EVE Fiction

The EVE Fiction board is not in-character. The questions are valid though.

Just one point before we get to the Q and A though: the Khanid Bloodline and the Khanid Kingdom are not synonymous. The Khanid Kingdom is ruled by the Khanid Royal Family, which is True Amarr. There are ethnic Khanid living in the Kingdom, but there are probably just as many living in the Empire, if not more. I'll take the questions as pertaining to the Kingdom, rather than the bloodline or royal family.

The Kingdom has traditionally had fewer regulations on slavery than the Empire proper. They were infamous for raiding the Gallente and Minmatar for some time after the Empire outlawed such practices, and King Khanid has/had a Gallente pop star as a slave.

However, I believe they eventually aligned themselves to the Empire's restrictive policy, and they definitely have to adhere to it now that they are a part of the Empire again.

I don't think the Kingdom was included in Jamyl's emancipation decree though.

The Khanid Kingdom

Until the recent reunification, the King was the sole authority of the Kingdom and any religious forces were likely to be subservient to him.

Because the writers were having a bad day when they made that up.

Yes. But the Signs of Faith chronicle suggests that one of the cores of their rebellion was the belief that mankind is "above" God.

I don't think Garkeh Khanid's heir has been named. The actual method of heir selection among the other royal houses seems to be by appointment, where the ruler of the house names a successor - usually a child or a close family member (Jamyl Sarum was appointed by her father. When she ascended to the throne she named her cousin, Merimeth, as heir). However, it's possible that different houses have different methods of succession, or that Khanid did away with old rules when he rebelled.

tl;dr: we don't know who Khanid II's successor will be.

It's unfortunately not part of the page on the Khanid Kingdom itself, but the information you are looking for can be found here. The short of it is that the Kingdom helped to capture the traitorous former Amarr Chamberlain Dochuta Karsoth. Some time later there were several meetings between Khanid II and Catiz Tash-Murkon; these were soon followed by meetings with Jamyl I herself which ended with an agreement under which the Kingdom recognized Jamyl as the Empress of all Amarr, while Khanid was again granted a provisional seat on the Privy Council, the governing body of the Empire.

It's unclear exactly how laws or regulations would be dealt with across the borders. Although the agreement allowed the Kingdom to remain "independent", it also entered into a "mutual defense pact" with the Empire, which would suggest a mutual intolerance of groups and acts the Empire considers to be illegal or a violation of the Empire's sovereignty.

Yep. Khanid has bowed to Jamyl, and has a seat in the Privy Council (though it's a bit unclear if he's on the closed or the full council, I presume the latter).

If I may theorize, I believe the Kingdom agreed to become a vassal state in exchange for protection, both from outside forces and from Amarr itself. Jamyl is a warrior queen with a weapon capable of reducing capital fleets to dust in minutes - Khanid must have realized that a renewed Reclaiming would begin with the Kingdom being brought to heel, and his choice stood between certain destruction or honorable submission. He chose wisely, and as a result the Kingdom can keep enjoying most of the freedoms it already had, including self-governance. The Empire probably has installed some new methods of oversight for the Kingdom, but I don't think we've heard of any in the news.

Jamyl is also a realpolitician (and privately secular), and probably shares a lot of the king's world views. Additionally, she must realize the value of the cultural and technological uniqueness of the Kingdom and the trade it maintains with the Caldari State. Unlike the Ammatar Mandate, the Khanid Kingdom is radically progressive. For an empire on war footing, having a less restrictive military-scientific-industrial culture is extremely valuable. By keeping the Kingdom as an independent vassal, Jamyl can have the best of religious feudalism (fanatical and obligated subjects from Amarr) and a place to carry out scientific projects outside the mainstream of the Empire.

The answer to why there is rarely any khanid modules sold in the market is that because it is much cheaper to use those equivalent modules dropped from pirate faction etc True Sansha, Blood Raider and Guristas.

Khanid or ammatar modules would be more expensive because of its rarity, player need to farm LP from those faction member corp, which are pretty far from major trade hubs or sometimes in low sec altogether. So unless you are a role player the appeal are much less diminished for PVPer or PVEer.

Armor faction modules like armor repairers are most popularly derived from pirate faction like true sansha or blood raider, though how sansha use armor repairer when the ships itself is available to us as a shield tank escapes me. While the Ballistic Control Unit modules are most popularly derived from the Guristas pirate faction.

The exception to this rule as far as I know is the Imperial Navy Heat sink which is as good as and more often than not cheaper than their pirate counterpart. The general rule to follow is that your LP would be better spent on items that are not available otherwise in other faction or would take too long to farm elsewhere.

I notice this as well. I believe it is more the case of story line developers trying to paint a black & white picture between Amarr and Khanid, during the game designing process rather than what would have happened.

Even if Khanid reverse the religious dogma of the empire, above and below does not mean total absence of moral and religious beliefs.

We should take note that some Khanids are, storywise, more fanatical and insightful than Amarr in religious matter. There would be opposition to the naming of the ship class from this quarters at the very least. And the designers of these ships even in civil war would object to naming their ships as anti-thesis of their core beliefs.

To those that argue that naming convention matters little in terms of religion, let me give a real-life analogue of the hot-button that occurs in Malaysia on a row between two religious group on what to call God. One claim exclusive right while the other claim it is a national right. I hope that by bringing this up will make it more believable on my version of what would have happened in Eve, but I would say now that I do not wish to argue about this in RL.

The Amarr Empire has royal heirs (aka Prince-electors), which are the successors to the imperial throne and the electoral college etc....; that means the Empire is a elective monarchy with competitively familys and so forth.

The Khanid Kingdom is a absolute monarchy (no electoral college, no prince-electors and MOST OF ALL: NO Theology Council, aka "Ulama"), it can be said that it is a enlightened absolutism. As it tended to allows some religious tolerance (see Order of St. Tetrimon, the rule of law (aka "rule of man") and the right to hold private property. So it is clearly more like the heir domains. He -- Khanid II -- rules over his domain absolute, like a sovereign.

So back to the question.... No hybrid system. A point which I have try to show in my fan page: Khanid King.



As many already mention... because of the colour of their ships.

Yeah... NO.... really NO. And NO..... I think this missleading interpretaion comes form the point that CCP Eterne (aka User:ISD Caleb Kang ) loves the term: "Reunification"... but it was a "Reconciliation"

http://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&redirs=0&search=Reunification&fulltext=Search&ns0=1
http://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&redirs=0&search=Reconciliation&fulltext=Search&ns0=1

As you can see this term is actually in use. As for "Yep. Khanid has bowed to Jamyl" NO.... He bow in respect for the office and person; but not give away any sovereignty. I think this misconception comes, like I mention form the term "Reunification". It wasnt a "Reunification" in the sence; that the Kingdom has lost some of his independence. It is just that with the new pac, the Kingdom hasnt to fear the empire as much as it use too.




So.... I take the freedom and change some stuff form the post here:

"Yep. Khanid has allied himself with Jamyl, and has a seat in the Privy Council: It is the Closed Council: See here.

If I may theorize, I believe the Kingdom agreed to become a ally in exchange for protection form the Empire himself, both from outside forces and from Amarr itself. Jamyl is a warrior queen which had a weapon capable of reducing capital fleets to dust in minutes (she had the Abaddon) - Khanid must have realized that a renewed Reclaiming would begin with the Kingdom being brought to heel, and his choice stood between certain destruction or allying himself with Jamyl. He chose wisely, and as a result the Kingdom can keep enjoying all of the freedoms it already had, including self-governance.

Jamyl is also a realpolitician (and privately secular), and probably shares a lot of the king's world views. Additionally, she must realize the value of the cultural and technological uniqueness of the Kingdom and the trade it maintains with the Caldari State. Unlike the Ammatar Mandate, the Khanid Kingdom is radically progressive. For an empire on war footing, having a less restrictive military-scientific-industrial culture is extremely valuable. By keeping the Kingdom as an independent vassal, Jamyl can have the best of religious feudalism (fanatical and obligated subjects from Amarr) and a place to carry out scientific projects outside the mainstream of the Empire."

The Term "Empress of All Amarr" is another CCP Eterne brain child. Thanks for pointing that out. If I have time I will make a comment on the talk page of the two pages (see link below).

http://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&redirs=0&search=%22Empress+of+All+Amarr%22&fulltext=Search&ns0=1

As the news just talk....of "reign of Jamyl I as Empress of Amarr"..... which means more or less that he accept her role etc..... which makes SENSE... As she had not "normally" enter this position; any move to secure this NEW position makes SENSE.

As for the Idea that Khanid II has captured Dochuta Karsoth, and therefore gain the status of a subject of the empress (and the empire) *snipped*. It makes no sense.
He -- King Khanid -- could keep him (1), kill him (2), use him against the blood raiders (3) or point 4 use him to gain "something" form the empire etc...... There are many game theoretical ways he could act... and they have more or less one thing in commen: "He will gain more benefit". He would only get in to a game with a Empire, if point 4 would be the most juicy ones. Which I can understand, that some see it as the best choice. It isnt something I wouldnt make, as for me is 1 (lying that I had him and keep him first, would be a better move.... but it is just me ...very off topic... see "Epilogue: A pleasant Gift") also a great choice.....

So back again. We have now two players (Khanid II and Jamyl I), and both have a goal. Khanid II to gain some sort of benefit and Jamyl to gain acceptance and the heretic Dochuta Karsoth. And that is in my eyes what happend. She had gain acceptancein the international arena (+ Dochuta Karsoth as bonus), he has gain a seat in the PC. In addition with the pac, he had gain protection from the Empire; and the Empire had gain an ally. So it is a WIN-WIN for both sites. But the Idea, that a player would enter a game with the goal; that he becomes a subject -- aka LOSE -- is ....arrggg *snipped*. I think; before he would make this, he would choose another option (and there are more as the four mention by me). Dont get me wrong, I get how someone gets this impression form the text.





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As for "elective monarchy", yes that term doesnt fit. I think "non inheriting monarchy" will fit better. More or less, the point was to show that Amarr is hybrid system, Kingdom isnt.

Let's carefully analyze Jamyl's declaration in that news article, shall we?

This is not only reconciliary. Look at the wording:

"Back into the embrace of Holy Amarr"

The Kingdom has been outside the Empire, and now it is returning to its previous place as a part of the imperial domain.

It is a reward for the Kingdom to become a part of Amarr again. How could it be anything else?

"He has affirmed his belief most firm in the Word of God and the holy burden of our Empire" That's pretty much the big thing Khanid has been rejecting all along. It is the burden of the Empire to govern God's Creation and the faithful within it. Khanid's separatism was a rejection of this, the belief that he could govern better than the Empire, and that it was not the place of Scripture (The Word of God) to decide whether he should live or die. If Khanid has reaffirmed his acceptance of orthodoxy, both to Scripture and to the Empire, that means he must be a subject of the Empress. There are no other interpretations. The Empress is the supreme and infallible Voice of God - that is the prime foundation of the Post-Reform Scriptures and the Empire built to serve it.

"Kingdom of the Empire" just look at that. A Kingdom of the Empire. Can you take that as anything other than to mean that the Kingdom is now a part of the Amarr Empire? The Empress doesn't just acknowledge the existence of the Kingdom, she gives it to Khanid. If Jamyl recognized King Khanid as an equal sovereign, she wouldn't need to give him the territory he already owns. What's more, he is to rule in the name of Holy Amarr.

Holy Amarr is the Empire. Holy Amarr is governed by the Empress, God's Mouthpiece. The King has acknowledged the Word of God - the Scriptures. The Scriptures decree that the Empress is the supreme ruler. The Empress then gave Khanid the right to rule a Kingdom of the Empire.

Holy Amarr, the Empire, is united once again. To an outsider, it might seem like a simple alliance, but to anyone who knows the terminology of the Empire it should be clear that the King is in submission.

The Empire wouldn't sign a mutual military pact just because some rebellious separatist arrested a wanted criminal. Much less give such a party a position on the most powerful government board in the Cluster for the bargain. The Empire did not value Karsoth that highly, and it had more than enough agents to extract or kill him without selling out to Khanid. If the king suggested a trade of Karsoth for an alliance and a Privy Council seat, the Empress would have laughed in his face. It's easy to suggest that the Kingdom was harboring Karsoth and invade because of it.

Hand over Karsoth and bow before me and I will not destroy you.