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Hit them where it hurts
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NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2013-02-03 20:56:16 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:

Sovereignty is pretty expensive to hold now; https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sovereignty_guide And as for EHP they go down easy enough considering the DPS that can be applied. Check out dotlan, they are changing hands every day.

I do think that sovereignty out in null is too powerful as far as protecting your resource extraction. It would be great if there was a way to steal moon goo or to hanger up out there so that reds could rat and plex in enemy space.

Expensive What?
I can do 10 systems plex and still have pvp money easily and all I do is manufacture.
So yeah 180 mil a month per system
Really needs to be more especially as the alliance grows.
180 mil a month a player a system is chump change in null.
Maybe 1.8 billion would be better as then you would need a few people working on it and it would still allow small people while forcing larger groups to choose more (system cost would outstrip player supply far more readily thus making for a soft cap)
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#42 - 2013-02-03 21:16:51 UTC
Die Unknown wrote:
A jump freighter in an NPC corp can operate 99.99% risk free.


Suicide Gank them as they Jump into HS. As your goal is simply to hurt the big alliance, hauling unprofitable-to-gank loads won't keep them safe.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#43 - 2013-02-03 21:38:36 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:

Sovereignty is pretty expensive to hold now; https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sovereignty_guide And as for EHP they go down easy enough considering the DPS that can be applied. Check out dotlan, they are changing hands every day.

I do think that sovereignty out in null is too powerful as far as protecting your resource extraction. It would be great if there was a way to steal moon goo or to hanger up out there so that reds could rat and plex in enemy space.

Expensive What?
I can do 10 systems plex and still have pvp money easily and all I do is manufacture.
So yeah 180 mil a month per system
Really needs to be more especially as the alliance grows.
180 mil a month a player a system is chump change in null.
Maybe 1.8 billion would be better as then you would need a few people working on it and it would still allow small people while forcing larger groups to choose more (system cost would outstrip player supply far more readily thus making for a soft cap)

Why should big alliances have to pay more to hold sov?

I do think that holding Sov on empty / underused systems could be looked at. Maybe lower resource extraction would lead to vulnerability and lower EHP of the TCU. Something to make it a pain to hold a bunch of space for nothing more than the moongoo or whatever is king.

Thats not a bad idea, big corps with lots of land would be encouraged to recruit settlers to work those systems in order to keep the TCU. Then rather than just CONCORD highsec players would have the option of getting protection from a big alliance.
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2013-02-03 23:46:12 UTC
Vexen Lyre wrote:

The point I'm making is that individuals aren't wartargets, but rather the corporation or alliance they're a member of is and if a corpration attacks an individual then that's really a hit. maybe there should be a mechanic for that but 50M for an entire alliance to have free kill rights on a character for a week is quite a bargain.

besides, this is just another permutation of the wardeccing npc corps fixing the game delusion. all it will accomplish is causing everyone to dock up the moment they see a wartarget in system, just like people in null do when they see an unalligned pilot in local.

then the people agitating for this will shut up because no immediate in local leaves them at risk from stealth bombers.


Your inability to defend yourself has to do with you not being willing to organize into groups or learn to fight. A greater threat demands a greater defense, sure, but at what point does that defense stop being CCPs responsibility and start being yours?

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#45 - 2013-02-03 23:59:49 UTC
I was going to reply to Vexans post there, I just couldn't figure out how to get back from all that wrong.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#46 - 2013-02-04 00:08:10 UTC
I go back and forth with the NPC corp thing. Maybe a corp sales tax on all transactions for members of one; 10% right off the top of every purchase, sale, and bounty to discourage traders from staying NPC. And limited docking space, and no advanced ships, to discourage mission runners and hauler alts.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#47 - 2013-02-04 00:10:33 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
hey op, you can gank freighters of all kinds in highsec, it's called suicide ganking, figure it out.


That require effort wich is beyond many people's limit...


HTFU?

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-02-04 00:12:31 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
I go back and forth with the NPC corp thing. Maybe a corp sales tax on all transactions for members of one; 10% right off the top of every purchase, sale, and bounty to discourage traders from staying NPC. And limited docking space, and no advanced ships, to discourage mission runners and hauler alts.


So people will join one man corps and leave said corps when they are wardecced to join new corps they just created to avoid prior wardec.

Problem solved.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
#49 - 2013-02-04 00:17:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarvos Telesto
Hit them where it hurts - ignore them and stop fight vs them, imagine 200 fleet vs 400 man fleet with better ships etc near gate,, and these people from 400 man fleet say to enemy sory guys we got better things to do, we can easy win but fighting vs you is waste of ammo, we leave system, imagine these people sad face...

EvE isn't game, its style of living.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#50 - 2013-02-04 00:18:55 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
I go back and forth with the NPC corp thing. Maybe a corp sales tax on all transactions for members of one; 10% right off the top of every purchase, sale, and bounty to discourage traders from staying NPC. And limited docking space, and no advanced ships, to discourage mission runners and hauler alts.


So people will join one man corps and leave said corps when they are wardecced to join new corps they just created to avoid prior wardec.

Problem solved.


Yeah I know...Its just depressing. Eve is so much fun and people just want to hide and grind.
Vexen Lyre
Doomheim
#51 - 2013-02-04 00:41:10 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Your inability to defend yourself has to do with you not being willing to organize into groups or learn to fight. A greater threat demands a greater defense, sure, but at what point does that defense stop being CCPs responsibility and start being yours?


me? i don't undock, buddy. no problem there while this door stays shut.

i just play the game that exists. the game that encourages you to split activities across characters. I am available for PvP on one of them and die quite frequently for your pleasure.

i also disbelieve the safety in numbers in highsec theory. i'm pretty sure my corpmates would likely manage to make me a collective target and then bail on me at the first sign of a sustained threat. hence highsec me solos and hides because that is an excellent defense here.

Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#52 - 2013-02-04 00:48:21 UTC
How long have you been playing Vexen?
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#53 - 2013-02-04 00:50:08 UTC
I was just thinking of starting thread asking how many people who have started Eve in the last 3 years have stayed with the game? And is that % higher or lower than what it was 7 or 8 years ago.
Vexen Lyre
Doomheim
#54 - 2013-02-04 00:53:00 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
How long have you been playing Vexen?


nearly a year. i've got one guy roughly where he needs to be for making ISK and now it's all about frigates and very cheap pew pew on the other.

Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#55 - 2013-02-04 00:55:33 UTC
Excellent. Welcome to Eve and grats on sticking it out. I think the vast majority of people in your shoes don't last and never figure it out.
Vexen Lyre
Doomheim
#56 - 2013-02-04 01:08:21 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Excellent. Welcome to Eve and grats on sticking it out. I think the vast majority of people in your shoes don't last and never figure it out.


thanks. i think eve is about possibilities and that's the appeal. that you can do unconventional things with this game is a big draw.

it's obviously massively flawed but work with it seems like a good philosophy.

Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#57 - 2013-02-04 01:56:25 UTC
Die Unknown wrote:
It's not easy to unseat a powerful alliance. More often then not, large alliances are destroyed from within, as opposed to any military action by their enemies. With their large incomes, they can lose a titan on a Monday, and have it replaced on Tuesday.

Here lies the problem; prolonged military campaigns are completely ineffective in upsetting the status quo. Sure, we still have the ability to infiltrate and destroy from within, but that's not so difficult to protect against. More importantly, that should not be the only option. INR, logistics are everything, and any disruption wreaks havoc. This is a problem Alliances are almost entirely immune to in Eve.

Not only has logistics in Eve have been simplified over time, there aren't any tools available to us to disrupt them altogether. A jump freighter in an NPC corp can operate 99.99% risk free. So no matter how many titans and motherships you blow up, big power blocks have an uninterpretable faucet of isk they can replace them with.

No one should be able to hide in an NPC corp. The solution is simple, we should be able to wardeck individuals in an NPC corp. They could still join or form player corporations, but the wardeck will follow them. This introduces a new level of complexity that we sorely need.

TL;DR: I need about three fiddy


You're mistaken; it is possible. It is just unlikely to be easy.

Scorched Earth: Raze their production funnels to the ground in Lowsec, find and eliminate their Highsec Alts sources of income, destroy their Alt freighters ferrying goods, and those that aren't. Wardec, camp, attack the marketable goods on which they rely for production of their most powerful weapons.


I think it would take about a year to seriously affect most of them doing this though.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#58 - 2013-02-04 02:19:41 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
NEONOVUS wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:

Sovereignty is pretty expensive to hold now; https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sovereignty_guide And as for EHP they go down easy enough considering the DPS that can be applied. Check out dotlan, they are changing hands every day.

I do think that sovereignty out in null is too powerful as far as protecting your resource extraction. It would be great if there was a way to steal moon goo or to hanger up out there so that reds could rat and plex in enemy space.

Expensive What?
I can do 10 systems plex and still have pvp money easily and all I do is manufacture.
So yeah 180 mil a month per system
Really needs to be more especially as the alliance grows.
180 mil a month a player a system is chump change in null.
Maybe 1.8 billion would be better as then you would need a few people working on it and it would still allow small people while forcing larger groups to choose more (system cost would outstrip player supply far more readily thus making for a soft cap)

Why should big alliances have to pay more to hold sov?

I do think that holding Sov on empty / underused systems could be looked at. Maybe lower resource extraction would lead to vulnerability and lower EHP of the TCU. Something to make it a pain to hold a bunch of space for nothing more than the moongoo or whatever is king.

Thats not a bad idea, big corps with lots of land would be encouraged to recruit settlers to work those systems in order to keep the TCU. Then rather than just CONCORD highsec players would have the option of getting protection from a big alliance.

Space is limited surprisingly.
Therefore what ever you hold is worth more solely because you hold it.
Thus the rate for you holding the now more valuable space should increase.
This would effect the need to make the space productive as opposed to merely using it as a buffer/ its there area.
From this you would also see a more available amount of space as an alliance may only acquire so much before it is stopped by being unable to afford.
Currently that limit is far to high.
Thus under this proposal the small and the large take a hit but the large takes a bigger hit, as is the intention of a progressive system
As I pointed out I can currently hold 10 systems and plex each month with this account.
Under the revised rules I would be in a far more difficult position to expand beyond 2 systems if that.
Thus I while small can still play but by the same token the alliance I am part of may very well take 10 of me just to hold each system let alone if it has upgrades.
(This also helps with the whole tech moon thing as now a significant chunk is going to holding the system as opposed to buying ships. Probably wont hurt cap proliferation as they could still mine the minerals instead of market. Ooh pvp targets)
Mascen Carew
Ordo Carnifex
#59 - 2013-02-04 04:40:22 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Die Unknown wrote:
A jump freighter in an NPC corp can operate 99.99%Evil risk free.


Suicide Gank them as they Jump into HS. As your goal is simply to hurt the big alliance, hauling unprofitable-to-gank loads won't keep them safe.


I tend to agree with RubyPorto, but just another prespective and perhaps not a very good one but would a mechanism that:
a: Extended the jump time when using Cyno’s for Jump Freighters;
b: Allowed for the destruction of Cyno’s while they are active; and
c: If a Cyno is destroyed while a JF is still in warp the JF is lost in Warp, effectively destroyed.
It is a bit of work but it would make a everything a Tad more interesting.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#60 - 2013-02-04 04:45:37 UTC
Mascen Carew wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Die Unknown wrote:
A jump freighter in an NPC corp can operate 99.99%Evil risk free.


Suicide Gank them as they Jump into HS. As your goal is simply to hurt the big alliance, hauling unprofitable-to-gank loads won't keep them safe.


I tend to agree with RubyPorto, but just another prespective and perhaps not a very good one but would a mechanism that:
a: Extended the jump time when using Cyno’s for Jump Freighters;
b: Allowed for the destruction of Cyno’s while they are active; and
c: If a Cyno is destroyed while a JF is still in warp the JF is lost in Warp, effectively destroyed.
It is a bit of work but it would make a everything a Tad more interesting.


a: There's a fair delay between pressing jump and landing next to the cyno.
b: They can be, just kill the noobship.
c: If it is destroyed, the JF lands in a random spot in system. Easy prey for someone prepared with probes.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon