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Has forum discussion ever resulted in a major change in EvE's gameplay?
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Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#61 - 2013-02-03 17:23:52 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I'm sitting here typing like mad on occasion and it dawned on me. Only a fraction of the game population uses the forums for various personal reasons and is only logical that CCP not use the forums to make drastic game changes.

And today there was a post in which I had pretty good reasons to reply to but a part of me deep down inside thought "It's not really going to make a difference. CCP isn't going to read my opponents or my post and say: WE NEED TO DO THAT ASAP!"

Can anyone point to any change in EvE that was directly caused by whining, debate, or logical thesis put forward by a forum poster?

Or are we will just verbaly abusing each other because we have a false hope that by doing so CCP will listen to us and magically come to the conclusion that we are right and everyone else is wrong and that they will make changes that will drastically affect large portions of the player base because we as a individual feel that it is right.

Where do we get off on such a world view?

I legitimately want examples so I feel that my efforts are not in vain.

Discuss.


Of course it has. Almost every bit of the new Bounty system was debated over in the Assembly Hall section for many many months almost exclusively by players. The way it is implemented now, is very very close to the way people agreed on in that thread.

There are plenty of examples throughout the forums. Most of the changes that actually occur though are proposed either in the Assembly Hall or the Features and Ideas section.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2013-02-03 17:25:03 UTC
Vexen Lyre wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Vexen Lyre wrote:

no remap = 57 days. getting a barge and mining for several hours a day pays for it.


Do the math, finish proving your point.


that needs more than 2 seconds in evemon i'm kind of losing interest in internet argument.

rich noob buys PLEX. I win now?


Do the math or go away npc alt.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Rellik B00n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2013-02-03 17:25:52 UTC
many times over the years is the answer OP.

im not going to waste my time searching for specifics you can do that yourself.
[Of a request for change ask: Who Benefits?](https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=199765)
Vexen Lyre
Doomheim
#64 - 2013-02-03 17:39:57 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Do the math or go away npc alt.


there's no need to call me a name.

the noob would have to make A Lot Of Money

Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#65 - 2013-02-03 18:02:23 UTC
burn jita, burn

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#66 - 2013-02-03 18:22:36 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Do you see why CCP never intended "X" is a bad argument?
Actually, no.

None of your examples are true. Supers have gone through huge nerfs and buffs. Null isn't garbage, and due for an update. Lowsec got LVL5 agents and then FW, which is expanded upon a lot and they don't care about AFK mining, it's a supply/demand market.

Just because CCP is slow to react, or doesn't get it right the first time, doesn't mean they don't do it when they feel the need to.

Players create content, but within CCPs framework. Why? Because those FFA games are horrible game experiences. Hence why they all die in a fire.
Dave stark
#67 - 2013-02-03 18:36:18 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Vexen Lyre wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Vexen Lyre wrote:

no remap = 57 days. getting a barge and mining for several hours a day pays for it.


Do the math, finish proving your point.


that needs more than 2 seconds in evemon i'm kind of losing interest in internet argument.

rich noob buys PLEX. I win now?


Do the math or go away npc alt.


pulls in 2.5 cans per hour, assuming you spend a few more mins traning for t1 mlus
call it 5.5m per can
13.75m per hour.

mackinaw is 170m isk.

that's 12 hours of mining. let's call it 15 to account for travel time, and sales tax, and all the other things.
15 hours over 60 days is only 15 mins mining per day. that's not even 1 jetcan per day.

sorry, i was bored.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#68 - 2013-02-03 18:54:10 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Pohbis wrote:

By all means, go ahead and gank the barges fitting Ore Strip Miners. Do you have any kind of argument as to why mining ships should be the only T2 fitted ships in hi-sec that are profitable to gank?



Just about every single subcap IS profitable to gank if they fit no tank and fit T2 mods. Pre buff the exhumers had a tank in the same range as heavy assault ships.

Quote:
You can be certain that if people suddenly started ganking T2 fitted pirate and faction mission BS, that CCP would do the same.


If they fit zero tank in large enough numbers then we would.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#69 - 2013-02-03 19:17:58 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
mining barge buffs


you can thank me for that!

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#70 - 2013-02-03 19:21:43 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
The Minmatar boost a few years back was a result of forum warrioring. I think you underestimate how information spreads through Eve.

-Liang


lists of forum whoring that made changes

1. minmatar boost

2. tiercide

3. gal boost

4. many many many caldari nerfs

5. mining barge boost

6. nano nerf

7. what ever the next thing i decide to ***** about that needs fixing... (i bet force projection is next on the list)

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#71 - 2013-02-03 21:02:51 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
Shooting monuments and loss of subs gets results. Forums posts - not so much.

Look at the Uni Inv issue. I screamed all over the forums that it was borked on SiSI and they published anyway. Later, they used all the complaints on the forums to fix things most complained about - but initially, the forums were ignored.

I think a certain chunk is that CCP needs to get the changes through as they desire then they will alter it.
Sort of that you hate it because you are you but do the silent majority even care?
Plus seeing if its the whole ohnoz change must preserve status quo bit.
Not that they dont listen and use SiSI tests (is it sisi or buckingham now?) its just they tend to be far along when they make changes and announce them.
Plus a lot of the back end stuff is once done its done no going back leveland is quite necessary as the code is illsuited for its current usage and level.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2013-02-03 21:05:32 UTC
Pohbis wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Do you see why CCP never intended "X" is a bad argument?
Actually, no.

None of your examples are true. Supers have gone through huge nerfs and buffs. Null isn't garbage, and due for an update. Lowsec got LVL5 agents and then FW, which is expanded upon a lot and they don't care about AFK mining, it's a supply/demand market.

Just because CCP is slow to react, or doesn't get it right the first time, doesn't mean they don't do it when they feel the need to.

Players create content, but within CCPs framework. Why? Because those FFA games are horrible game experiences. Hence why they all die in a fire.


This proves you have no idea what you are talking about.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-02-03 21:18:36 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Vexen Lyre wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Vexen Lyre wrote:

no remap = 57 days. getting a barge and mining for several hours a day pays for it.


Do the math, finish proving your point.


that needs more than 2 seconds in evemon i'm kind of losing interest in internet argument.

rich noob buys PLEX. I win now?


Do the math or go away npc alt.


pulls in 2.5 cans per hour, assuming you spend a few more mins traning for t1 mlus
call it 5.5m per can
13.75m per hour.

mackinaw is 170m isk.

that's 12 hours of mining. let's call it 15 to account for travel time, and sales tax, and all the other things.
15 hours over 60 days is only 15 mins mining per day. that's not even 1 jetcan per day.

sorry, i was bored.


I think the maths get harder when you also have to finance the ship to mine those 2.5 cans per hours. The key is the new Venture possibly mining enough to buy a retriever when you get to mining barge since hauling for a covetor would most likely cost more time. It all depends on how many hours you can put in the belts...
Dave stark
#74 - 2013-02-03 22:49:50 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:


I think the maths get harder when you also have to finance the ship to mine those 2.5 cans per hours. The key is the new Venture possibly mining enough to buy a retriever when you get to mining barge since hauling for a covetor would most likely cost more time. It all depends on how many hours you can put in the belts...


a retriever is hardly expensive...
and of course you'll be mining in a venture when you start, it takes about 7 days to get in to the retriever, and if you can't earn ~40m for hull and fittings then this game is clearly too complex for you.

40m is what, 8 jetcans?
which is what, 40 full cargos in a venture?
like 6 full ventures per day, which is just over 1 jetcan per day.
if you can't manage just over 1 jetcan per day then i don't know what to tell you...
Djana Libra
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#75 - 2013-02-03 22:59:43 UTC
something with 36 months comes to mind, a closed door and all that
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#76 - 2013-02-03 23:18:19 UTC
Practically all broken (mildly through horribly) things are in Eve because of the forums.

CCP voices intention to implement a change -> outrage either for/against -> CCP overbuffs, waters down to meaningless or discards entirely.

MoM, ECM, Buffer tanks, TE's, RR, Pirate ships (lol-Angels), Incursions, sanctums, etc. etc.

One can literally take any change (not tweaks) made and find the threadnaught that corrupted it .. It is why most characters, after they reach a certain age, start [s]ab[/]using the forums directly, through alts or a spokes-person Smile
Not Politically Correct
Doomheim
#77 - 2013-02-03 23:41:46 UTC
I've seen a number of threadnaughts. I can't remember seeing any of the suggested changes made. (Maybe they just weren't in the part of the game I play?)

In general, I would have to say that CCP is indifferent. All this flaming seems to be another part of the entertainment to them.
Cephalus
Epic Logistic
#78 - 2013-02-04 02:21:14 UTC
The first thing that pops into my mind is the Alliances and sov systems.
this was before we had the csm and it was a direct result of people screaming for it on the forums,
(careful what you wish for?)
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2013-02-04 02:22:59 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
I would have to disagree that discussions limited to the forum ever got anything changed in Eve. To my knowledge all changes occurred in this order:

1) Whine threads ad nauseam. To which CCP's reply was typically, "We value you as a loyal customer. Here's a rubik's cube, now go F*$( yourself.

2) Subs start to drop.

3) CCP makes changes.

The changes to the barges cited as a change due to discussion can be directly correlated to YEARS of whine threads discussing how no tank could be successfully added to them without ganking their ability to mine making some non-mining ships competitive w/ better tanks. Coupled with this were years to whine threads about being ganked so easily. And finally, at the height of the gankage dedicated miners just dropping subs. I know many who left and were never seen again because CCP continued to ignore the rampant abuse of miners on multiple fronts:bots, ganking, etc.



Grath and me already mentioned it above - the implementation of Abathur's changes to supercapitals over Nozh's plan (never not target paint motherships) was - as far as anyone can tell - only due to massive forum outrage.

As the whole controversy happened before any changes were deployed to TQ it seems unlikely that cancelled subscriptions played a role in CCP's decision.


Given that none of us are omnipotent nor do we have unlimited time and attention span, it would probably be worth-while to accept that somethings they do pay attention to on the forum and go forward from there and then for other things, they just couldn't give a flying leap what the players say until they say "enough" and start de-subbing.

Don't ban me, bro!
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#80 - 2013-02-04 04:30:07 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
This proves you have no idea what you are talking about.
How can one argue against such a brilliant counterpoint.

I tip my hat to you good Sir. Don't ever let facts get in the way of your forum warrior-ing.