brain storming, but it seems much simpler than the solutions being discussed.

I do not feel like reinventing the wheel with modular drones is the solution. Eventually the eve community as a whole will settle into a drone doctrine, much the same way a disproportionate number of pilots choose to fly drakes and Tengus, and all the effort that went into creating such an elaborate system will become moot.

With balance and creativity I feel that this would be an excellent and relatively easy to implement solution to overhauling drones.



this is what everyone has been saying except you took our simplified script idea for standardized drones and made it hella complicated and more draconian then it already was. IE the link augmenter which increases drone control range needing to use 25 cap charges to function. you do that and i guarantee anyone who does use one now for any purpose will drop them the moment the patch hits.

what some of us here are proposing is to use standard racial drone sizes but dictate their mobility defense(ie HP/layers) and offence kite or brawl then dmg type. now we say scripts because they wouldn't be too much headache logistically to get flowing into the market. now they could cost some more minerals and **** to make but it would be worth it. hell even modulated drones would be fine as long as the mineral requirements for the parts wasn't retardedly balanced.

hell you could do the fit drones thing hella simple through making drones generic to race then having a menu item on ships with drone bays labeled drone layout and you could stick stacks of 5 for each part that affects your drones in that much the same way someone uses a corp hanger on a carrier or orca. this way no matter what flight of drones you busted out light medium or heavy you would know that they would IE be fast, high EM dmg, paper tanked drones. (though fast high dmg and paper tank is relative to drone size, a berserker is still better tanked then a hornet)

simple is good guys but not at the expense of making it more unforgiving then it already is.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#40 - 2013-04-16 08:10:53 UTC
Tomoe Achasse wrote:
I think a system involving modular, custom assembled drones *is* a novel one, but a much simpler solution exists.

as I was reading through this thread, the word "script" kept popping up, and that gave me an idea. Instead of overhauling drones themselves, why not the modules you fit to your ships.

Adding charges that can be loaded into modules to fine tune wherever attributes they enhance, much the way tracking scripts are loaded into tracking enhancers.

Have a module that is loaded with nannite paste to repair drone armor while they are in the hangar, scripts that can add or decrease tracking for rate of fire in the omni-directional tracking link, a new drone link augmenter that will give additional range by consuming cap 25 charges etc. It's even conceivable that drone damage augmenters could be loaded with charges that alter their damage types. This is the result of five minutes of brain storming, but it seems much simpler than the solutions being discussed.

I do not feel like reinventing the wheel with modular drones is the solution. Eventually the eve community as a whole will settle into a drone doctrine, much the same way a disproportionate number of pilots choose to fly drakes and Tengus, and all the effort that went into creating such an elaborate system will become moot.

With balance and creativity I feel that this would be an excellent and relatively easy to implement solution to overhauling drones.

I can't say that I am fond of the principle of a 'fuel' based mod for additional range. In fairness, with all V's your looking at 60km control range anyway and a T1 augmentor brings that to 80km. Do drones really need more range than that?

As for the scripted drone modules, I don't see a problem with that, although scripts are only used this way in active mods, at present. But then, I ave no problem with putting in active drone mods.

I don't see this as re-inventing the wheel, more like moving from wheels with metal band to wheels with tyres. It's an evolutionary step. I also don't see people addopting drones as a primary doctrine in the same quantities as Drakes and Tengus, given that it's not just the versatility of missiles that are attractive in these ships, but also their tank. There is also no reliable way, other than ecm, to stop missile damage. Even then there are ways around that. Meanwhile, it's not exactly hard to pop a drone... Drones can also take a huge chunk of time to reach their target. Then again, both Drones and Missiles suffer from the 'Benny Hill Paradox'.

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