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The sad Homogenization and Streamlining of Ships
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Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#21 - 2013-02-03 22:12:00 UTC
killorbekilled TBE wrote:
You forget that the mining vessels in this game are developed by ORE which isn't a race as such but a company

you could argue that there is only one developer of mining barges and give ORE some competition by introducing another mining company that develops its own competing variant of mining barges / vessels

discuss


I MIGHT be able to see that working some how....

Maybe this new developer could make "combat capable" miners for low/null? Maybe make a capital miner to finally pick up on the low supply of minerals ever since drone poo was removed?

The Drake is a Lie
bufnitza calatoare
#22 - 2013-02-03 22:14:02 UTC
Gryphon Infinite wrote:
I do not like seeing ships like the Venture. I like more of the variety, like for example - a mining frigate for each race type.

Instead we have 1 look, 1 ship, streamlined.

A miner frigate of each race choice, would offer more choice. More looks, and different gameplay - because of the differing stats on playstyles on each race's ship.



if you wish to be taken even 50% seriously... don't post with an alt.
Dave Stark
#23 - 2013-02-03 23:30:42 UTC
i've seen some ****, and this is up there with some of the worst threads i've ever opened.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#24 - 2013-02-04 01:18:50 UTC
Venture is an ORE ship; it is not an Empire Faction ship. There is no need to make multiple versions of a ship that all do the same thing.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-02-04 02:28:02 UTC
Gryphon Infinite wrote:
I do not like seeing ships like the Venture. I like more of the variety, like for example - a mining frigate for each race type.

Instead we have 1 look, 1 ship, streamlined.

A miner frigate of each race choice, would offer more choice. More looks, and different gameplay - because of the differing stats on playstyles on each race's ship.



You do realize that this is an ORE mining frigate. In the same way the barges are built by ORE and not racial so is the Venture...I'm not seeing the issue.

Don't ban me, bro!
Wigglenomics
C O C A I N E
#26 - 2013-02-04 02:29:27 UTC


...the ships are gay??
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#27 - 2013-02-04 03:53:55 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
Gryphon Infinite wrote:
I do not like seeing ships like the Venture. I like more of the variety, like for example - a mining frigate for each race type.

Instead we have 1 look, 1 ship, streamlined.

A miner frigate of each race choice, would offer more choice. More looks, and different gameplay - because of the differing stats on playstyles on each race's ship.

You do realize that this is an ORE mining frigate. In the same way the barges are built by ORE and not racial so is the Venture...I'm not seeing the issue.

We used to have a "mining frigate" for each race. They weren't used.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kytayn
Kronos TEchnologies
#28 - 2013-02-04 04:23:00 UTC
I too prefer my socks to match my suspenders.

Be careful in Pulsar systems, you might get Pod Flu.

(Bio for YouTube reading)
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#29 - 2013-02-04 04:54:27 UTC
Gryphon Infinite wrote:
More looks, and different gameplay - because of the differing stats on playstyles on each race's ship.


Explain to me how fitting 2 non-strip miners and cargoexpanders to 4 different looking ships.... while mining the same stupid rock extremely slowly for years on end gives me "different gameplay" when compared to using a venture....

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
#30 - 2013-02-04 05:01:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Terranid Meester
Clearly the differentiation should be in HOW you mine [as in the mechanics], rather than what you mine in.
Not that I mine of course, unless salvaging counts as mining.

Each asteroid being comprised of different ores that you have to detect through a new interface and maybe mine through to get through to the juicy centre and maybe even find a rare artifact or two or bore through to a rogue drones resting place [which may be where you get the artifacts from]. Exploding ore, mercoxit in empire space, false mercoxit, damaging asteroids [as in the fanfest video], building asteroids into a base etc.

Turning roids into orbital bombarment weapons ala planetary annihilation.
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-02-04 05:55:30 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Whats the point of having many ship for a role you skip withing about 3 days?


I think the point of a ship like the Venture is that you don't fly it for 3 days and then forget it exists. With the gas harvesting bonus and +2 warp strength and as cheap as it is . . . it's true to its description. It works very well for mining in hostile space, where a mining barge would probably die, and the risk would deter all mining activity. It's the Rifter of mining vessels.

The more general comment that "streamlining" ships makes the gameplay less . . . interesting, that just doesn't ring true, to me. Since the frigate buff, I've seen plenty of different shiptypes, Merlins, Tristans, Incursi, Condors, etc. which I very rarely saw before. Rifter used to be the be-all, end-all frigate. Now there actually is variety in space, not just on paper. Even in a ship like the Venture, I am seeing many more of them out. I am seeing people mining things in places that I wouldn't have, before. Having used a large percentage of the ships that were buffed BEFORE they were buffed, I can say with certainty that they have been made BETTER and I am more apt to use a larger variety of ships, now.

It's nice to have variety, but if there is one overwhelmingly better choice than the rest, then variety is kind of meaningless. The new variety is more meaningful.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-02-04 06:24:28 UTC
I'm just going to start off by saying, I realize in advance that this is probably just a troll thread, and I'm being suckered in by replying, however:

No ships were homogenized as a result of the addition of the venture.

All the previous (UNEXCEPTIONAL) mining frigates and cruisers, were repurposed, to serve logistical, or other roles. Ones for which there was previously no ships performing their role, at that size class, or anywhere near as well as they now can.

Instead, a NEW ship was added, providing an easier entry point for noobs, that maintains a higher income level, better suits the role (in terms of performance, survivability, and ease of use), and fits in with the higher end ORE vessels, like mining barges, and exhumers.

This was long needed, as there was a discrepency in the ship lines.

So no, you are wrong on all accounts.

The end.

3/10 trolling effort because you got me to post, so at least other noobs don't buy into your crap.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-02-04 08:05:51 UTC
Gryphon Infinite wrote:
I am TALKING about a mining fleet, for example a caldari one, full of the same corp of players. If they are in low sec - Their will be miners + haulers + fighters to protect + scouts and support.


Yeah, this doesn't actually happen. Why would a corp have fighters to protect the miners when they could just have more miners? They're all in frigates & can warp away as soon as someone appears on grid.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2013-02-04 08:36:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
I mostly agree with OP's point.

The introduction of new specialized ships and the clear definition of each ship's supposed role (emphasized a lot during tiericide) threatens the "the fitting makes the ship" philosophy of EVE.

The idea that each ship is a relatively blank slate waiting to be defined by its fitting allows for creative fittings and an ever-changing metagame.

In my opinion it is much more interesting to have a small set of hulls that you can fit for entirely different roles than to have many highly specialized ships each of which have a "correct" role and is mostly useless outside that role.

An Apocalypse can be an heavily armor tanked pulse platform, it can be a shield sniper, it can be a mining ship, ...

A Retriever is a mining ship. There probably is an objectively optimal fitting for it.


Don't destroy the philosophy that brought you gems like the 1400mm artillery abaddon! TwistedPTwisted

.
Yolanta Geezenstack
GWA Corp
#35 - 2013-02-04 08:37:05 UTC
Gryphon Infinite wrote:
I am not understanding you exactly - can you please rephrase or expand on your statement?


I guess Nicolo means that there are much more important problems in EVE then variety of mining frigates.

If CCP had unlimited resources, they could easily spend them on developing (and balancing!) different mining frigates. But they haven't.

Until then: Not every Venture is the same. You can fit them in different ways and use them for different stuff.
Washichu May
Psilocybin Research
#36 - 2013-02-04 08:50:42 UTC
If you had 4 different newbie mining frigates, everybody would fly the one that gives best yield, or protest if their particular racial mining frigate had worse yield then those of other races, and demand nerf/homogenization.

And then you are back to square one.

So venture is fine.
Ai Shun
#37 - 2013-02-04 08:51:35 UTC
Gryphon Infinite wrote:
Its a growing corp of new players, and they are mainly caldari, in caldari space in and around hi sec.
They are collecting Caldari frigate blueprints, and doing research and copying on them etc.
They will make merlins and kestrels and condors, as their fighters in their fleets. For pvp / escorting haulers / protecting miners.
They will make herons for the eyes, for scouting space.
They will make Bantams and Griffins, as their logistics and Ewar support in pvp.
They will produce their mining frigates, for the miners in the corp. The miners will go mine, and the fighter ships will protect them.


I beg your pardon? Any self respecting Caldari would know that ORE has captured the market on Mining vessels and that their technology is more advanced. Why waste your ISK chasing somebody so far ahead in the market?

There were mining frigates produced by Caldari, Amarrians and others. Think of the Bantam. The fact that ORE has once again released a hull that is literally light years ahead in technology has already forced a redesign of the Bantam and as of YC114 it no longer doubles as a mining frigate.

So no, a smart Caldari corp will not product a mining frigate. They will use the best ship out there which is the ORE product and focus the might of the Caldari corporations on more appropriate research and development.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#38 - 2013-02-04 08:59:23 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
Each race already had a mining frigate that nobody used. Why bother making more?
Ai Shun
#39 - 2013-02-04 09:00:52 UTC
JC Anderson wrote:
race alrieady yada mining frigate


I sincerely hope you are not operating heavy machinery of Cruiser class or upwards in that state!
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-02-04 09:00:59 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
I mostly agree with OP's point.

The introduction of new specialized ships and the clear definition of each ship's supposed role (emphasized a lot during tiericide) threatens the "the fitting makes the ship" philosophy of EVE.

The idea that each ship is a relatively blank slate waiting to be defined by its fitting allows for creative fittings and an ever-changing metagame.



OLD: 4 frigates with mining bonuses
New: 1 frigate with mining bonuses, 4 frigates with remote rep bonuses (or other things, some of the frigs got swapped around, but thats the main new thing)

Care to point out which of these previous mining ships could do stuff OTHER than mining effectively before, that cannot now do other stuff equally if not more effectively now, so roles have not been reduced, but infact increased?

There has been no change, because of the venture, REDUCING the roles a ship can perform.
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