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Final Blow?
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Paul Panala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-02-03 18:51:52 UTC
This is not a big deal to me, just wondering what others think. What is the point of final blow on a kill report? It seems to be random, favoring those with a faster rate of fire or more ungrouped modules. What useful information does it provide? Maybe it should be replaced with something more meaningful, like First Warp Disruption (which would include all forms of preventing warp). Then send the kill report to all involved parties.

In the past it didn't really matter, but now that bounties are paid to the final blow it really begs the question. Bounties should be paid to top damage or split between all involved parties (maybe not evenly).
Spurty
#2 - 2013-02-03 18:57:10 UTC
Top damage dealer getting the payout makes sense to me.

Clearly will not be what the game does then.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2013-02-03 19:15:59 UTC
Fair point on the bounties to be honest.

But the info comes in handy when figuring out who didn't stop shooting when told to.
Whitehound
#4 - 2013-02-03 19:16:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
It is ignorant by CCP.

Before bounties did it not matter and was only good for bragging. Everyone else is listed on the kill mails, including the amount of damage, and so everyone can see their contribution in a kill. After all, they did implement it so to add up the damage and to show it for each ship including the module that was used (weapon or e-war).

Now it is used for bounties, which are meant to reward the players' effort, and it is just dumb.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-02-03 19:20:38 UTC
Paul Panala wrote:
What is the point of final blow on a kill report?


Worthless e-peen for worthless internet nerd accomplishment.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
#6 - 2013-02-03 19:24:58 UTC
Neither faster rate of fire nor ungrouped modules helps with sniping killmails. It's just DPS and probability unless someone is actively trying to 'time' the killing blow.

If one were really keen to get a km, I would do just the opposite in fact, maximize alpha, group weapons and then fire a volley when the victim is in low structure.

But yes, I take more pride in being top damage on a km than I do in getting the killing blow and bounties should (at least in theory) be awarded to top damage dealer.
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
#7 - 2013-02-03 19:26:18 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Paul Panala wrote:
What is the point of final blow on a kill report?


Worthless e-peen for worthless internet nerd accomplishment.

As could be said for anything in this game, unless you are able to successfully RMT.
Paul Panala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-02-03 20:51:24 UTC
AkJon Ferguson wrote:
Neither faster rate of fire nor ungrouped modules helps with sniping killmails. It's just DPS and probability unless someone is actively trying to 'time' the killing blow.

If one were really keen to get a km, I would do just the opposite in fact, maximize alpha, group weapons and then fire a volley when the victim is in low structure.

But yes, I take more pride in being top damage on a km than I do in getting the killing blow and bounties should (at least in theory) be awarded to top damage dealer.


Okay, yeah, if you don't mind hurting your DPS just to try to get the kill mail. My point about faster rate of fire and more mods is that assuming you don't turn mods on and off you are more likely to get the kill mail if you have 7 mods that cycle at 2 seconds all at different times (that comes out to be a shot about ever 0.3 secs) than a big group that cycles at 6 seconds.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#9 - 2013-02-03 21:23:22 UTC
Paul Panala wrote:
In the past it didn't really matter, but now that bounties are paid to the final blow it really begs the question. Bounties should be paid to top damage or split between all involved parties (maybe not evenly).


That's funny, I get bounty payouts when I don't get final blow or top damage.

Got 71,429.57 ISK for this, and
7,142.86 ISK for this.

Bounties get split evenly among all participants in the kill.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#10 - 2013-02-03 21:26:32 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Paul Panala wrote:
What is the point of final blow on a kill report?


Worthless e-peen for worthless internet nerd accomplishment.

Kind of like an internet nerd rank on your name?
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
#11 - 2013-02-03 21:26:33 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Paul Panala wrote:
In the past it didn't really matter, but now that bounties are paid to the final blow it really begs the question. Bounties should be paid to top damage or split between all involved parties (maybe not evenly).


That's funny, I get bounty payouts when I don't get final blow or top damage.

Got 71,429.57 ISK for this, and
7,142.86 ISK for this.

Bounties get split evenly among all participants in the kill.


I'm not sure of this, but my understanding is that the bounty is split between all fleetmembers (might just be on-grid fleetmembers, not sure) of the person who got the killing blow.

I'm fairly sure it doesn't go to everyone on the mail (if more than one fleet is on the mail.)
stoicfaux
#12 - 2013-02-03 21:30:45 UTC
The Final Blow is an end-game meta-game achievement, with the penultimate goal of being The One(tm) who lands the killing blow on a Titan with a Civilian Gatling Railgun/Laser/Autocannon.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
#13 - 2013-02-03 21:31:23 UTC
Paul Panala wrote:
AkJon Ferguson wrote:
Neither faster rate of fire nor ungrouped modules helps with sniping killmails. It's just DPS and probability unless someone is actively trying to 'time' the killing blow.

If one were really keen to get a km, I would do just the opposite in fact, maximize alpha, group weapons and then fire a volley when the victim is in low structure.

But yes, I take more pride in being top damage on a km than I do in getting the killing blow and bounties should (at least in theory) be awarded to top damage dealer.


Okay, yeah, if you don't mind hurting your DPS just to try to get the kill mail. My point about faster rate of fire and more mods is that assuming you don't turn mods on and off you are more likely to get the kill mail if you have 7 mods that cycle at 2 seconds all at different times (that comes out to be a shot about ever 0.3 secs) than a big group that cycles at 6 seconds.


Your assumption would only be true if the km is randomly assigned among all the people who did any damage in the 'tick' in which something blows up. I don't believe it works that way, though I could be wrong.
Degren
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-02-03 21:34:39 UTC
Came expecting blowjob.

Didn't leave disappointed.

Hello, hello again.
Whitehound
#15 - 2013-02-03 21:48:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Paul Panala wrote:
Okay, yeah, if you don't mind hurting your DPS just to try to get the kill mail. My point about faster rate of fire and more mods is that assuming you don't turn mods on and off you are more likely to get the kill mail if you have 7 mods that cycle at 2 seconds all at different times (that comes out to be a shot about ever 0.3 secs) than a big group that cycles at 6 seconds.

It does not really matter if you do 5 times 200 damage or once 1000 damage. You may think that you are hitting the target more often and thereby increase your chance on getting the final blow, but so does the one with the high alpha, who concentrates all his power into a single volley and who can kill a ship with a single shot or just take the last chunk of a target's hull in one for which you would need to do 1-4 more shots.

The problem I see is that everyone feels to deserve a piece of the bounty, but only one gets it and then the players start making up strategies on how to get a bounty before others do and then might begin to compromise their play. At the same time do fleet members get an equal share, which makes no sense. Why the difference between fleet members and solo entities?!

I could care less over the final blow when it comes to players doing the kill, but in cases where an NPC had the final blow do I not see why it should be given to the first next player (and who could have died in the fight)!

Clearly, CCP does not care about who gets a part of the bounty and why. They only care that it gets paid to someone, anyone, and then their brains stopped working. Job done and off into the bar...

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#16 - 2013-02-04 01:40:56 UTC
Ironically, I read this and thought immediately of Dust. They do the same thing with the points going to the person with the kill shot, and everyone else getting an assist. I quite often get majority damage only to lose the kill to someone who shows up an pops of a round or two.

When I say quite often, I mean 5-1 on my actual kills. Easy to empty a clip and then duck for cover or relaod and lose the kill. Not a big issue, but it doesn't do anything for the KDR, and thinking of that, I believe EVE is the same.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't your KDR in EVE also tied to the final blow?

Not a huge issue either way, but between that and random damage modifiers it makes you wonder really, how important is that kill ratio?

Happily, I have managed to up my Kill ratio in Dust, from .45 to .65 over the last couple weeks. Can't say I've managed to do the same in EVE unfortunately. Sad

Honestly though, if I really was concerned with it, I'd stop soloing and join a Corp that liked blowing things up. Blink
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Slymah
DorpCorp
#17 - 2013-02-04 01:45:57 UTC
It's complicated.
Eija-Riitta Veitonen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-02-04 01:56:00 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
The Final Blow is an end-game meta-game achievement, with the penultimate goal of being The One(tm) who lands the killing blow on a Titan with a Civilian Gatling Railgun/Laser/Autocannon.


Good one, here's one internet to you, sir.

And bounty payout is split among all involved in the killmail, which i find fair. Because there are classes of ships and roles that don't get the luxury of being the "top dog" in terms of damage, such as tacklers, EW ships, logistics ships (those usually don't show up on killmails at all unless they whore the killmail), and it's really hard to tell which ones of them contributed more to the kill than others.

@op: final blows in killmails exist since the inception of the killmails themselves. At first killmail (do you actually ever wonder why it's named killmail in the first place? - it's because the first versions of them actually were sent out via eve-mail function by CONCORD to the person who got the final blow and the victim) contained only information on victim, destroyed ship, involved parties (names, corps, ships, weapons) and destroyed items. All the rest we currently have (such as damage received/dealt, dropped modules, all the fancy UI and stuff) was added much later on. And why the final blow exist in the first place? Well, my guess is, it's much more efficient to send the mail to only two parties (victim and final blow) than it would be to send it to all involved parties, considering the list can be pretty long and/or get truncated.
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#19 - 2013-02-04 02:00:05 UTC
Degren wrote:
Came expecting blowjob.

Didn't leave disappointed.


Yeah, it is becoming a running gag.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
GreenSeed
#20 - 2013-02-04 02:11:50 UTC
mention to first point on the kill mail would certainly make ceptor/recon pilots more happy.