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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Scientific program proposal

Author
DutchGunner
Circle of Abyss
Wicked Angels.
#1 - 2013-02-03 14:46:16 UTC
Good day my fellow capsuleers and those able to access the Intergalactic Summit.

Before getting to my proposal, I need to give a short introduction. I know that large entries are not appealing, so I'll keep it as short as possible.

My capsuleer name is DutchGunner. I decided to exchange my real name, for a nickname I got during the capsuleer program. I have a strong liking to the knowledge and use of firearms and improve my gunnery skills. This, combined with being a good shot, earned me the nickname of Duchess of Gunnery which turned into Gunnery Duchess and eventually into DutchGunner.

I consider myself to be one of the first generation capsuleers. I have seen the EvE universe change for better and worse. The one thing that stood out though, are the scientific breakthroughs. Crielere and the Arek'Jaalan project (which I helped by providing it's initial funding) has brought so much knowledge, understanding and scientific breakthroughs.

Having seen what can be achieved, I want to propose a new scientific project. The setup would be similar to Arek'Jaalan with an open platform and public publishing of the results. However the focus should be on the Sansha technology and how to counter their Incursions in a better way. I would prefer that the better understanding of military technology can also advance non-military technology and advance the EvE universe at large.

Now one of the bigger issues will be funding and overseeing the equal distribution of any discoveries made. It is my hope that CONCORD can be of assistance with the equal distribution among the Empires. For funding, I hope there are more capsuleers and maybe empire corporations who are willing to make funding available. I am no scientist, but I fight the Sansha Incursions and will put those funds available for the research.

For any support or questions, feel free to contact me.

Regards,

DutchGunner

Marcus Horalen
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-02-03 19:15:46 UTC
As an advocate for the advancement of New Eden, your proposal is intriguing. Having observed the Sansha Incursions I can agree that their technology might benefit the whole, but before any further judgement can be made, I suggest detailing exactly your aspirations. Scientific advancement is good, but equal distribution is a hard thing to come by.
DutchGunner
Circle of Abyss
Wicked Angels.
#3 - 2013-02-03 20:20:13 UTC
My aspirations are quite simple. To get a better understanding on how to fight the Sansha Incursions and at the same time see the advanced of military and non-military technology based on their designs. But to avoid these advancements to benefit only a few, that they can be used by all empires and corperations.
Ugleb
Jotunn Risi
#4 - 2013-02-03 20:55:01 UTC
Interesting proposal, are you planning to limit your studies to the Sansha tech behind their Incursions, or venture further afield?

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DutchGunner
Circle of Abyss
Wicked Angels.
#5 - 2013-02-03 21:18:46 UTC
I would very much like to venture further, looking at different fields of technology.

However at this time I consider the Sansha Incursions the biggest threat we face, so I give that top priority to start with. Hearing the rumors about foot soldiers with cloning technology available is also begging for further investigation.

However, as I believe that the biggest threat we are all facing today are the Sansha Incursions, that seems to be the most logical starting point.
Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-02-03 23:12:39 UTC
Well, at the very least I can commend this initiative for dispensing with the facade of impartiality and being honest about it's aims. It's true that the A'J project as a whole did make worthwhile contributions to the scientific community, which of course spread through other echelons and sectors of society, it was rife with personal squabbles and bias impeding the potential progress it could have made in many fields. Being clear about your goals and methodology will help prevent the internal divisions that stymied the A'J project.

However, despite my scientific curiosity I can't quite get behind this proposal. My reservations about this are three-fold. Firstly, without further details about the phrase "focusing on Sansha technology and how to counter their incursions" I have to assume the worst. That being the most effective military counter of totally eliminating the threat entirely. I won't go into all the fine details, but suffice it to say my position on genocide is "it's a bad thing."

My second concern is perhaps a bit premature but that makes it no less worth noting and proceeding with caution. In studying and countering Sansha technology, the more advanced understanding and manipulation of wormholes is inevitably going to come to the forefront. It's a remarkable achievement at first glance, and would be of amazing benefit to civilian, commercial, and military concerns. But to put this bluntly, I do not believe any of the empires are ready for such a profound shift in the means and capabilities of travel. Say what you will, the Sansha incursions were and still are violations of sovereignty and attacks on both military and civilian targets, but Nation isn't using these incursions to the same, total, effect that I suspect the empires would.

The third concern, and perhaps the most practical one considering who you are primarily appealing to for assistance, is that CONCORD most likely has a vested interest in preventing the proliferation of Sansha wormhole manipulation technology. It seems rather obvious to me that the ability to move capital class assets around all of New Eden, bypassing conventional security measures would push CONCORD to it's limits, perhaps even break them. After all, how does one keep the peace and prevent total war if a fleet is able to, in an instant, appear above the homeworld of a rival nation?
Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-02-04 01:57:51 UTC
I've already made a similar proposal, although one that wound not be so public that would be backed by the greatest spy agency New Eden has ever known, the GIA. If you are interested, please mail me.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.

Zero Vigilant
Adamantine Corporation
#8 - 2013-02-04 03:32:28 UTC
I wish to offer my own support in this, however for my corporation's support the Iron Wall would need to reach an agreement. Please stop by the Iron Cell whenever I'm available and we can discuss about starting this project. My small non-capsuleer division already working on research on Sansha technology already has a few hypotheses and I would be happy to discuss them with you.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#9 - 2013-02-04 13:26:16 UTC
It goes without saying, but any attempt by non-Nation-loyal capsuleers to study Nation Wormhole Technology will be opposed in the harshest possible terms.
Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-02-04 14:42:27 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
It goes without saying, but any attempt by non-Nation-loyal capsuleers to study Nation Wormhole Technology will be opposed in the harshest possible terms.


Please come to VFK and stop me. Please.

It's a neat trick you do, your lips move but Kuvakei's voice comes out. Freaking Nation slaves. Cripes, you all weird me out.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.

DutchGunner
Circle of Abyss
Wicked Angels.
#11 - 2013-02-04 16:40:39 UTC
Uraniae Fehrnah wrote:
Well, at the very least I can commend this initiative for dispensing with the facade of impartiality and being honest about it's aims. It's true that the A'J project as a whole did make worthwhile contributions to the scientific community, which of course spread through other echelons and sectors of society, it was rife with personal squabbles and bias impeding the potential progress it could have made in many fields. Being clear about your goals and methodology will help prevent the internal divisions that stymied the A'J project.

However, despite my scientific curiosity I can't quite get behind this proposal. My reservations about this are three-fold. Firstly, without further details about the phrase "focusing on Sansha technology and how to counter their incursions" I have to assume the worst. That being the most effective military counter of totally eliminating the threat entirely. I won't go into all the fine details, but suffice it to say my position on genocide is "it's a bad thing."

My second concern is perhaps a bit premature but that makes it no less worth noting and proceeding with caution. In studying and countering Sansha technology, the more advanced understanding and manipulation of wormholes is inevitably going to come to the forefront. It's a remarkable achievement at first glance, and would be of amazing benefit to civilian, commercial, and military concerns. But to put this bluntly, I do not believe any of the empires are ready for such a profound shift in the means and capabilities of travel. Say what you will, the Sansha incursions were and still are violations of sovereignty and attacks on both military and civilian targets, but Nation isn't using these incursions to the same, total, effect that I suspect the empires would.

The third concern, and perhaps the most practical one considering who you are primarily appealing to for assistance, is that CONCORD most likely has a vested interest in preventing the proliferation of Sansha wormhole manipulation technology. It seems rather obvious to me that the ability to move capital class assets around all of New Eden, bypassing conventional security measures would push CONCORD to it's limits, perhaps even break them. After all, how does one keep the peace and prevent total war if a fleet is able to, in an instant, appear above the homeworld of a rival nation?


Thank you for some very good questions miss Fehrnah. I'll answer them all and hopefully i'll ease your concerns.

I have no desire or wish to resort to the genocide of Sansha Nation or it's sympathizers. All are free to make their own choices and deal with any consequences those choices result in. My goal is to stop their Incursions of high-sec, low-sec and 0.0 space.
Having clarified that, we automatically get to your second and third point. If we succeed in finding a solution to counter their wormhole manipulation technology, I believe there is only 1 party who should employ it, and that's CONCORD. CONCORD has provided with alternative means to settle disputes and made it possible for the Empires to become what they are today.
I have faith that, if we succeed, CONCORD will be able to deploy the needed equipment or technology to prevent the Sansha Incursions of taking place within high-sec and low-sec. The technology should also be shared with the inhabitants of 0.0 space, but CONCORD has no juristiction there, so sharing the counter with those who live there seems the best solution.

Having an understanding of how their technology works should also lead to the ways to counter them. That would mean that even if others would be able to have acces to the wormhole manipulation technology, they won't be able to us that technology the way Sansha does it now, because it's countered.

For those who have offered their support publicly or requested a personal conversation, I will contact you as soon as possible. The same goes for those who contact me directly.


As for the statement of mr. Thessalonia. I expected no less then to be opposed. I have no problem with being the Figurehead, while others do their research from their own base, corperation or alliance. I promise I will do what i can do create anonymity for those who want to participate. But we'll cross that bridge once we get there.
Marcus Horalen
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-02-04 17:26:42 UTC
I have my own reasons for distrusting CONCORD, as they abstained from their duties as protectors of the peace that caused the Minmatar incursion into Amarr space some years ago at the time of the One Day War. That does not mean to say that CONCORD isn't playing their part now and performing admirably.

Your cause for studying Sansha's technology appears to me to be just, and you have my support.
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#13 - 2013-02-04 17:39:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Evi Polevhia
Do tell, what has Nation done to you? Let me rephrase. What has Nation done to your country that other countries haven't done ten times worse? Why do people wish to eradicate Nation when the neighboring Empires pose a far greater threat?

More die in Militia battles then in Incursions (Unless you count Nation's losses, which are staggeringly high in CONCORD policed areas), the Amarr have....'relocated' more people the Nation ever has. So much so that the Amarrian Reclaiming has had a measurable effect on the Matari people. While Nation Uplifting, has barely touched the population numbers by comparison.

So I ask, what has Nation done to deserve this response when there is far greater loss of life, brutality, theft, and general mayhem in Low Security space then Kuvakei has ever caused?
DutchGunner
Circle of Abyss
Wicked Angels.
#14 - 2013-02-04 18:04:46 UTC
Mister Horalen,

thank you for your support. Have we not all made errors in the paste? Though CONCORD was overwhelmed when their HQ was destroyed, they still serve their original purpose, and indeed do it admirable. I still have absolute faith in CONCORD and therefore would like to have them in the information loop on the progress of this project.


Miss Polevhia,

you appear to have either missed my purpose or are deliberately trying to not see it. Therefore let me be as clear as possible. This research would be to stop the Incursions from Sansha Nation. The goal is not to stop Sansha Nation.
You are entitled to your views, however at this time they are not contributing to the project. Therefore If you wish to discuss the merits or horrors of the Emergency Militia War Powers Act feel free to do so, but this isn't the place for it.


Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#15 - 2013-02-04 18:28:15 UTC
My apologies, I misread.
Anslo
Scope Works
#16 - 2013-02-04 18:37:44 UTC
So, what exactly do you want? Like from people? From me? What do you want me to do? I see what you wanna do, but not what I need to do.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

DutchGunner
Circle of Abyss
Wicked Angels.
#17 - 2013-02-04 18:49:29 UTC
I'm afraid i don't have a clear answer to your question mr. Anslo. The best answer I could give you, is a question in return: what can you do for this project?

I do not want to force people into this project. They have to be willing to support it and contribute in the way they think they can contribute the most.

Here is a quick list of things i can think of that you can do.


  • Ask good questions that you want to see answered
  • Gathering sensor data and make visual reports about encounters
  • Gathering Sansha technology so it can be researched to give insights in how it works
  • sending probes to the stationary Wormhole that the Sansha have left behind
  • Research the workings of wormholes and how the result might be duplicated
  • Go through the Incursion combat sites and see what information can be gathered
  • Give feedback on research being done and theories being crafted
  • Gather more people (both capsuleer and non-capsuleer) to give more views on the matter
  • Start making preperations for the rebuilding of the systems affected by the Incursions


I sense that you are willing to help, but unsure on how and if you are able to contribute. i hope this list has given you more insights or has given you a staging area to start from.
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#18 - 2013-02-04 19:13:30 UTC
DutchGunner wrote:

Gathering sensor data and make visual reports about encounters


I can supply you with the data on their ship types and specifications as well as sensor data taken on everything from their smallest frigate and fighter bomber to their Revenant class supercarrier. I've seen more then a few blueprints pass through as well, though getting your hands on those could be costly.

DutchGunner wrote:
Gathering Sansha technology so it can be researched to give insights in how it works


The easiest way actually is checking local markets for salvage. My ship actually has one such system that is made with their tech, a power diagnostic system. Runs very well too. However if you mean how their wormhole tech works, I'm afraid that either the ships that come through do not have this tech and there is another ship we have not seen responsible for these, or they have some sort of failsafe mechanism that destroys whatever it is that creates those portals if the ship is in danger. Because I've never seen nor heard of any of that tech being recovered. And I've been on scene for many Nation ships being destroyed and salvaged.

DutchGunner wrote:
sending probes to the stationary Wormhole that the Sansha have left behind


Those from what I've heard tend to be severely guarded and not around for long.

DutchGunner wrote:
Go through the Incursion combat sites and see what information can be gathered


Feel free to ask whatever you want. I or other pilots who have been in Incursions could answer.
Anslo
Scope Works
#19 - 2013-02-04 20:21:56 UTC
DutchGunner wrote:
I'm afraid i don't have a clear answer to your question mr. Anslo. The best answer I could give you, is a question in return: what can you do for this project?

I do not want to force people into this project. They have to be willing to support it and contribute in the way they think they can contribute the most.

Here is a quick list of things i can think of that you can do.


  • Ask good questions that you want to see answered
  • Gathering sensor data and make visual reports about encounters
  • Gathering Sansha technology so it can be researched to give insights in how it works
  • sending probes to the stationary Wormhole that the Sansha have left behind
  • Research the workings of wormholes and how the result might be duplicated
  • Go through the Incursion combat sites and see what information can be gathered
  • Give feedback on research being done and theories being crafted
  • Gather more people (both capsuleer and non-capsuleer) to give more views on the matter
  • Start making preperations for the rebuilding of the systems affected by the Incursions


I sense that you are willing to help, but unsure on how and if you are able to contribute. i hope this list has given you more insights or has given you a staging area to start from.


Makes sense I guess. Broad but makes sense. You should try to have a more defined goals instead on big over arching goal of understand Sansha tech. Set small goals and start meeting them bit by bit. If we know what you want exactly, we can help.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

DutchGunner
Circle of Abyss
Wicked Angels.
#20 - 2013-02-04 21:12:10 UTC
Miss Polevhia,


I am happy to see your objections change into support of the project. I would be happy to have you participating in this project. For additional information, i'll refer to my reply to mr. Anslo.
Thank you for your willingness to assist the project. Should you be interested to participate , feel free to send me a personal message, or state it here if you don't mind being known as a supporter.


Mr. Anslo,

I am currently working on making a contactlist of those who wish to participate in the project.

All participants will receive messages and update, goals and further information once i have the list complete. Should those who are interested later on join in, I will get them up to speed at that time.

There will not be a mailing list, nor a forum. This is to ensure the safety of the project and it's participants as much as possible. It will result in additional work, but a much bigger security.

The project will have specific goals and stepping stones. Should you be interested, feel free to send me a personal message, or state it here if you don't mind being known as a supporter.
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