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Hit them where it hurts
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Vexen Lyre
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-02-03 13:43:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Vexen Lyre
doublepost.

Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#22 - 2013-02-03 13:44:07 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
While the US may consider corporations people, they lack anatomical features that would result in a mound of soft flesh laced heavily with nerves from which I may go and apply sufficient pressure to cause hematoma.
Therefore I suggest that all such grouping of people should be made to have critical must protect infrastructure that they must actively defend.
The loss of said infrastructure should result in the immediate disbandment of the corporation and forfeiture of any all assets in but not limited to corporation hangars within stations, POSes, market orders on their behalf, S&I jobs and contributory sovereignty.
This will at once enable the so called golden BB effect as done by smaller corporations, but it will also force the wars of aggression so necessary to the proper and right functioning of the nullsec ecosystem.
As such I move that the health for sov structures should be reduced to 10% of current values and be made to require constant maintenance starting at an approximate ISK value of 50 million per month and scaling on an exponential curve based on the activities of its members as defined by their Crest.

Sovereignty is pretty expensive to hold now; https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sovereignty_guide And as for EHP they go down easy enough considering the DPS that can be applied. Check out dotlan, they are changing hands every day.

I do think that sovereignty out in null is too powerful as far as protecting your resource extraction. It would be great if there was a way to steal moon goo or to hanger up out there so that reds could rat and plex in enemy space.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#23 - 2013-02-03 13:44:22 UTC
Die Unknown wrote:
Pohbis wrote:
You know, in a war, the military likes to target enemy infrastructure. Like airfields, bridges, roads, ports and bridges.

It's much easier and more effective to target the static locations, like bridges, than trying to catch the machines doing the transporting. Also less prone to subterfuge.

I watched a movie once, called "A bridge too far". Now I don't want to jump to any conclusions; but I think you might find it somewhat informative in regards to your issue.


We already have structure grinding and that will never go away entirely. What we need is a more options. There is also an underlying point: should anyone be immune to pvp in Eve?

We don't have a PvP immunity now.
There's just a cost factor that discourages unsanctioned PvP in certain areas.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#24 - 2013-02-03 13:54:31 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:

I can see more harm than good coming from this. That's all before you get into pissing off the playerbase and reducing the population of EvE.

.


Eve players are the most pissed off player base in the history of the gaming industry! I don't think pissing them off anymore will hurt subs. Hell, I don't even think it possible =-)

Re POS'es they are one of the points that could be balanced, as in off limits to a system wide dec.

It would be disruptive, but "harmful"? Idk about that, there would be some lost production and a few tears, but so what, its not like the rocks wont spawn again tomorrow. And think of the challenge! Outsmarting gankers and griefers and sharks, moving away form their stupid wardec and causing them a loss just for buying it. A new thing that players have to figure out, both sides, the bears and the sharks.
Die Unknown
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2013-02-03 13:55:34 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:
Die Unknown wrote:
Pohbis wrote:
You know, in a war, the military likes to target enemy infrastructure. Like airfields, bridges, roads, ports and bridges.

It's much easier and more effective to target the static locations, like bridges, than trying to catch the machines doing the transporting. Also less prone to subterfuge.

I watched a movie once, called "A bridge too far". Now I don't want to jump to any conclusions; but I think you might find it somewhat informative in regards to your issue.


We already have structure grinding and that will never go away entirely. What we need is a more options. There is also an underlying point: should anyone be immune to pvp in Eve?

We don't have a PvP immunity now.
There's just a cost factor that discourages unsanctioned PvP in certain areas.


I've been waiting for someone to say this. Suicide ganks are expensive and are limited by sec status. During a prolonged war effort, this mechanic should not be the only option on the table to disrupt enemy supply lines. Also, unless you are autopiloting, it's quite easy to avoid being suicided.
Vexen Lyre
Doomheim
#26 - 2013-02-03 14:24:43 UTC
I'd like to hear an explanation for why an act of premeditated murder constitutes a war or why a galactic citizenry would put up with a corrupt police state that doesn't protect them.

Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#27 - 2013-02-03 14:37:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Pohbis
Die Unknown wrote:
Pohbis wrote:
You know, in a war, the military likes to target enemy infrastructure. Like airfields, bridges, roads, ports and bridges.

It's much easier and more effective to target the static locations, like bridges, than trying to catch the machines doing the transporting. Also less prone to subterfuge.

I watched a movie once, called "A bridge too far". Now I don't want to jump to any conclusions; but I think you might find it somewhat informative in regards to your issue.


We already have structure grinding and that will never go away entirely. What we need is a more options. There is also an underlying point: should anyone be immune to pvp in Eve?
No, we don't need more options.

You might not like your options, but I am sure the enemy JF pilot isn't exactly thrilled about his job either.

Logistics isn't about having fun. Neither should interdiction be.

However, you do have an option. Try shooting the stuff that comes through the bridge, not the bridge itself.

Or, gank the NPC jump freighters. Are you telling us disrupting enemy logistics should be free?
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-02-03 14:41:23 UTC
You are looking past the fact that if EVE was real life, real people would really be able to make arrangements with corporations that are 100% protected by Concord's laws of civilization (aka NPC corporations)



So for all of EVE's lack luster and over simplified features, this feature is actually on par with realism. Thus, your post fails.

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Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-02-03 15:27:42 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
translation "i want to gank freighter pilots, in high sec, without penalty"



Thats pretty much exactly how I read that post.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#30 - 2013-02-03 15:28:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Vexen Lyre wrote:
I'd like to hear an explanation for why an act of premeditated murder constitutes a war or why a galactic citizenry would put up with a corrupt police state that doesn't protect them.


Because the cost for putting up with corruption is far less than the cost of removing it. Same as RL.

As for murder, well, in the case of pod pilots there is no such thing. And I guess non-pod pilots just don't matter enough for anyone to care.
Vexen Lyre
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-02-03 15:52:50 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Vexen Lyre wrote:
I'd like to hear an explanation for why an act of premeditated murder constitutes a war or why a galactic citizenry would put up with a corrupt police state that doesn't protect them.


Because the cost for putting up with corruption is far less than the cost of removing it. Same as RL.

As for murder, well, in the case of pod pilots there is no such thing. And I guess non-pod pilots just don't matter enough for anyone to care.


The point I'm making is that individuals aren't wartargets, but rather the corporation or alliance they're a member of is and if a corpration attacks an individual then that's really a hit. maybe there should be a mechanic for that but 50M for an entire alliance to have free kill rights on a character for a week is quite a bargain.

besides, this is just another permutation of the wardeccing npc corps fixing the game delusion. all it will accomplish is causing everyone to dock up the moment they see a wartarget in system, just like people in null do when they see an unalligned pilot in local.

then the people agitating for this will shut up because no immediate in local leaves them at risk from stealth bombers.

Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#32 - 2013-02-03 15:58:56 UTC
Die Unknown wrote:
Xindi Kraid wrote:
I'm confused as to how being able to wardec people in an NPC corp equates to breaking nullsec corps.
Or do you happen to know the names of every alt they have and know how this cane be used without such a system being used solely to grief newbies.


Paying 25-50m a week to grief one newbie would be incredibly stupid.

And yet people will do it for the lols.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#33 - 2013-02-03 16:58:58 UTC
The idea falls flat on it's face because it lacks any consideration for the reality of the situation. Though you may be able to effectively attack the logistics of a large alliance, smaller ones will be much easier to rout in this manner, and can less afford losing freighters in the same way a large alliance can.

It also overlooks the fact that shipping from Jita to null only happens because it is convenient - as soon as you remove that, then the same needs to be done in your base of operations. Who then is better able to achieve this, the small alliance with 2 or 3 easily camped stations, or a large sprawling alliance with many, many more?

[effectively] Immune logistics is one of the few game mechanic-quirks that keep small entities in nullsec at all.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Die Unknown
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2013-02-03 17:26:02 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
The idea falls flat on it's face because it lacks any consideration for the reality of the situation. Though you may be able to effectively attack the logistics of a large alliance, smaller ones will be much easier to rout in this manner, and can less afford losing freighters in the same way a large alliance can.

It also overlooks the fact that shipping from Jita to null only happens because it is convenient - as soon as you remove that, then the same needs to be done in your base of operations. Who then is better able to achieve this, the small alliance with 2 or 3 easily camped stations, or a large sprawling alliance with many, many more?

[effectively] Immune logistics is one of the few game mechanic-quirks that keep small entities in nullsec at all.


This is completely wrong because you don't appreciate the difference in scale. Large alliances rely on income from the moon goo far more because of the infrastructure already in place. The traffic isn't just one way. With a larger volume of traffic, there will be more opportunity for intercept, making large scale logistics far riskier.

The other issue is getting the intel on logistic pilots. There is an argument to be made that this sort of information is easier to hide if you are a small, tight-nit group.
Ghazu
#35 - 2013-02-03 18:43:15 UTC
hey op, you can gank freighters of all kinds in highsec, it's called suicide ganking, figure it out.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Ghazu
#36 - 2013-02-03 18:46:06 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
Die Unknown wrote:
Xindi Kraid wrote:
I'm confused as to how being able to wardec people in an NPC corp equates to breaking nullsec corps.
Or do you happen to know the names of every alt they have and know how this cane be used without such a system being used solely to grief newbies.


Paying 25-50m a week to grief one newbie would be incredibly stupid.

And yet people will do it for the lols.

It's not right, but dudes do want to gather in a pretend-bar emoting each other, for the lols.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-02-03 19:49:16 UTC
Die Unknown wrote:
We already have structure grinding and that will never go away entirely. What we need is a more options. There is also an underlying point: should anyone be immune to pvp in Eve?


Station traders are immune to wardec regardless of they are in NPC corps or not because they never leave the station.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Vexen Lyre
Doomheim
#38 - 2013-02-03 19:54:00 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Die Unknown wrote:
We already have structure grinding and that will never go away entirely. What we need is a more options. There is also an underlying point: should anyone be immune to pvp in Eve?


Station traders are immune to wardec regardless of they are in NPC corps or not because they never leave the station.


Yes, I'm thinking of taking teh 8m training to start my own corp and raise my credibility on these forums.

Docked in Jita - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-02-03 20:16:18 UTC
Posting in another thread about NPC corps and members.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-02-03 20:54:10 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
hey op, you can gank freighters of all kinds in highsec, it's called suicide ganking, figure it out.


That require effort wich is beyond many people's limit...