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Best solo gank ship?
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#1 - 2013-02-03 09:23:41 UTC
So I've been gone for a year and haven't kept up with EVE at all. What's the best solo pirate ship for lowsec these days? I have three requirements:

1) Able to go 1v1 with a wide range of targets. So, no T1 frigates, I want enough damage to get to the squishy pod at the center of every annoying BC/HAC/etc. Likewise, I want enough tracking to avoid getting humiliated by the first AF to show up in the same system. Obviously no one ship can do everything, but the difficulty in finding a fight already drove me out of the game once. I want a wide variety of target options and as little time as possible spent giving up on targets I could kill if only I brought my other ship.

2) Enough speed and agility to disengage from a bad situation, evade gatecamps, etc. I'm not yet convinced EVE is worth spending the extra money on re-subscribing my scout alt, so that whole no-MWD battleship plan just isn't going to happen. Anything that can't do 1500m/s before overloading better have a compelling reason for accepting such poor speed, and I can't even remember the last ship I flew that wasn't nano fit.

2) Not completely screwed when local starts to spike at the wrong time. So, nano fit with 20km engagement range, OMGWTF dps to gank and GTFO so fast that nobody else has time to get into the fight, or any other solution to the problem. But "get into web/scram range and wear them down over 15 minutes" isn't a viable plan.


On the good side the only sub-capitals I can't fly with full T2/all-V-skills are Gallente and Amarr battleships, so that's a nice wide range of choices to work with. And to give a starting point, the last ship I flew was the nanocane, and it did exactly what I wanted it to.
rektumfreser
Kamchatka did nothing wrong
#2 - 2013-02-03 09:51:30 UTC
100mn ab tengu, projectile scoping cookie loki, cynabal etc are the only ships i can think of that can fulfill these criterias, they will however severly discourage ppl from fighting you...

Id rather recommend you use a more specialised ship, a thorax for instance wont out-brawl a hurricane but u will get fights and correctly fitted u can molest ur target ships (RLA caracal for frigs/dessiee, arbitrator for ANY turret based ship etc)
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#3 - 2013-02-03 10:02:48 UTC
Sigh. The biggest disappointment so far has been the realization that CCP still hasn't taken a nerf bat to the Cynabal and made it a bit less overpowered. And it just highlights the problem with T1 cruisers: even post-boost I can't see how any of them can do anything but die against a Cynabal/Drake/etc, and I hate letting things go because I brought a ship that just dies against them. Have T1 cruisers/destroyers/etc really become common enough in lowsec now that taking a Thorax does anything but make a somewhat cheaper lossmail?

As for the AB Tengu, I can see where it would be effective, but the price tag on it is kind of worrying for a ship that has no defense against small ships. Or am I missing something and missiles can now do more than scratch paint on that AF that has you pointed for the incoming gang? And how do you actually use that AB speed without the awful agility sending you flying off out of point range and letting the target escape?
rektumfreser
Kamchatka did nothing wrong
#4 - 2013-02-03 11:07:26 UTC
Just fyi ships like thorax are capable of facemelting a drake (hm drake) the cynabal is still an expensive super-vaga.

In my experience frigs/dessie/cruisers are the most used ships in lowsec (placid area anyway)
Oh and if u fear cynabals, arbitrators can chase em away with ease
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#5 - 2013-02-03 13:07:25 UTC
Depnding on your wallet/alts/skills - the vigilant is a good solo cruiser. It moves as fast as any other cruiser and then some, but has a nice fall-off bonus combined with a web bonus. As long as you don't try to over-tank it, your DPS will cut through most BC's when void is loaded, and your web's/drones will make short work of any frigates.

I've seen people try to use 100mn AB's on it and i'm unimpressed by the results. This ship had plenty of defense against smaller tacklers, so gimping damage and tank for a BS AB makes no sense.

What you have in your post though is the fundamental issue with eve, even i have it:

You need a ship that can tackle targets, without gimping fitting to loose tank/dps to achieve that.
You want to be able to attack most ships you find.
You don't want to die to blobs.

Honestly though, links **** on solo PVP - until they nerf-hammer tackle ranges on linked ships, solo PVP will necesitate over sized AB cruisers or super-tanked BS's.

P.S.

Tackling is an issue, but the new Micro Jump Drive is an excellent way of tanking BS's into losec. You just need some neuts or enough light drones to chase of scrammers.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#6 - 2013-02-03 15:56:02 UTC
Deimos possibly? For a super thorax and/or a cheaper vigilante

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Doctorkaba
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-02-03 16:12:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Doctorkaba
eh i hate cynabals personally. I would suggest a thorax if you want to out brawl everything, or an SFI for a more mobile ship. (I would say that very little is going to out brawl a thorax that isnt one of those ships with ecm drones :P ).

Another ship i would suggest is a blackbird. If you have the jammers you wont die and can get good (ok maybe good for a frig) dps xD

the omen or navy omen or caracal (maybe) would work for the kiting aspect. Also have you looked at the new t3 BCs? the talos makes a wonderful solo ship and a shield talos has face melting dps+ good range+ good speed+ drones (a set of lights x2 i think).

Want some pvp help? Like to fly small and fast frigates? Then join the in game channel Tenori_Tigers!

ACE McFACE
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-02-04 04:45:34 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Sigh. The biggest disappointment so far has been the realization that CCP still hasn't taken a nerf bat to the Cynabal and made it a bit less overpowered. And it just highlights the problem with T1 cruisers: even post-boost I can't see how any of them can do anything but die against a Cynabal/Drake/etc, and I hate letting things go because I brought a ship that just dies against them. Have T1 cruisers/destroyers/etc really become common enough in lowsec now that taking a Thorax does anything but make a somewhat cheaper lossmail?

As for the AB Tengu, I can see where it would be effective, but the price tag on it is kind of worrying for a ship that has no defense against small ships. Or am I missing something and missiles can now do more than scratch paint on that AF that has you pointed for the incoming gang? And how do you actually use that AB speed without the awful agility sending you flying off out of point range and letting the target escape?

Sure a solo crusier will lose to a drake or Cynabal, but it would be a bit odd (or really skillful) if they didn't, in gangs though, a fleet of Omens with logi support is a very good thing

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Rajere
Vicious Inc
#9 - 2013-02-04 05:12:33 UTC
been meaning to try a MJD Vindicator for glorious low sec solo martyrdom but they're simply too expensive nowadays. gotta destroy basically over 2bil in ships just to break even in the isk destroyed/lost column.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#10 - 2013-02-04 06:39:20 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:

1) Able to go 1v1 with a wide range of targets

2) Enough speed and agility to disengage from a bad situation, evade gatecamps, etc.

2) nano fit with 20km engagement range, OMGWTF dps to gank and GTFO so fast that nobody else has time to get into the fight


I don't think that such a ship really exists for true solo. 100mn Tengus/Lokis are pretty great if you don't mind having a link alt following you around. The Cynabal is perhaps one of the best for true solo, but I'd be uncomfortable flying something that expensive with such a large number of cheap counters. It'd also be hard to get a fight unless someone knew they had a counter for you.

To me the secret to getting fights is to fly something that is attractive for people to engage and overextend. I don't even mind brawling if the situation warrants it - most people fail to realize just how much DPS can come from a single gank fit ship. I don't even mind losing it as long as I come out the "victor" by some reasonable metric. Let's take a look at Ye Olde Hurricane to see if we can't find something that does roughly what you want it to today.

Hurricane
6x 425mm AC II, 2x Unstable Neut
Y-T8 MWD, Disruptor II, 2x LSE II
3x Gyro II, 2x TE II, DC II
3x CDFE I
6x Warrior II

Stats:
- Cost: ~80M
- Tank: 50k EHP
- DPS: 450 DPS @ 20km, 385 DPS @ 25km
- Mobility: 12 sec align, 1311 m/s (1864 overheated)
- Frig Defense: 5 Warrior IIs, 2 Med Neuts

If you never made the switch to the 3 Gyro/2 TE cane, then you were probably flying something more like this:

Hurricane
6x 425mm AC II, 2x Unstable Neut
Y-T8 MWD, Disruptor II, 2x LSE II
3x Gyro II, 2x Nano II, DC II
3x CDFE I
6x Warrior II

Stats:
- Cost: ~80M
- Tank: 45k EHP
- DPS: 300 DPS @ 20km, 200 DPS @ 25km
- Mobility: 9 sec align, 1552 m/s (2205 overheated)
- Frig Defense: 5 Warrior IIs, 2 Med Neuts

I rather strongly suspect you were flying the second variant, so I'll focus on it. You say the most important ability the ship had was to apply DPS from range and get out should things turn south. That means that mobility and 300 DPS @ 20km are the primary vital stats to beat. Honestly, this is really easy.

Here's one option (you can fiddle with the DPS / Tank ratio via the lows):

HAM Caracal
5x HAM II
10mn MWD, Disruptor II, F-S9 LSE, 2x Inv II
3x BCU II, DC II
3x CDFE I

Stats:
- Cost: ~40M
- Tank: 30k EHP
- DPS: 450 DPS @ 20km, 450 DPS @ 25km
- Mobility: 7 sec align, 1881 m/s (2678 overheated)
- Frig Defense: 2 Warrior IIs

Most T1 cruisers can now be set up to deal more damage at 20-25km than the old nano cane was putting out. AND, they're much easier to get a fight in.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#11 - 2013-02-04 07:20:49 UTC
Doctorkaba wrote:
the talos makes a wonderful solo ship and a shield talos has face melting dps+ good range+ good speed+ drones (a set of lights x2 i think).


But no tank. I tried that right before I quit, it looked good on paper and the 30 second fight vs. a Harbinger was fun (ended badly, but almost killed him), but the cost to durability ratio seems pretty bad. I'd love to fly it with a Falcon alt, but solo isn't going to happen when I'm as rusty as I am now.

Liang Nuren wrote:
I rather strongly suspect you were flying the second variant, so I'll focus on it.


Third variant, actually. Your setup #1 but with polycarbon rigs and LG snakes for the decisive speed advantage. Alternately, that setup but with 220s and a gang mod (with my covops alt letting me get the bonus).

Quote:
HAM Caracal


Interesting idea, but two problems stand out:

1) Nice theoretical dps, but HAMs don't do full damage to other cruisers. It looks a lot less impressive when that dps drops to 200ish.

2) No frigate defense. The Hurricane was awesome because you could just burn away from a frigate (especially if they were AB fit and therefore slower than you), drop transversal to zero, and smash them with full dps. And even if they got inside AC tracking there's still the neuts and drones. The Caracal, on the other hand, has none of that. If an AF crashes the party all you can do is spam warp and hope your pod gets out.

Well, there's the third problem that your exact setup doesn't fit (need a CPU implant which I can't use), but that just means losing an extender rig for CPU, which is annoying but not fatal. In general though it's a tempting idea, and the Moa is actually looking kind of appealing.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#12 - 2013-02-04 07:22:27 UTC
The same general principle applies for lots of T1 cruisers. But still, the "theoretical" DPS dropping down to 200 is still about what we expect out of the Cane.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Savlena Torilles
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-02-04 14:19:20 UTC
I've been flying the Talos for a while and it's a really nice soloship. Immense DPS from kiting range and quite fast for a BC. Instapops dessies, ceptors and frigs. Sure if the manage to establish and orbit you'r most likely screwed but if that's the case you prolly did something wrong in the first place.

I see lots of ppl claiming the 100mn AB tengu is a viable choice for solo pvping, while that is true to a certain degree I still don't think ppl get the whole picture when it comes to solo work, atleast in 0.0. First of all it's very expensive, so unless you have a lot of ISK to spare you won't be ballsy enough to get good fights. You won't get many 1v1 engagements in a Tengu, the key is to fly something that ppl underestimates. I've been flying the Algos a couple of days and had some intense fights, it's doing really well against frigs, af's and ceptors and ppl seem to underestimate it a bit.
Speaking of the Talos, I think it's safe to say most ppl knows that the Talos dishes out a seriouse amount of DPS, still ppl seem very keen to engage it due to it's squishyness. If you sit 30-40km off a gate and a ceptor jumps in, 50% of the times the ceptor starts to burn for you. Overheat guns and pop goes the unskilled ceptorpilot, a skilled pilot will keep transversal up but 40km away being aligned you always have time to warpout before you get tackled unless your not paying attention. A talos is very capable of brawling down drakes and takeout kiting vagabonds aswell, something ppl seem to forget from time to time.

I'd say give the talos a try!