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Hit them where it hurts

Author
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#61 - 2013-02-04 04:46:05 UTC
The incredibly asinine nature of the OP kind of detracts from any legitimate discussion of war mechanics or long term NPC corp habitation.

Everyone should just stop posting.
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Sebiestor Tribe
#62 - 2013-02-04 04:47:18 UTC
Youdamlochnessmonster, you ain't gettinmy treefiddy!!

John Hancock

Mascen Carew
Ordo Carnifex
#63 - 2013-02-04 04:53:00 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Mascen Carew wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Die Unknown wrote:
A jump freighter in an NPC corp can operate 99.99%Evil risk free.


Suicide Gank them as they Jump into HS. As your goal is simply to hurt the big alliance, hauling unprofitable-to-gank loads won't keep them safe.


I tend to agree with RubyPorto, but just another prespective and perhaps not a very good one but would a mechanism that:
a: Extended the jump time when using Cyno’s for Jump Freighters;
b: Allowed for the destruction of Cyno’s while they are active; and
c: If a Cyno is destroyed while a JF is still in warp the JF is lost in Warp, effectively destroyed.
It is a bit of work but it would make a everything a Tad more interesting.


a: There's a fair delay between pressing jump and landing next to the cyno.
b: They can be, just kill the noobship.
c: If it is destroyed, the JF lands in a random spot in system. Easy prey for someone prepared with probes.



I'd still contend that there may be a benefit in extending the delay [sorry I've never noticed that much delay when jumping] and if the JF is in warp it should be either destroyed or at the least badly enough damaged to be easily gankable in a Concord system.

I agree that they should still need to scan the JF down if its not destroyed, but if it suffers damage the destruction becomes manageable for a small gang.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#64 - 2013-02-04 05:02:40 UTC
Mascen Carew wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Mascen Carew wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Die Unknown wrote:
A jump freighter in an NPC corp can operate 99.99%Evil risk free.


Suicide Gank them as they Jump into HS. As your goal is simply to hurt the big alliance, hauling unprofitable-to-gank loads won't keep them safe.


I tend to agree with RubyPorto, but just another prespective and perhaps not a very good one but would a mechanism that:
a: Extended the jump time when using Cyno’s for Jump Freighters;
b: Allowed for the destruction of Cyno’s while they are active; and
c: If a Cyno is destroyed while a JF is still in warp the JF is lost in Warp, effectively destroyed.
It is a bit of work but it would make a everything a Tad more interesting.


a: There's a fair delay between pressing jump and landing next to the cyno.
b: They can be, just kill the noobship.
c: If it is destroyed, the JF lands in a random spot in system. Easy prey for someone prepared with probes.



I'd still contend that there may be a benefit in extending the delay [sorry I've never noticed that much delay when jumping] and if the JF is in warp it should be either destroyed or at the least badly enough damaged to be easily gankable in a Concord system.

I agree that they should still need to scan the JF down if its not destroyed, but if it suffers damage the destruction becomes manageable for a small gang.


Ah, I see. You've never run a JF. Because if you had, you'd know that you can't cyno into HS.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Mascen Carew
Ordo Carnifex
#65 - 2013-02-04 05:07:40 UTC
Ah, I see. You've never run a JF. Because if you had, you'd know that [i]you can't cyno into HS

Correct Ruby not a JF Pilot, just Carrier I'm afraid.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-02-04 06:26:16 UTC
Die Unknown wrote:
It's not easy to unseat a powerful alliance. More often then not, large alliances are destroyed from within, as opposed to any military action by their enemies. With their large incomes, they can lose a titan on a Monday, and have it replaced on Monday.
TL;DR: I need about three fiddy



Minor correction made in bold. Large alliances sitting on high passive income sources, like renter networks, and moonsperm, have replacement contingencies set up already.
Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#67 - 2013-02-04 06:44:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Shamus O'Reilly
You can already destroy any corp or alliance ingame from the inside why attack NPC trade routes? If you wanna hit them that badly go to lowsec/null to areas they jump through often and try to get lucky.

Now on the other hand it just depends on how much time you wanna put into what you're doing and how much trust they are willing to give you Cool

Even looking well enough on youtube you can go see where people have nailed heists off of alliances (not all nullsec) corporations and entities in EVE. Ranging from a few hundred mill easily to billions upon hundreds of billions from larger and more asset heavy/isk heavy groups. Spin the wheel a bit more and you can nail a heist unnoticed and if you work it right paranoia starts getting envious of you itself. Human nature takes over and then it comes down to how strong the entity is in order for it to recoup.


Aka: If they trust you 100% you can get away with a theft and fingerblaming can occur. Make it harsh enough you'll start seeing the awoxing and pitchforks Twisted



In the end theres no reason for the ability to dec NPC corp alts. It'd just bore down to people deccing the noobish and indie ones just to get cheap kills

Edit: Cheap meaning easy and boring.

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."

Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#68 - 2013-02-04 06:53:30 UTC
Mascen Carew wrote:
Ah, I see. You've never run a JF. Because if you had, you'd know that [i]you can't cyno into HS

Correct Ruby not a JF Pilot, just Carrier I'm afraid.

I'm confused here. a JF cannot cyno into HS either. nothing jump capable can. Cynos cannot be lit in hisec. Though JFs and grandfathered caps still in hisec can lock onto cynos lit in low/null and jump FROM hisec. Possibly this is what you mean?

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#69 - 2013-02-04 07:15:26 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:
Mascen Carew wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Ah, I see. You've never run a JF. Because if you had, you'd know that you can't cyno into HS


Correct Ruby not a JF Pilot, just Carrier I'm afraid.

I'm confused here. a JF cannot cyno into HS either. nothing jump capable can. Cynos cannot be lit in hisec. Though JFs and grandfathered caps still in hisec can lock onto cynos lit in low/null and jump FROM hisec. Possibly this is what you mean?


That was exactly my point. He suggested some sort of weird damage mechanic to make it easier to gank JFs in HS. All it would actually do is change the requirements for choosing an appropriate cyno stations to include "has repair facilities" because no intelligent JF pilot is going to Jump to anywhere other than a LS station when making their last jump to leave Low/Null.


JFs are very easy to gank in HS. Just about anything is*. It's just expensive.

*Trying to do it profitably is what makes it difficult.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#70 - 2013-02-04 11:46:45 UTC
Tell us more about how easy it is to replace titans with jump freighters.


RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#71 - 2013-02-04 14:42:59 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Tell us more about how easy it is to replace titans with jump freighters.


Don't you see, you Jump all the JFs into the middle of a fight and press the Voltron button and they become a Teetan.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#72 - 2013-02-04 15:00:57 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
In the ASCN we used to run these giant convoys that consisted of a dozen or more freighters, and 300 or so escort ships. This usually took place once a month, and took A LOT of planning and prep work. There were no jump freighters and jump bridges at that time. And since warp to 0 did not exist, we had to make sure that every member of the fleet had the same set of insta bookmarks.

These convoys took an entire night to make the 40 some odd jumps (each way) to get to the destination after originating in ASCN null space. The following day we would usually handle the trip back and never tried to make the trek both ways in a single evening.

This doesn't just SOUND tedious.... IT WAS TEDIOUS,

Yet I miss it and wish they would have never implemented bridges and jump freighters.

It's not that I miss the act of participating in convoy duty in itself, but instead that I miss the days where alliances could strike a crippling blow against one another by intercepting/ambushing their supply convoys. That was something that I really liked about EVE, and it's kind of sad that such things are no longer an option as a way for alliances to strike at one another outside of simply launching an attack on their sov space.

Logistics interdiction added another level of paranoia to the game, and anything that can keep even the larger alliances constantly looking over their shoulder was and still is a good thing.

In our case, we had to keep a wary eye out for BOB and the MC.... Until they blew us up for good.
Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#73 - 2013-02-04 17:07:29 UTC
Simpler solution would be to make it so NPC corp members can not light or bridge to cynos.
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#74 - 2013-02-04 19:53:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Nuela
I understand the OP's frustration.

In my corp I am known as the only person who plays Eve and thinks the PvP sucks.

Well, Eve 'PvP' does suck. It's just not worth the effort. For some people it is but for many it isn't. When I get my PvP cravings (which is often) I go elsewhere.

The main problems with Eve PvP is that it is too easy to run away...to easy to reinforce a fight that is currently going on and, as the OP rails on...TOO HARD TO GET THE ENEMY TO ACTUALLY FIGHT.

What the OP wants is to force the enemy to fight and, if he declines, for that enemy to suffer profound consequences for not fighting.

However, while I agree with this, it is also much too easy for people to project force in this game. If CCP was to mitigate the above in a major way, they would also have to make it so that large alliances would have difficulty concentrating their force on smaller ones otherwise you would just have a few large bullies destroying everyone though numbers. THAT would be worse than what we have now.
Vexen Lyre
Doomheim
#75 - 2013-02-04 20:02:41 UTC
sacrilege...

eve PvP is super 1337. not many people can manage to mash five function keys after setting orbit distance to their nemesis.

Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#76 - 2013-02-04 20:55:44 UTC
im not entirely sure what Op is trying to say... Nerf NPC to nerf Goons maybe? Nerf freighters to nerf Null? Nerf X to somehow effect Y in an effort to prevent Z?

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#77 - 2013-02-04 21:01:57 UTC
Fredric Wolf wrote:
Simpler solution would be to make it so NPC corp members can not light or bridge to cynos.

Then you'd just have more corp hopping for cyno alts into an alt corp so as to remain somewhat anonymous

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#78 - 2013-02-04 22:35:06 UTC
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:
Fredric Wolf wrote:
Simpler solution would be to make it so NPC corp members can not light or bridge to cynos.

Then you'd just have more corp hopping for cyno alts into an alt corp so as to remain somewhat anonymous


Or one man cyno alt corps. Wardecs wouldn't exactly have a serious effect on the lives of cyno alts given the location in which they operate (wardecs used to be vaguely useful in LS if you were bashing a bunch of POSes so you wouldn't have to dock up under GCC, but Crimewatch 2.0 changed that).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#79 - 2013-02-04 23:09:43 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:
Oh, well in that case, next time I go through Rancer, I should pay concord to turn that into high security space for a day


This could be the best potential isk sink. People "bid" to put rancer under NPC/CONCORD control and allow people to counter bid that. Winner gets rancer for the day. Or the normal gamut of scum and villainy just suicide gank to spite people.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#80 - 2013-02-05 00:42:42 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
Vexen Lyre wrote:
sacrilege...

eve PvP is super 1337. not many people can manage to mash five function keys after setting orbit distance to their nemesis.


Until they realize that under most circumstances manual flight in a spiral to close the gap is a much better option when engaging your target. ;)

Most people say "Huh?" when you mention transversal velocity though.