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The Infrastructure of EVE Online

First post
Author
Xenuria
#81 - 2013-01-30 23:51:58 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
The eight-core E7-2830 @ 2.13 GHz has three times the performance of a dual-core x5260 3.3GHz.


But the difference is less if the critical part of the software can't run in multicore/multithread.

You're saying the critical part of EVE's server-side software can't utilize multiple cores?



It's pretty well known (I thought) that CCP's server and client code is not multi-threaded.





From what I can understand up to this point, the best case scenario would be if CCP found a way to enable the code to better utilize the existing hardware.
Hrothgar Nilsson
#82 - 2013-01-31 00:43:15 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
The eight-core E7-2830 @ 2.13 GHz has three times the performance of a dual-core x5260 3.3GHz.


But the difference is less if the critical part of the software can't run in multicore/multithread.

You're saying the critical part of EVE's server-side software can't utilize multiple cores?



It's pretty well known (I thought) that CCP's server and client code is not multi-threaded.




Wasn't referring to the client code. The server software can't utilize multiple cores?
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#83 - 2013-01-31 02:45:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Just because I didn't see anyone post it, here is a video from last FanFest 2012 titled Growing EVEs infrastructure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj_hHIwInwk&list=SPDDA989F65CD6E98A&index=12


That was actually a good link Smile I hadn't seen that before.

@Xenuria:

CCP is basically breaking down barriers as far as I can see. I don't think any game developer or even private entity has devoted as much time and effort to make something like this possible. I'm sure there are those that have invested huge sums in hardware and infrastructure, but very few that have tried to make something like this possible with less than that. Even then, I'm sure CCP has done as well, and it is possible private concerns are watching and learning.

It's truly awesome.

I consider them to be forging a path for the future of the industry and those like it.

That being said, IBM designed the current server hardware you see in the recent blog that was linked here. I considered it barely enough for the task when I first saw it. I'll give that much of that hardware is exactly what is needed, even now, but it is not enough in itself to handle all the requirements of EVE alone, much less Dust 514.

This has pretty much been proven, even before the events of recent weeks. That supernode is pretty awesome I guess, but it could be better, and much less prone to failure.

All that really needs to be done, is to add some additional servers to handle node reinforcement and things like Jita. These exist, but I believe they are separate from that system and starting to get a bit out-dated in these times. There is much better available, but it is also mostly untested. Maybe in time we'll see it serving EVE.

edit:

Also, I'll leave this here: http://www.nvidia.ca/docs/IO/122874/K20-and-K20X-application-performance-technical-brief.pdf

Now, I have no idea really how to apply this with respect to EVE code and infrastructure, but overall, I'd estimate it could boost certain types of performance substantially. There would likely be code revisions required and much work to get certain of EVEs systems working on a GPU platform, but I expect it would vastly improve combat calculations in massive Fleet battles at the very least.

I have limited familiarity with it myself, but I do understand the potential there. Physics and Science specifically are what these are generally used for; crunching massive amounts of data and computing probabilities and outcomes across a broad spectrum of potential.

I can see them being used in EVE to create planetary movement and handle all the variables involved in such, and to assist in many computing tasks required by the game. These could assist greatly with reducing lag in fleet battles I would think, with some modifications to allow player clicks, weapon firing, missile flight, drone mechanics, and many other aspects of the combat mechanics present in EVE to be handled by them.

I could be wrong, or maybe it would require such a massive overhaul as to make it impractical, but I do believe that the application of GPU level computing is potentially the next level of advancement for some of the major tasks of handling so many different actions and their outcomes by so many users. This is where EVE suffers the most from my perspective.

Getting a bigger CPU doesn't solve everything, and what it does solve, it only does so temporarily and with limitations. GPUs are phenomenally more powerful than CPUs in so many ways. Instruction sets do have to accommodate them however, and much of the architecture of modern computing is intended to run on CPUs instead.
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brinelan
#84 - 2013-01-31 03:34:15 UTC
One of the devblogs and many many dev posts had clarified why they havent multithreaded the server code yet.. it basically came down to syncing actions when spread over multiple cores .. EX someone's ship explodes before everyone on grid is told by the server that they are being shot at.. might want to read those links because those posts where people explained this stuff in this thread came from those dev blogs and the fanfest presentation.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#85 - 2013-01-31 11:42:18 UTC
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
The eight-core E7-2830 @ 2.13 GHz has three times the performance of a dual-core x5260 3.3GHz.


But the difference is less if the critical part of the software can't run in multicore/multithread.

You're saying the critical part of EVE's server-side software can't utilize multiple cores?



It's pretty well known (I thought) that CCP's server and client code is not multi-threaded.




Wasn't referring to the client code. The server software can't utilize multiple cores?


Reading comprehension for teh win?

Bolded the relevant part.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.

Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#86 - 2013-02-01 19:37:47 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Just because I didn't see anyone post it, here is a video from last FanFest 2012 titled Growing EVEs infrastructure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj_hHIwInwk&list=SPDDA989F65CD6E98A&index=12


While interesting as hardware geek pronz, it still doesn't speak to a strategic plan for a dynamic resource allocating architecture, or provide an update on how real the comment on coding underway for dynamic node allocation is progressing to fix lag issues.

The re-enforce node supercomputer that's dependent on players prior notification of an upcoming fleet battle may sound good from a CPU/RAM & 'only defense agencies use this IBM pwnzor server!' marketing hype, but in reality its kinda useless isn't it? Big fleet battles typically do not come with prior notice, they just happen...you know, that whole emergent single sandbox thing core to EVE?

The lack of confirmed & committed plan for a dynamic resource allocating architecture scares me, because TiDi and prior-notice-fleet-servers give the impression CCP is just tweaking at the edges.

And CSM, where are you guys on this? Gameplay mechanics are great and all, but if CCP can't get a scalable dynamic resource allocation architecture right in 10 years to prevent lag, don't we have bigger fish to fry than POS & SOV tweaks?


Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#87 - 2013-02-01 23:22:19 UTC
I gather from this thread that some people have an issue with Xenuria. Why not keep it out of the thread? I mean, seriously, if your not actually going to post anything constructive, or even attempt to answer the questions posed, why even bother posting? Other than being an obvious troll, of course.

I for one, am very much interested by such questions, and the more information regarding the EvE infrastructure the better in my opinion. I also think its admirable for someone to say "I don't know about that" and asking. Just posting "Why not find out the information yourself?" is hardly helpful, and ultimately irrelevant. I suggest you go back under your bridges! Lol

I look forward to further constructive and informative posts regarding this subject! Cool

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#88 - 2013-02-02 03:58:23 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Just because I didn't see anyone post it, here is a video from last FanFest 2012 titled Growing EVEs infrastructure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj_hHIwInwk&list=SPDDA989F65CD6E98A&index=12

While interesting as hardware geek pronz, it still doesn't speak to a strategic plan for a dynamic resource allocating architecture, or provide an update on how real the comment on coding underway for dynamic node allocation is progressing to fix lag issues.

The re-enforce node supercomputer that's dependent on players prior notification of an upcoming fleet battle may sound good from a CPU/RAM & 'only defense agencies use this IBM pwnzor server!' marketing hype, but in reality its kinda useless isn't it? Big fleet battles typically do not come with prior notice, they just happen...you know, that whole emergent single sandbox thing core to EVE?

The lack of confirmed & committed plan for a dynamic resource allocating architecture scares me, because TiDi and prior-notice-fleet-servers give the impression CCP is just tweaking at the edges.

And CSM, where are you guys on this? Gameplay mechanics are great and all, but if CCP can't get a scalable dynamic resource allocation architecture right in 10 years to prevent lag, don't we have bigger fish to fry than POS & SOV tweaks?

It would help if we focused less on random "Boat jumped in a titan instead of bridging it and called for supercaps and they actually came into lowesec" and more into "this structure is very important and has something like a few hundred million hitpoints, so if the enemy is going to take it, they're gonna have to bring everything, so we gotta bring everything... and we know when because of the reinforce timer."

In short, making the mechanics more structure based helps narrow down the location and timeframe of a large engagement.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?