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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Players in NPC Corps should not be able to:

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Vexen Lyre
Doomheim
#41 - 2013-02-04 01:22:39 UTC
It's high time CCP dealt with this NPC corp scourge for good.

Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#42 - 2013-02-04 01:23:22 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Sol Weinstein wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Sol Weinstein wrote:
It was a personal attack. The reason that caused you to attack me isn't even important.

Yes, those systems DO get mined out. But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a change in the system. Belts can be added. Or [other things] can be done to change that fact.

This is how discussion works. You start with an idea and go from there.

Thank you.


the mining system doesn't need changing. why would we change a perfectly fine system to accommodate an even worse system being introduced?

not quite sure you understand how "improvements" work.

your suggestions add nothing to the game.


I disagree that my suggestions add nothing to the game. It would add a protection to PRCs from people who abuse the NPC Corporation Exploit.

I won't even suggest that you yourself are abusing the system. Because, that would be a personal attack on you. I will have faith that you have never once used your protection inside an NPC corp to place a 100k bounty on someone with no risk to yourself or your main characters. Just like you don't use the same character in the NPC corp to protect your main character from getting any backlash inside the game.

My tongue is firmly planted in my cheek as I say those last two sentences.

Your sig:

"100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system."

Thank you.


this *is* my main character. i don't use an NPC corp alt to post/do my dirty work. i use an NPC corp character as my main character because the simple fact is; player corps have nothing to offer me.

i fail to see how using an npc corp character to shield a player from backlash is any different to using an alt in a player corp that they never log in, just create a character on an account, put it in a random player corp and send it isk to create bounties. not letting npc corp player use the bounty feature doesn't stop people being able to be "immune to backlash" it just means they have to click 2 more buttons to place a bounty.

it would be quicker, easier, and less hassle to just remove NPC corps if you truly have an issue with them. because your list of "demands" really are ill thought out and terrible. there's no getting around that.


This post wasn't about multiple characters on the same account created to avoid the system. This post is about people (maybe not you specifically) using the 'protection' of an NPC corp to act like a player in a PRC. Your response is talking about something totally different. Feel free to make your own thread regarding multiple characters on the same account (or other accounts) created with the intent to abuse the system.

A second character (on the same account or other account) should be used to play in a different style than the others. Or it can be used to play the game the exact same way but with a different identity. A second account should not be used to abuse the systems of the game. But, once again, feel free to make your own thread discussing this.

Thank you.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#43 - 2013-02-04 01:23:56 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Wahh? Shocked

Why is it, people insist on thinking they are the only ones with an opinion?
You need to play more, and worry less about what other players are doing....



This+

The first 2 I can see maybe, everything else is not any good, people have alts that do many things for them and could you imagine if we all had one toon then people could grief you to death leading to quitting which CCP is a business they are not gonna change this besides you know how many people do pay for alts in NPC corps to do things for their main...not gonna happen.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-02-04 01:24:55 UTC
Sol Weinstein wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Can I ask you a serious question...

Do you think CCP is going to enact changes that will detrimentally affect a large portion of their player base?

We discussed this in my thread of how the forums caused CCP to change the game when it comes to mining barges being buffed because of the threads complaing about ganking.

Can you imagine the threadnaughts that will ensue if your changes were enacted?


I'm not sure what is going to happen. This is why the post was made. I think changes need to be made so I created a post about it. It's the first step. One small post for PRCs; one giant leap for a better gameplay experience. Gotta start somewhere.

Thank you.


Well you have to keep in mind if people are in NPC corps and using that system a great deal that they must really enjoy the benefits of said system.

When you propose major changes to said system, you must realize that people are not going to like said changes and there will have some major resistance to such a suggestion.

If you had taken some time to consider "Will the majority of EvE player accept this change?" then you have to come to conlusion at least the people in the NPC corps would not accept this change, then you have to consider how much of the player base will reject your ideas.

And you can't get to that point simply by posting a forum post. You get some idea, but people don't come out of the woodwork until something really bothers them.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#45 - 2013-02-04 01:25:54 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Sol Weinstein wrote:
I disagree that my suggestions add nothing to the game.

True. They add a lot of limitations to it. Heartless, selfish, mean and unnecessary limitations, which is far worse than nothing.


That is a wonderful opinion. And I feel that some of the things NPC corp players are allowed to do also add hearless, selfish, mean, and unnecessary limitation to the playstyle of others. This is why the thread was created.

Your negative opinion is noted. Thank you for your time and input.
Dave Stark
#46 - 2013-02-04 01:27:04 UTC
Sol Weinstein wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Sol Weinstein wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Sol Weinstein wrote:
It was a personal attack. The reason that caused you to attack me isn't even important.

Yes, those systems DO get mined out. But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a change in the system. Belts can be added. Or [other things] can be done to change that fact.

This is how discussion works. You start with an idea and go from there.

Thank you.


the mining system doesn't need changing. why would we change a perfectly fine system to accommodate an even worse system being introduced?

not quite sure you understand how "improvements" work.

your suggestions add nothing to the game.


I disagree that my suggestions add nothing to the game. It would add a protection to PRCs from people who abuse the NPC Corporation Exploit.

I won't even suggest that you yourself are abusing the system. Because, that would be a personal attack on you. I will have faith that you have never once used your protection inside an NPC corp to place a 100k bounty on someone with no risk to yourself or your main characters. Just like you don't use the same character in the NPC corp to protect your main character from getting any backlash inside the game.

My tongue is firmly planted in my cheek as I say those last two sentences.

Your sig:

"100k for notifications of stupidity, i love this bounty system."

Thank you.


this *is* my main character. i don't use an NPC corp alt to post/do my dirty work. i use an NPC corp character as my main character because the simple fact is; player corps have nothing to offer me.

i fail to see how using an npc corp character to shield a player from backlash is any different to using an alt in a player corp that they never log in, just create a character on an account, put it in a random player corp and send it isk to create bounties. not letting npc corp player use the bounty feature doesn't stop people being able to be "immune to backlash" it just means they have to click 2 more buttons to place a bounty.

it would be quicker, easier, and less hassle to just remove NPC corps if you truly have an issue with them. because your list of "demands" really are ill thought out and terrible. there's no getting around that.


This post wasn't about multiple characters on the same account created to avoid the system. This post is about people (maybe not you specifically) using the 'protection' of an NPC corp to act like a player in a PRC. Your response is talking about something totally different. Feel free to make your own thread regarding multiple characters on the same account (or other accounts) created with the intent to abuse the system.

A second character (on the same account or other account) should be used to play in a different style than the others. Or it can be used to play the game the exact same way but with a different identity. A second account should not be used to abuse the systems of the game. But, once again, feel free to make your own thread discussing this.

Thank you.


no, my response is just the result of what will happen if your ideas are made reality. nothing will change.

the fact that you just ignored why your system was bad and told me to post elsewhere confirms this is a very elaborate troll thread.
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#47 - 2013-02-04 01:28:15 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Sol Weinstein wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Can I ask you a serious question...

Do you think CCP is going to enact changes that will detrimentally affect a large portion of their player base?

We discussed this in my thread of how the forums caused CCP to change the game when it comes to mining barges being buffed because of the threads complaing about ganking.

Can you imagine the threadnaughts that will ensue if your changes were enacted?


I'm not sure what is going to happen. This is why the post was made. I think changes need to be made so I created a post about it. It's the first step. One small post for PRCs; one giant leap for a better gameplay experience. Gotta start somewhere.

Thank you.


Well you have to keep in mind if people are in NPC corps and using that system a great deal that they must really enjoy the benefits of said system.

When you propose major changes to said system, you must realize that people are not going to like said changes and there will have some major resistance to such a suggestion.

If you had taken some time to consider "Will the majority of EvE player accept this change?" then you have to come to conlusion at least the people in the NPC corps would not accept this change, then you have to consider how much of the player base will reject your ideas.

And you can't get to that point simply by posting a forum post. You get some idea, but people don't come out of the woodwork until something really bothers them.


The popular vote wasn't my concern. I already know all the things you stated. But, that doesn't mean the opinion shouldn't be posted or discussed.

I realize some of the ideas aren't going to be liked. And I am willing to also realize that they might not be implemented. It's okay to post an adverse idea. This way we know what the players want.

Thank you.
Dave Stark
#48 - 2013-02-04 01:30:01 UTC
Sol Weinstein wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Sol Weinstein wrote:
I disagree that my suggestions add nothing to the game.

True. They add a lot of limitations to it. Heartless, selfish, mean and unnecessary limitations, which is far worse than nothing.


That is a wonderful opinion. And I feel that some of the things NPC corp players are allowed to do also add hearless, selfish, mean, and unnecessary limitation to the playstyle of others. This is why the thread was created.

Your negative opinion is noted. Thank you for your time and input.




oh my sides, this is too funny.
especially since npc corp players already have less tools at their disposal.
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#49 - 2013-02-04 01:32:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Sol Weinstein
Dave Stark wrote:
stuff.


I would ask that you keep your personally attacking opinions about me or my post to yourself. They are not allowed on these forums, nor are they welcome by me. This is not a troll thread ("troll" in the way you are using it).

I didn't ignore why my system was bad. That is the entire point of the thread. To see who thinks it is bad, who thinks it is good, and also who thinks it had some good ideas and others bad. Your continued insistence of telling me you disagree with them is not only pointless, but also starting to border on your own word: "trolling".

Your negative response to my opinion has been noted and I thank you for it. If you have nothing else to say about my post, please do yourself a favor and move on.

Thank you.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#50 - 2013-02-04 01:32:55 UTC
Sol Weinstein wrote:
NPC Corporation Exploit.


Unless you are privy to information that the rest of us are not, I suggest you stop with the FUD.

An exploit is what CCP says an exploit is. Using an exploit is a bannable offense. I haven't seen anything lately about being banned for belonging to an NPC corp, so as far as I can tell, there is no exploit.


Mr Epeen Cool
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#51 - 2013-02-04 01:34:18 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Sol Weinstein wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Sol Weinstein wrote:
I disagree that my suggestions add nothing to the game.

True. They add a lot of limitations to it. Heartless, selfish, mean and unnecessary limitations, which is far worse than nothing.


That is a wonderful opinion. And I feel that some of the things NPC corp players are allowed to do also add hearless, selfish, mean, and unnecessary limitation to the playstyle of others. This is why the thread was created.

Your negative opinion is noted. Thank you for your time and input.





especially since npc corp players already have less tools at their disposal.


Please feel free to list the missing tools at their disposal.

(Also, they SHOULD have less tools at their disposal. At least in my opinion. Opinion... the point of this thread.)

Thank you.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2013-02-04 01:34:51 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:

Well you have to keep in mind if people are in NPC corps and using that system a great deal that they must really enjoy the benefits of said system.
Botters really enjoy the benefits of botting. What's your point?
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#53 - 2013-02-04 01:36:03 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Sol Weinstein wrote:
NPC Corporation Exploit.


Unless you are privy to information that the rest of us are not, I suggest you stop with the FUD.

An exploit is what CCP says an exploit is. Using an exploit is a bannable offense. I haven't seen anything lately about being banned for belonging to an NPC corp, so as far as I can tell, there is no exploit.


Mr Epeen Cool


I wasn't aware that I had to start every post or sentence with "in my opinion". But I can change it for you if you need the clarification.

In my opinion, it is an abuse of the system. Otherwise known as: an exploit.

But again, my opinion. I see you disagree with me and that is okay.

Thank you.
Whitehound
#54 - 2013-02-04 01:39:25 UTC
Sol Weinstein wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Sol Weinstein wrote:
I disagree that my suggestions add nothing to the game.

True. They add a lot of limitations to it. Heartless, selfish, mean and unnecessary limitations, which is far worse than nothing.


That is a wonderful opinion. And I feel that some of the things NPC corp players are allowed to do also add hearless, selfish, mean, and unnecessary limitation to the playstyle of others. This is why the thread was created.

Your negative opinion is noted. Thank you for your time and input.



And as they say, two wrongs don't make a right.

I suppose you'll put this down as yet another negative opinion.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#55 - 2013-02-04 01:42:20 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Sol Weinstein wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Sol Weinstein wrote:
I disagree that my suggestions add nothing to the game.

True. They add a lot of limitations to it. Heartless, selfish, mean and unnecessary limitations, which is far worse than nothing.


That is a wonderful opinion. And I feel that some of the things NPC corp players are allowed to do also add hearless, selfish, mean, and unnecessary limitation to the playstyle of others. This is why the thread was created.

Your negative opinion is noted. Thank you for your time and input.



And as they say, two wrongs don't make a right.

I suppose you'll put this down as yet another negative opinion.


Perhaps.

Mainly because I don't believe my, or any opinion, is "wrong".

So, anything else on what my post was about? Do you disagree with everything? Do you feel that the system is working 100% fine and you can see NO OPPORTUNITY to add positive change to the current system?

Thank you.
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-02-04 01:45:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Aren Madigan
All I'm getting out of this is you don't like how other players play and are stamping your feet to get it change, despite the fact that it'd make things so restrictive to new players that it would destroy CCP's current stated goal of attracting new blood... so how is this a good idea?

And yes, I read the whole post, it still comes off as this way. In the end you're making things ridiculous for new players for the sake of stopping oldbies from taking advantage. Come up with an alternative that won't screw legitimate players over.
Whitehound
#57 - 2013-02-04 01:51:02 UTC
Sol Weinstein wrote:
So, anything else on what my post was about? Do you disagree with everything? Do you feel that the system is working 100% fine and you can see NO OPPORTUNITY to add positive change to the current system?

Thank you.

Quite honestly, and not meant as an offence, does your list come across as fascist. There are plenty of benefits for not being in an NPC corporation and anyone who does not respond to the positive reinforcement will likely not respond positively to your belt whipping, but quit.

If EVE drives you into believing such radical limitations are necessary then you might want to take a break from the game for a while. Again, no offence intended, but with your best interest in mind.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#58 - 2013-02-04 01:52:07 UTC
Aren Madigan wrote:
All I'm getting out of this is you don't like how other players play and are stamping your feet to get it change, despite the fact that it'd make things so restrictive to new players that it would destroy CCP's current stated goal of attracting new blood... so how is this a good idea?


Whether this is a "good idea" is the entire point of posting it. And, I made 8 points in the thread, not just one. Sure, some of the ideas are a little far fetched. Such as the system movement restriction and the module restriction. Please feel free to point out how YOU think they are not good.

As far as restricting new players... There are plenty of things restricting new players. Skills being one of them. A new player cannot use a battleship. Or a freighter. I don't see these things keeping the playerbase down. In fact, it is an incentive for them to be more active in the game.

Perhaps there needs to be different types of NPC corporations out there. Right now we have two types, true NPC and the FW variants. The FW weren't always in the game and CCP found a way to make it work. Who are you or I to say that there shouldn't be a third type of NPC corp? That is the point of this post.

Sure, my OP might not be the best. But, you have to start somewhere.

I'll ask the same thing I did another poster:

Do you think ALL my ideas are bad? Can you not think of ANYTHING that might improve the current system in the game?

Thank you.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2013-02-04 01:55:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Aren Madigan wrote:
All I'm getting out of this is you don't like how other players play and are stamping your feet to get it change, despite the fact that it'd make things so restrictive to new players that it would destroy CCP's current stated goal of attracting new blood... so how is this a good idea?

And yes, I read the whole post, it still comes off as this way. In the end you're making things ridiculous for new players for the sake of stopping oldbies from taking advantage. Come up with an alternative that won't screw legitimate players over.

NPC corps don't really benefit new players at all. Newbies have access to the least EHP (making suiciding them trivial) and enabling the "oldbies" to put their cumulative wealth into increasing their ISK farming yield, slowly devaluing the purchasing power of ISK/commodities per unit, gradually decreasing the effective wealth a newbie can generate. Newbies are also the least familiar with the PVP evasion techniques that oldbies use regularly. They benefit the 5-year vet in an NPC corp mining out the rookie system belts because of the GM's anti-rookie harassing policy, not the rookies who the belts were intended for.

My alternative is simply remove the protections afforded to NPC corps to all equally. Make individuals deccable as if they were one-man corps. What could be more fair then total equality? Nobody is being punished, nobody singled out or afforded special treatment, everyone on an even footing.
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#60 - 2013-02-04 01:56:18 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Sol Weinstein wrote:
So, anything else on what my post was about? Do you disagree with everything? Do you feel that the system is working 100% fine and you can see NO OPPORTUNITY to add positive change to the current system?

Thank you.

Quite honestly, and not meant as an offence, does your list come across as fascist. There are plenty of benefits for not being in an NPC corporation and anyone who does not respond to the positive reinforcement will likely not respond positively to your belt whipping, but quit.

If EVE drives you into believing such radical limitations are necessary then you might want to take a break from the game for a while. Again, no offence intended, but with your best interest in mind.


Wow. A personal attack on my beliefs that exist outside of the game. Very nice to see. Also, "offense". Yeah I know. Grammar Police. But hey, why not? You already don't care to discuss the post and just want to make accusations based on a poorly formed opinion about me in real life.

No. EVE doesn't drive me to believe such "radical limitations" are necessary. I don't think they are radical. You do, and that is okay. Please keep your personal opinions of how I choose to live my personal life to yourself. This thread is not about your opinion of how I live my life outside of EVE. You are most likely not qualified to give life advice, so I will ask you to refrain from these types of posts in the future. Or, I'll try your tactic: If my post drives you to make personal attacks on my character then perhaps you should log out of the forums. No offenSe intended, but with your best interest in mind.

Thank you.