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Rookie planning ahead - ship choices

Author
Brinn Matar
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-02-02 07:55:04 UTC
After lots of fiddling with the in-game agent finder and reading these forums I have settled on an NPC corp to mission for (Matari corp ; Matari space ) and now I am trying to decide on ship progression .

I want to focus on missiles and drones , starting mainly with missiles and shifting emphasis to drones as well as shield tanking .

For lvl. 1's I chose the Talwar dessie .

For lvl. 2's I originally picked the Caracal , but then noticed "our" own Bellicose . Doing a search on it showed it to apparently be one of the least often seen ships in space ...
The reason I am considering it is the drone bay . Yes , they are unbonused but wouldn't their dps compensate for the loss of a bonused missile launcher ?
I just think that if I want to train into drone ships eventually the sooner I get familiar with them the better .

For lvl. 3's I can't really find any missile/drone combination other than the Drake . Once I can do lvl. 3 missions comfortably I want to focus on drone skills in order to make the shift to a drone boat .

The ship I chose for lvl. 4's is the Navy Domi (MJD + sentries) possibly shield tanked .

Any comments/advice on these choices appreciated .
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-02-02 09:06:18 UTC
Main advice, don't rush. Don't go for larger ships to the exclusion of everything else, don't expect to be flying a battleship in 4 months (you may be able to, but your support skills will be severely lacking)
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#3 - 2013-02-02 09:26:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Few things you need to realise:

- getting through lvl 1 to 3 is terribly easy and really doesn't require you to train allover the place race wise.
- most non-minmatar ships have trouble doing explosive damage, that navy domi can ofcourse use drones but its railguns won't really be that great against angels
- armor tanked ships (apart from Amarr T2/T3 ones) suck against angels
- Minnie has an awesome BC for lvl 3s and awesome BS/marauder for lvl 4s

So if you choose to be in minmatar space for pve you're generally best off using shield tanked ships that can do explosive. Some caldari ships can (raven/CNR/golem/rattlesnake) but apart from that you're just best off with the Maelstrom, machariel or Vargur.

- edit -

If missile+drones is your thing (for whatever reason, I bet it has to do with it being easy/lazy :P) then I'd go Corax, Caracal, Drake, Rattlesnake. You can stay in your drake for a while as you train up to T2 drones and sentries.
Brinn Matar
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-02-02 10:08:50 UTC
Thanks for the replies .

I feel I didn't elaborate enough in my initial post . I have no intention of rushing through mission levels ; in fact I haven't even done a single mission yet . I am mining in my Venture until I feel comfortable to start lvl.1's and will continue with that
philosophy :) . I am also training up Dessie V / BC V before the change , so no rush .

I plan on shield tanking all ships and tried to choose accordingly . I could be mistaken on the Bellicose's ability to shield tank effectively but have seen a number of posts arguing that the Navy version of the Dominix can do so .

The railguns reduced effectiveness against Angels is something I have not taken into consideration , thanks for that .

The choice of Battlecruisers and Battleships are obviously not of immediate concern - could I have some comment on the Bellicose as a viable lvl. mission ship ?

Thanks again .
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-02-02 10:21:32 UTC
You can do level 1s with a fail-fit frigate, while drunk and half asleep. :-)
Brinn Matar
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-02-02 10:30:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Brinn Matar
I drink far too much coffee to be either drunk or half asleep so I would probably not be able to then :)
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#7 - 2013-02-02 10:46:00 UTC
Here's the thing, if you want drones+missiles to be your thing for mission running then Minmatar has nothing for you for level 4 missions, the Typhoon is terrible for it. So IF you want to go that route you're thus going to aim for the Rattlesnake and if you do that there's no reason for you to use Minmatar ships in the mean time and you might as well focus on Caldari ships for now and moving into Guristas ships when you can.
Merouk Baas
#8 - 2013-02-02 10:54:19 UTC
What they're trying to say is not about rushing through the missions, but the fact that you can skip level1 missions entirely and about half of the level 2 missions, by just training the Connections skill. It's a standings grind, standings towards your Matari Matari corp are what prevents you from jumping straight to level 4 missions. Most people do level 1 - 3 missions for the faction standings as fast as possible, and then they settle on level 4 missions for ISK, LP, and the high-end faction standings.

In addition, you're making a thing out of a profession that is not all that developed - it's just missions, and you'll find less subtlety than the PVE content of other MMO's, which all have a wider variety of mission/quest types, better NPC AI, a clear progression designed to keep you entertained for a few months, lore, etc.

Each race has ships that can be successful in missions; it's not the pinnacle of playing skill.

Missions are about being able to take the damage of a large number of small ship NPCs for a long time. The staple ships are frigate, cruiser, battlecruiser, battleship. Destroyers have a lot of guns, but they also are "attack" ships that don't have a lot of defenses; compared to frigates they can kill 1-5 enemies FAST, but can be overwhelmed by 10+ - you just don't have the small size or number of defensive slots to fit a proper tank.

Personally I would just follow the Minmatar ship line, including their projectile weapon and armor defense skills for the ships that need it. You'd be training projectiles, missiles, drones, shield, and armor, and while it's a little bit longer to train, you'll end up being able to fly a line of ships (Minmatar) that are quite popular (and good) for anything from PVP to missions to Exploration to suicide ganking to transport to anything. For when you get bored of missions and want to do something else.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-02-02 11:16:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Praxis Ginimic
Also, the dessi/bc skill tree split happens on the 12th of this month so I hope you are almost there...and welcome to eve
Brinn Matar
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-02-02 11:21:16 UTC
Hmm , I saw a Dev post stating the split will happen with the summer expansion (April) .

Thank you Merouk Baas and Vilnius Zar . I will be taking that into consideration and choose to concentrate on a single race , most likely Minmatar :)
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-02-02 12:28:49 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
Also, the dessi/bc skill tree split happens on the 12th of this month so I hope you are almost there...and welcome to eve


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2442879#post2442879

CCP Fozzie wrote:
So I now have permission to let you all know that the skill change is scheduled for our Summer expansion 2013 (which most of you know tends to fall in the late spring). We'll be working to make sure that as many people as possible understand the changes beforehand. I know that some of you may feel that we've been stringing you guys along since the changes were first proposed so long ago, but we're working to make sure a huge change like this is done in the most responsible way possible.

To repeat, the skill split is scheduled for the big Summer 2013 expansion.
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#12 - 2013-02-02 13:25:48 UTC
The Cyclone is being turned in to more of a missile ship like the Drake in less than two weeks with the next patch. The Typhoon is slated for a remodel because it is too much or a split personality ship and if I recall correctly will be a missile platform. In addition, all the cruiser were just rebalanced, so any fitting information you read about them that is more than a few months old is our of date.

The destroyer/battlecruier skill split isn't until Summer.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet

Ember Saint
Time-Lost Proto-Drake
#13 - 2013-02-02 14:55:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ember Saint
MadMuppet wrote:
like the Drake

like an active tank bonused caracal with less range but more unbonused drones

but i must add that 'our own' bellicose is pretty good, the reason it's one of the least often seen ships is that the statistics are probably from older times, i.e from times before it became a decent dedicated missile ship.
Lyrah Okkus
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2013-02-02 22:30:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyrah Okkus
Brinn Matar wrote:
I am mining in my Venture until I feel comfortable to start lvl.1's and will continue with that
philosophy :) . .

If you could do the basic military tutorial, you can do level 1 combat missions. but yes, you can skip them with Connections skill.
Octonetwork
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-02-04 11:21:02 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Main advice, don't rush. Don't go for larger ships to the exclusion of everything else, don't expect to be flying a battleship in 4 months (you may be able to, but your support skills will be severely lacking)


I keep reading this but i really don't agree with.

I m 2 month old and i do L4 with my apoc just fine. Mostly T1 mod and all.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-02-04 11:41:56 UTC
Missile/Drone -> Gurista Ships.

Then make the choice Missiles first (caldari) Drone first (Galente)

ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#17 - 2013-02-04 12:07:31 UTC
for missile ship progression on the minmatar line would be breacher > Tolwar( i think thats the minnie dessie) >Bellicouse>Cyclone( being turned into a missile boat come Retribution 1.1)> Typhoon ( will be changed to a more missile role i belive when teiricice hits the BS class)

dont be jumping into the next one as soon as you can though, you will want to get your skills up as high as you can in the previus class with the support skills and hopefully core fittings from the frigate class before you even think of advancing.
Bow'en
Solutum
#18 - 2013-02-04 19:58:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Bow'en
Octonetwork wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Main advice, don't rush. Don't go for larger ships to the exclusion of everything else, don't expect to be flying a battleship in 4 months (you may be able to, but your support skills will be severely lacking)


I keep reading this but i really don't agree with.

I m 2 month old and i do L4 with my apoc just fine. Mostly T1 mod and all.

Here is the thing, it isn't whether you can or can't do it. If you have T1 Drones, T1 Weapons and understand how Tanking works, you can run Level 4s as soon as you get a Battleship.

That said, EVE is not about (and hopefully will never be about) how soon you can do something - it is about how efficiently you do something. That is the point I think is lost here, running Level 4 Missions is not something anyone should be concerned about. If you train toward a Battleship, by the time you can run Level 4s, you will be able to. The question will be, is it worthwhile given your efficiency?

EVE Missions serve one purpose, to generate ISK. By not rushing and prepping your skills you are setting yourself up for greater success from an ISK/hr standpoint (which is the only way to judge how successful you are at L4s).
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#19 - 2013-02-05 00:24:51 UTC
As other people have kind of hinted at, the difficulty with missiles and drones is that there aren't really any ships that are really compatible with using both at once.

Roughly speaking, your best bet is probably Amarr, since missiles and drones are both common secondary weapon systems and there are ships which make drones or missiles the primary weapon (but not both).

The strongest drone race is going to be Gallente, but outside of Stealth Bombers you're not looking at much missile-ness there, and the strongest missile race is Caldari hands-down, but their drones run a bit weak.

You might try eventually moving into the pirate ships that require both Caldari and Gallente, those sound like perhaps what you'll want for PvE. A bit expensive, though, so I'd not move into them for a while.
Davith en Divalone
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-02-05 00:49:54 UTC
Bow'en wrote:
That said, EVE is not about (and hopefully will never be about) how soon you can do something - it is about how efficiently you do something. That is the point I think is lost here, running Level 4 Missions is not something anyone should be concerned about. If you train toward a Battleship, by the time you can run Level 4s, you will be able to. The question will be, is it worthwhile given your efficiency?

EVE Missions serve one purpose, to generate ISK. By not rushing and prepping your skills you are setting yourself up for greater success from an ISK/hr standpoint (which is the only way to judge how successful you are at L4s).


That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at Eve is a game of discovering creative ways to make things go "boom" in space. Getting efficiently paid for it is a different consideration.
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