EVE General Discussion

Workable POSs would have cleaned up a lot of this mess, agreed. It also would have been a better entry point for smaller corps/alliances rather then blowing 22bil on a station just for somewhere to dock and a highly inferior and inefficient version of stations available in highsec for free. About the balancing thing - as it stands, highsec uses only a small fraction of the ore it mines and goods it produces. The majority of everything produced (since EVE's economy is centered around producing PvP ships) in EVE as a whole is consumed by nullsec & lowsec combat. Highsec's current system has incredible surplus beyond what its pilots use in wars and replacing PvE losses, it is a massive exporter of ships/manufactured goods to all other regions.

Any alteration to improve the industrial capacity of nullsec or w-space and whatnot necessarily means highsec would be exporting less due to lowered demand. Personally, I think the amount of buffs needed to trump free stations with dozens of slots that have guaranteed access would be imbalanced in of themselves, and that the only realistic way to implement a graduating scale of rewards to go with risk is simply a placing a sensible hard limit on highsec's surplus manufacturing capacity (like say, 1.5/2x what it loses in PVP). Another alternative other people have been pushing have been cranking up NPC station fees, but I'm not so much a fan of that (I think the costs will more likely be passed onto the consumer before people start leaving, solving nothing)

In a nullsec where small-scale industrialists were important, the alliances that earned their trust would have concrete competitive advantages over those that don't. These sort of problems would resolve themselves through the sandbox - leadership that was accountable would prosper. Those who were secretive and untrustworthy would not. Right now if a industrialist asks question, the alliance ceo looks at him and mentally starts to tabulate the cost of the jump fuel (tens of millions) it would take to replace his contribution of ore/goods to the alliance.

Out of 35 regions, only 7 have technetium in them. Moongoo income distribution is simply not relevant for anyone living outside the CFC or certain HBC alliances. Most alliances use their alliance level income on SRP programs to subsidize active pilots, not give ISK to someone who logs in once a month. Thankfully, I don't believe these terms about how access to non-existent moongoo or a space democracy system are essential to earn 'the trust' of industrialists. The supercap industrialists and null mining corps I've met seem to function fine without those conditions. What's needed is a clear relationship of mutual self-benefit, which doesn't happen between small-scale industrialists and null alliances now because thanks to the non-functionality of null industry, the mutual self-benefit isn't there.

Except that there's not a lot of margin available there is there? 333 ISK/hr/slot on a station that requires zero capital investment and with zero risk of losing the station and being locked out - how much scope do you think there is for 0.0 to compete without increasing hi-sec manufacturing fees?

That said, I absolutely agree with you that fixing POS is the way forward to resolve this issue. You're right on the money there.

Since moon goo(which is primarily a 0.0 resource) is needed for t2 production you could find a way to have t2 production be primarily done in 0.0. Would need to improve POSs and Industry in null first however.

E: To clarify. I don't mean a complete removal of the ability to produce T2 in HS, just giving 0.0 more of an edge. Possibly by increasing material multiplier in HS and keep it standard in 0.0.

Why not just charge Shepard Ogeko more ISK for his battlecriser? He only has to do 3 anomalies, now, in order to afford it. Make him do 6 or 10. Make him keep the loot AND salvage, and make him do some mining while he's are at it.

The bottom line is that you guys are spoiled. You have alts in high sec that you use to take advantage of what's good about high sec. You have alts in null sec that you use to take advantage of what's good in null sec. Now, you want to combine the two. Or, hey, better yet, since you are virtually the kings of null, you'd like to just make null the only viable place to play, economically. Maybe you should be careful what you wish for, though. I don't think you'd be able to hold null quite so easily if high sec, low sec, and wormholes weren't viable alternatives. You say CVA holds its space because it is worthless compared to other null regions, but consider that null alliances do not hold their space because we carebears can't hack it out there. Consider that null alliances might hold their space because the majority of players don't CARE about what you do out there, and ask yourself again if you want us to have a reason to care.

And 6nj.

A constant thorn in the NC side that they couldn't remove in an area of space that empires sent their fleets to die in. It was the Afghanistan of EVE

So 0.0 outposts would cost 0 ISK to build, and there would be no sov bills?

Just bees locking you out of our outpost and waiting for the delicious firesales.

Correct. CVA's space is worthless despite their investing trillions into improving its infrastructure in the form of stations. What do you think that says about the current state of 0.0 industry. I'll consider it. Done. Okay, for a majority of players that don't care, our antics get a lot of forum and media coverage. For a person that doesn't care about what we do, you post a lot about us. e

Heck the biggest problem with null is it is one big circle jerk. You guys look like a continuously running episode of Barnie. Biggest thing to happen in the last year is xXDeathXx and -A- getting wiped off the map. Null sec in many ways is safer than high sec if your in a large alliance. You know well ahead of time the trouble is coming, and it is usually taken care of. Hell when my last toon was in xXDeathXx the PVPers in it were so damn bored they and another null sec sov holder would have regular pvp skirmishes just for the hell of it.

Fact is there isn't anything wrong with null. What is really wrong is the biggest alliances in New Eden being afraid of having a pissing match between each other.

Null Sec Sumed Up In 60 secs

Actually I like this idea. It seems implementable since CCP doesn't plan on fixing POSs, nearly limitless in capacity for all parties, provide incentive for industrialists to take on additional risk, puts in place a minimum amount of risk for industry in highsec (even if it is "you must undock and warp to a POCO to grab your product"). It would improve gameplay for a lot of people. +1

Okay first, moons aren't an "ISK fountain" no matter what anyone says, because moon minerals have no intrinsic value beyond what highsec industrialists are willing to pay for it to build T2. "ISK fountains" is a term used for things that inject ISK into the economy - moon mins are ISK neutral since they merely redistribute it from one party to another. What is happening with moongoo could be better described as an advantaged use of the only truly valuable thing in EVE - manhours. Once defended and secured (which to be fair are massive time sinks), a tech moon can exchange hundreds if not thousands of hours of highseccer mining and building manhours for 10-15 minutes of POS maintenance. With the majority of moons in the majority of regions in EVE, this arrangement is nowhere near as advantageous, with many more effective options for generating ISK then using the terrible POS system.

Assuming that this system relies on ISK generated in null is a bit of an assumption. When Incursion was released in its original form for example, null's ratting population started drying up as 0.0 alliances were moving their ratting alts to highsec to grind their warchests using incursions. Which would also be built and manufactured in highsec with the final product being shipped to null to combat over moons and renter space and stuff. This wasn't just the rank and file, I've talked to alliance leaders who personally ran incursions during this era for their bankroll. Renters were still willing to rat in (now nerfed) supercaps and titans for good money (so there was still reason to capture space to rent out), but other then that even roaming in 0.0 started to die as a side effect of highsec incursions.