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Drones are now useless in Missions
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David Zahavi
Doomheim
#81 - 2012-12-05 07:27:47 UTC
Lots of people in my alt corp were mentioning in mumble tonight that even in mauraders, their drones were unable to apply damage in any meaningful way, and died too fast throughout the mission to be a) worth the money, and b) made it very hard to kill frigates, if not impossible at times.
Oopsy Bear
Doomheim
#82 - 2012-12-05 07:57:59 UTC
David Zahavi wrote:
Lots of people in my alt corp were mentioning in mumble tonight that even in mauraders, their drones were unable to apply damage in any meaningful way, and died too fast throughout the mission to be a) worth the money, and b) made it very hard to kill frigates, if not impossible at times.


Inferno precision cruise took out spider drones while they were MWD in 3 volleys. Ship had rigor rigs and 2 TP. Never had to release any drones.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#83 - 2012-12-05 08:01:59 UTC
Mund Richard wrote:
dexington wrote:
Anneliese Pollard wrote:
Here's what I think.
Make a high module that allows the capsuleer to extend their tank out to the drone. The drones now have survivability, but at a cost of losing some tank on your ship. The amount changes based on drone size.
Thoughts?

You can remote rep drones...

Please remote rep my webbed Medium/Heavy drones killing a battleship orbiting 30-50km away.
Well, not mines obviously, but that of a myrm for instance, I use Sentries.


Yeah i know it's a ****** idea and only works with sentries, i was just pointing out that it is possible to some extend to use modules to increase survivability of drones.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Vas Eldryn
#84 - 2012-12-05 08:15:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Vas Eldryn
How to use drones in missions:

Deploy drones and recall them 3 times, but you have to wait till they are argoed.... for every spawn you have to repeat...

ultimately gallente are no longer mission ships leaving only caldari as viable mission ships.

massive fail by CCP
Sevchenko Valens
Doomheim
#85 - 2012-12-05 09:27:25 UTC
Oopsy Bear wrote:
On a related note, precision cruise missiles no longer suck. With rigs and TPs frigates don't take long to kill at all. Large missile boats don't really need drones in the missions I tried.



Do you find it was more an issue that they suddenly have a use where before drones were better, or was there actually some buff applied to these "missiles" that my Caldari brethren insist are a thing?
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#86 - 2012-12-05 13:02:23 UTC
Just leave your light drones in the bay unless you get frigates hitting you at close range, kill everything else first except the triggers and stick a web on your primary frigate. Deploy drones, kill frigate, repeat and recall if needed.

If you want to use Drones as damage support, deploy sentries. The only thing this patch has done is make people more aware of their Drone UI and possibly learn to keybind the recall option.


Also I strongly disagree with the both. My Kronos is perfectly fine to mission in now, it's also even prettier than before and 425mm rails sound awesome.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Anneliese Pollard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2012-12-05 13:20:55 UTC
I flew nearly 10 missions last night before downtime.

I did the Serpentis Blockade as one of my last ones. Doing a mission with heavy damps was a good test. I got what I could at range, but had to wait until most was on top of me. Frigates got a paint and hobgoblins. None were targeted. Cruisers that were on top of me received Ogres. Sentries took out most of the BSes. When the trigger is killed, pull the drones. Pretty standard. The next spawn did target the drones. Same MO: establish threat, release drones. This continued throughout the mission. I even released my Ogres to 25km without any issues. Establishing threat is important. A web works, so does a TP. The TP might even be more effective as it helps missiles and your drones. I didn't find the web to be that helpful besides holding targets.

After running missions last night I'm left with this. Once people adapt to the changes it won't be an issue. You definitely need EWAR, although I've only tried webbing and painting. I have not tried anything else, so if anyone wants to test other stuff, feel free. When EWAR was taken off, the drones were targeted. Rather quickly too. Remote reppers do not do the job EWAR does in this situation.

I had 1 drone targeted when I didn't equip EWAR, and I pulled my drones, waited a few seconds, then released them again. The drone survived.

Happy hunting.

xXClideXx
No Taxes Btche
#88 - 2012-12-05 19:27:11 UTC
If I pull full aggro, and then kill everything but frigs and one BS, target paint the BS, and have my drones attack the remaining frigs, will that keep aggro off my drones?
Anneliese Pollard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2012-12-05 21:43:10 UTC
It should.

But you could even paint the frigs at 30k out and they don't switch. I've tried it several times.
Scally Dog
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2012-12-06 00:20:16 UTC
Just to change the subject slightly about drones, does anyone use smartbombs against frigs?

I have only used drones in PVE to take out frigs and the reason why I haven't ever tried using smartbombs is that I heard if you set them off and it hits a neutral entity like an acceleration gate, concord come for you. Maybe fit a heavy cap booster, drop 2 torpedos for smartbombs? Just an idea..
Annunaki soldier
Perkone
Caldari State
#91 - 2012-12-06 20:27:18 UTC
depends on the ship you use, and where you play. Its ok at 0.0, it is a suprice at high sec

For people saying nothing has changed and then see "my kronos is ok" i just lol. Dude you are into a gun boat. Get real, get a drone boat that your damage is from drones.
it the same if you are into ecm rats and they do it all time so you perma jammed like half the time and i do em with setry boat and say its ok, learn to play . Love when people are to narrow minded and insist. Like all those people complaining dont have a clue how to play this game and you the only 1

Ride hard, live with passion 
hungrymanbreakfast
Fixers Corporation
Pillars of Liberty
#92 - 2013-02-02 00:20:23 UTC
tried running drones in sites and missions. Its pointless. Drones buffed for pvp in lowsec and absolutely ruined in pve. Lights that take aggro as they kill something stop and instapop. CCP are of course oblivious to this and dont care so hey guess what. time to use the only effective site runner.... tengu....
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#93 - 2013-02-02 00:31:36 UTC
Please put that in a meno and title it 'sh*t i already have read 100 threads about'. ill get around to reading it in a bit.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Mund Richard
#94 - 2013-02-03 00:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Still doable in drone boats, as I am doing them.

Not the most pleasant entertainment, did have to adapt a lot to it and experiment on both SiSi and TQ, but now I kinda got the hang of it.

Do have drones taking hull damage sometimes, got elite frigs as highest priority target to the point where I concentrate all firepower on them, did put ALL my medium/heavy drones (apart from ECM) into the sell/recycle container Roll, but this year, my only drone losses were - of all things - in L3s because I was experimenting there with T2 fitted Myrm and T1 drones instead of in L4 using a BS and T2 (sentry) drones. Roll

Of course, there's a trick to it.
More precisely there are multiple tricks, pick one. And they *are* tricks.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Kendall Wood
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#95 - 2013-02-03 02:50:35 UTC
I just tried running a level 2 blockade using a vexor with my n00bish skills. After losing the 6th 7th drone I just shut off my mods and let the ship die. Pointless to even try missions when you can't have your major DPS deployed long enough to even kill one ship. In a level 2 of all things. Back to the dustbin this toon goes.
Kuro Bon
Test Corp 123
#96 - 2013-02-03 04:24:47 UTC


as long as you are the most dangerous thing in range, they will generally stay shooting at you. the thing you can't do anymore is kite from out of range while drones pick away. to me that always seemed like a ridiculous ai exploit.

Protip: 100M ISK per hour is about $3US an hour.
Mund Richard
#97 - 2013-02-03 13:32:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Kuro Bon wrote:
as long as you are the most dangerous thing in range, they will generally stay shooting at you.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.
Sometimes my light drones get agro from elite frigs even with cruise missiles shooting and target painters on them, while at other times they just stick to me while I absent-mindedly slowboat towards a gate.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Kuro Bon
Test Corp 123
#98 - 2013-02-03 14:35:03 UTC
Mund Richard wrote:
Kuro Bon wrote:
as long as you are the most dangerous thing in range, they will generally stay shooting at you.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.
Sometimes my light drones get agro from elite frigs even with cruise missiles shooting and target painters on them, while at other times they just stick to me while I absent-mindedly slowboat towards a gate.



the question you have to ask is... are YOU in range of THEIR guns.

of course if you are shooting cruise missles at frigs 50km+ away, and the ONLY thing in their range to shoot at are your drones, they are going to shoot at them. wouldn't anybody?

the most common times i see my drones shot at is when i engage ships on the edge of their range, and the ships behind them have nothing in range but my drones.

that said, the new AI does occasionnally switch to drones even when i do everything right. it's no more costly than ammo. HOWEVER it does call into question the small sizes of drone bays.

Protip: 100M ISK per hour is about $3US an hour.
Mund Richard
#99 - 2013-02-03 16:39:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Kuro Bon wrote:
Mund Richard wrote:
Kuro Bon wrote:
as long as you are the most dangerous thing in range, they will generally stay shooting at you.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.
Sometimes my light drones get agro from elite frigs even with cruise missiles shooting and target painters on them, while at other times they just stick to me while I absent-mindedly slowboat towards a gate.

the question you have to ask is... are YOU in range of THEIR guns.

of course if you are shooting cruise missles at frigs 50km+ away, and the ONLY thing in their range to shoot at are your drones, they are going to shoot at them. wouldn't anybody?

I don't send light ones outside 10 km, or they won't make it back, rather 1-shot snipe with sentries, or wait a bit.

So just to clarify, I see target swaps when everyone is totally in range of everyone else more or less (else I have sentries out, and then the ranges are the same yet again), and even then sometimes to a ship that pretty much just sat still.
When rats are outside the range, I rarely see them swap.
Maybe those that spawned 100km from warp-in do, but those I don't care about, as they die before they get into their gunnery range, and thus don't take notable damage (nor my drones, if those are swapped to).

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#100 - 2013-02-03 17:12:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Kuro Bon wrote:
Mund Richard wrote:
Kuro Bon wrote:
as long as you are the most dangerous thing in range, they will generally stay shooting at you.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.
Sometimes my light drones get agro from elite frigs even with cruise missiles shooting and target painters on them, while at other times they just stick to me while I absent-mindedly slowboat towards a gate.



the question you have to ask is... are YOU in range of THEIR guns.

of course if you are shooting cruise missles at frigs 50km+ away, and the ONLY thing in their range to shoot at are your drones, they are going to shoot at them. wouldn't anybody?

the most common times i see my drones shot at is when i engage ships on the edge of their range, and the ships behind them have nothing in range but my drones.

that said, the new AI does occasionnally switch to drones even when i do everything right. it's no more costly than ammo. HOWEVER it does call into question the small sizes of drone bays.



Interesting theory. Doesnt explain why salvage drones get shot.

Also, from personal experience the AI can, will and does swap to drones when it feels like it.

Basically: If you want to not keep buying new ones, use lights - no more than 10km out and fit blasters/ACs because your drones are a short range weapon system now so the rest of the fit might as well brawl too. OR use MJD/sentry hilarity. Those are your three choices.