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Never cease to be amazed by the playerbase here...

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Michael Nezerol
Planetary Bombardment Association
#21 - 2013-02-01 19:34:49 UTC
Gogela wrote:
pffft. Lame OP. I've been playing for over 6 years... sometimes in the past I was addicted and played a LOT... now I play very casually. People who have been playing as long as me and longer aren't any one way. If you are meeting vets that play constantly and treat casual players badly that's their deal... but not everyone is like that. Most of the vets I know play casually now. I mean come on... I've run the 5/10 plexes. I don't care. They're all yours. If people are getting pi**** at you and they're a vet it's probably for one of a few reasons:

1) You're in an active alliance that expects you to show up for fleet ops and you rarely do. In that case you joined the wrong group, 'cuz those guys don't play casually. Solution: find a casual alliance.

2) You are getting into their complexes and screwing with their cash flow / security, but being casual make you a hard target to pin down. Those guys are just frustrated with you. Solution: enjoy their tears. Taunt them.

3) You are a carebear and don't ever tank your high sec mining ship, and on the rare occasions you log in you get ganked because you don't play enough to know what's going on where. This means you are not moving your character forward in ISK terms, and watching others who play more than you advancing at a good clip further frustrates you with jealousy. You've noticed it's mostly vets doing the ganking, so you blame them for all your shortcomings in the game because it's easier than adjusting your own behavior. Solution: HTFU

Today's therapy session brought to you by the profession of "piracy", the number "1", and the letter "G"

You're welcome. Pirate


And welcome, you're totally wrong at all fronts. Sure, I might seem like a carebear, but I want to see this game improve, not going the long way to downfall like so much other promising MMO's who listened only to power-alliances Roll
Whitehound
#22 - 2013-02-01 19:35:03 UTC
Michael Nezerol wrote:
Oh, I do respect 0-sec players for the risk they take (and the rare minerals, BPO's/BPCs and other tech they bring in :P). ...

I don't think you do. You are only showing that you are jealous over their resources. They have to fight hard to gain these resources and to keep them. It is then easy to say they have blobs. You first need to get enough players to work with you and for the same goals before you can actually have a blob. This requires making sacrifices and I am not sure if you yet understand this. Many have failed in 0.0 and success in 0.0 is hard to earn. Try to respect it.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2013-02-01 19:36:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Michael Nezerol wrote:
I've played plenty of MMOs. But IMHO, the relative disrespectfull attitude towards people who want to take it more 'casual' (relative speaking, since there's no true 'casual' in this game) is amazing and annoying and one of the worst examples that I've met to date.

Yes, I know that PvP is a major theme in this game. But it isn't the only theme. Sure, you can get suicide ganked, even in high sec. You can get robbed, tricked, etc. All part of the gameplay (those who don't accept this, have failed to read the description, guidelines and reviews). No harm done there.

http://youtu.be/pAoaW0vyKR8

gotta protect our precious 'casuals' who can fly 100 ships at once in total safety

not the casuals whose ice mining income is effected by such multiboxing increasing the supply
just the casuals who casually need to mine enough ice to pay for 100 plexes a month
its a playstyle and eve is a sandbox that is meant to allow all playstyles therefore you must support it
Michael Nezerol
Planetary Bombardment Association
#24 - 2013-02-01 19:41:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Nezerol
Din Chao wrote:
The reason a lot of players seem to only make suggestions that benefit themselves may have a lot to do with the level of specialization in the game. Of course a wormhole or nullsec player will be more impassioned and informed about the aspects of the game that effect him. As would a miner or mission-runner. I couldn't tell you the first thing about trading or manufacturing. Or PVP, for that matter (I suuuuuuuuuuuuck).


Can agree with that :)


Whitehound wrote:
Michael Nezerol wrote:
Oh, I do respect 0-sec players for the risk they take (and the rare minerals, BPO's/BPCs and other tech they bring in :P). ...

I don't think you do. You are only showing that you are jealous over their resources. They have to fight hard to gain these resources and to keep them. It is then easy to say they have blobs. You first need to get enough players to work with you and for the same goals before you can actually have a blob. This requires making sacrifices and I am not sure if you yet understand this. Many have failed in 0.0 and success in 0.0 is hard to earn. Try to respect it.


/facepalm
No I do not. If I were to be 'jealous of their resources', I'd had taken other routes. I play for fun. What bothers me is the attitude however of a lot of people. Like I said, I don't mind a little requesting benefitting for themselves. What I do warn for though is that there's a limit however to how far you can go.
Like 0-sec, low-sec and high-sec are bound together, so are 'hardcore' and 'casual'-players. You need hardcore players to spread the original word of mouth, but in case you only pay attention to the 'hardcore' players, you're bound to scare off/annoy 'casual' (in that respect, in general 'newer') players.

Edit: As for:

Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Change the game or lose subs thread# 108973450892341-298462143-98213457-21394687234698234707-971niner.


If I don't like a game, I just leave. No ifs or buts. If I post topics like this, I attempt to give feedback, not cry about something Blink
Whitehound
#25 - 2013-02-01 19:45:03 UTC
Michael Nezerol wrote:
/facepalm
No I do not. If I were to be 'jealous of their resources', I'd had taken other routes. I play for fun. What bothers me is the attitude however of a lot of people. Like I said, I don't mind a little requesting benefitting for themselves. What I do warn for though is that there's a limit however to how far you can go.
Like 0-sec, low-sec and high-sec are bound together, so are 'hardcore' and 'casual'-players. You need hardcore players to spread the original word of mouth, but in case you only pay attention to the 'hardcore' players, you're bound to scare off/annoy 'casual' (in that respect, in general 'newer') players.

All I am saying is to try and see the game from their side and how hard it is for them to have success. You need to agree that it deserves respect. So even if someone comes and gives you BS do you ignore it and look behind it. You might surprise the little scrub and find a really nice player behind that attitude.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#26 - 2013-02-01 19:52:21 UTC
Deleted a post according to the following rule:

Quote:
6. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another. Text of this nature is not beneficial to the community spirit and will not be tolerated. Corporation, faction and alliance members and other players are cautioned to avoid allowing “in character” disputes from becoming "out of character" personal attacks. The game is designed for role-playing and/or portraying a role and it is sometimes easy for tempers to flare when the lines between the virtual world and the real world are crossed. Please keep in-game disputes in the game and off the forum unless it is clearly a mutual, in-character exchange.


Let's keep things civil, respectful, and productive.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#27 - 2013-02-01 19:55:30 UTC
Din Chao wrote:
Or PVP, for that matter (I suuuuuuuuuuuuck).


Practice makes perfect. I used to suck at PvP a year ago. I decided to finally learn how to do it. A year later, I still suck. But I suck much less...
Charles Case
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-02-01 20:12:51 UTC
Michael Nezerol wrote:
I've played plenty of MMOs. But IMHO, the relative disrespectfull attitude towards people who want to take it more 'casual' (relative speaking, since there's no true 'casual' in this game) is amazing and annoying and one of the worst examples that I've met to date.

Yes, I know that PvP is a major theme in this game. But it isn't the only theme. Sure, you can get suicide ganked, even in high sec. You can get robbed, tricked, etc. All part of the gameplay (those who don't accept this, have failed to read the description, guidelines and reviews). No harm done there.

And certainly in every game I've played so far major alliances have tried to push the dev to insert stuff favorable to especially them.
But the way long-term players (especially 0-sec players) treat 'casual' players is astonishing - and on about the same level as 'WoW-kiddies (as I like to call them), and that's saying something, and that's not positive.

Certainly, the game needs progress and new updates. But never ever before I've even seen that NOWHERE any long-time member speaks up and says 'Shouldn't we try to keep this game together?' Since of ALL suggestions by long-term players, NOWHERE I see something that not only will benefit both 0-sec, high-sec, 'hardcore' and 'casual' - and 99% of the cases it the suggestion benefits the 0-sec, 'hardcore' players, with the other 1% benefitting the high-sec, 'hardcore' players.
While you DO want new players into this game, or are you really that narrow-minded?


What is bothering you Michael Nezerol? Talk to me.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-02-01 20:17:15 UTC
whenever i get on a roll about npc corps or wormholes these threads start to pop up regularly
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-02-01 20:26:21 UTC
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:
Hisec is the epitome of a low risk isk fountain. Where anyone with half a brain can get billions monthly with very little work. I have a blue that uses 3 hulks and an orca daily. within 4 DAYS in a month he has already plexed all of his toons. All because of hisec mining done very much unattentively.


Max hypothetical profit would be something like 70 million ISK an hour, or 30 hours to PLEX all accounts.

But that is not even possible in the high sec belts that are gone in anywhere from 20-60 minutes depending on how fat it is. Then you have to move, have to empty the orca, are going to have some half-cycles no matter how attentive you are. So max "realistic" profit from 3 hulks and an orca would be more like 60 million ISK an hour, or 35-40 hours. BUT, that is highly attentive mining.

Inattentive mining, maybe 45-50 million, or 45-50 hours.

And that doesn't including any travel, transport, market time.



I don't know, but I've been told, that null sec ratters in carriers can put in the neighborhood of 50 million a tick, or close to 150 million ISK an hour.. in complexes that auto re-spawn as soon as they complete. Deposited directly into their wallets without having to haul, market, blah, blah. With 1 account... so, PLEX in 4 hours compared to 40-50+ hours of high sec mining.

Now, this isn't a call to nerf carrier ratting in null.

I'm simply saying that if he is PLEXing all his accounts high sec mining in 4 days, those are 4 LONG, HARD days of high attentive mining, and then adding that high sec mining is far from the most profitable activity in the game.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#31 - 2013-02-01 20:40:25 UTC
As a casual player in a PVP game and one who uses stealth and intel to avoid PVP, I always felt that the real theme of a sandbox is to play it in a manner not entirely intended.

That's probably the real contradiction around here, PVPer's screaming what a sandbox this is supposed to be, while claiming we should all be into PVP.

But real liberty is not requiring acceptance and permission from someone else. They have a right to their opinions, and we have the right to ignore them.



Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#32 - 2013-02-01 20:44:05 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:
Hisec is the epitome of a low risk isk fountain. Where anyone with half a brain can get billions monthly with very little work. I have a blue that uses 3 hulks and an orca daily. within 4 DAYS in a month he has already plexed all of his toons. All because of hisec mining done very much unattentively.


Max hypothetical profit would be something like 70 million ISK an hour, or 30 hours to PLEX all accounts.

But that is not even possible in the high sec belts that are gone in anywhere from 20-60 minutes depending on how fat it is. Then you have to move, have to empty the orca, are going to have some half-cycles no matter how attentive you are. So max "realistic" profit from 3 hulks and an orca would be more like 60 million ISK an hour, or 35-40 hours. BUT, that is highly attentive mining.

Inattentive mining, maybe 45-50 million, or 45-50 hours.

And that doesn't including any travel, transport, market time.



I don't know, but I've been told, that null sec ratters in carriers can put in the neighborhood of 50 million a tick, or close to 150 million ISK an hour.. in complexes that auto re-spawn as soon as they complete. Deposited directly into their wallets without having to haul, market, blah, blah. With 1 account... so, PLEX in 4 hours compared to 40-50+ hours of high sec mining.

Now, this isn't a call to nerf carrier ratting in null.

I'm simply saying that if he is PLEXing all his accounts high sec mining in 4 days, those are 4 LONG, HARD days of high attentive mining, and then adding that high sec mining is far from the most profitable activity in the game.


OR, you just playing the game wrong.

That carrier in null sec making "150 mil an Hour" (lol, i'd love to see that btw) is under constant threat, and needs certain anomalies to be open, and will have to safe up if any non blue is in system.....

Our you could take about the same isk investment and a LOWER sp investment, get in a priate faction ship and make 180 mil an hour doing high sec HQ fleet incursions, where it doesn't matter who is in local (you can be in an HQ fleet wardecced anyways so all you have to worry about is suicide ganking.....with 11 logi ships on your side....) and an FC is going to tell you what buttons to push when.

i make more than 70 mil an hour doing high sec missions with a mach and tengu. if you can't make more than 70 mil an hour in high sec, your isk making operation is horrible.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-02-01 21:02:00 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
OR, you just playing the game wrong.


It is a game, and therefor, exists for enjoyment.

I'm playing the game how I enjoy playing it, and therefore, am playing it correctly.

Anyone who thinks that they know what I enjoy, better than I know what I enjoy, must be one serious egotistical fool.



Jenn aSide wrote:

i make more than 70 mil an hour doing high sec missions with a mach and tengu. if you can't make more than 70 mil an hour in high sec, your isk making operation is horrible.


I was not attempting to assert that high sec mining is max profit activity. I was simply addressing the person's comment that his "friend" was able to PLEX 4 account in 4 days by mining, and mining is done unattentively. Yeah, maybe 14 hours a day for 4 days, unattentively.


Your entire post appears to be a straw-man... making a false image of my post to burn. Fail on you.

How about responding to what I was actually saying?
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#34 - 2013-02-01 21:42:02 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
OR, you just playing the game wrong.


It is a game, and therefor, exists for enjoyment.

I'm playing the game how I enjoy playing it, and therefore, am playing it correctly.

Anyone who thinks that they know what I enjoy, better than I know what I enjoy, must be one serious egotistical fool.


If you enjoy inefficient grinding, more pwoer to you. it doesn't take me a week to make a plex in high sec.



Quote:

I was not attempting to assert that high sec mining is max profit activity. I was simply addressing the person's comment that his "friend" was able to PLEX 4 account in 4 days by mining, and mining is done unattentively. Yeah, maybe 14 hours a day for 4 days, unattentively.


Your entire post appears to be a straw-man... making a false image of my post to burn. Fail on you.

How about responding to what I was actually saying?


I did, YOU were the one who compared it a CARRIER in null sec. Why aren't you comparing mining to mining?
HollyShocker 2inthestink
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#35 - 2013-02-01 21:51:47 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Change the game or lose subs thread# 108973450892341-298462143-98213457-21394687234698234707-971niner.


Troll thread reply # 108973450892341-298462143-98213457-21394687234698234707-97 as usual no value to add.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2013-02-01 22:38:59 UTC
lol @ OP
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-02-01 22:41:03 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
I'm playing the game how I enjoy playing it, and therefore, am playing it correctly.

If you really believe that to be true, then there's really no help for you.

Hey, let's all play whatever we want, the way we want,
because when we enjoy it we are doing it right,
no matter what.

*rollseyes*

Nice troll thread, really.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#38 - 2013-02-01 22:45:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
I'm in what I'd like to call a border Alliance, one that operates in hisec as well as lowsec. We are experiencing firsthand that PVE, PVP manufacturing and the economy go hand in hand, and aren't seperate 'playstyles' unless you fully solo. During peacetime you might find a few pvp-ers camping the gate people use when hauling materials. During war these same pvp-ers go out into hisec to scout for WT's and escort the occasional low-value transport. At all times our POSes remain up because of miners and industrialists. So all of these 'playstyles' can actuually converge into a single gameplay experience in which you have a certain role. It's almost as if this were some sort of Role Playing Game...Cool

I want to respect any and all playstyles, but the trick is you can't. It's a sandbox, some people will inevitably play in a way that irritates you. Whether they camp the same gate 24/7, are not active enough, have only their own interest at heart etc... and I feel people should be free to judge and act on these matters. You can oppose or be against a certain type of playstyle, but there's no reason to burn a person to the ground for the way they play a sandbox game. There are many ways to show your discontent ingame (and possibly halt or stagger the activities you despise) without attacking someone on a personal level. Think in wardecs and hulkageddons.

That's how we should show each other some damn disrespect! Big smile
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#39 - 2013-02-01 22:47:19 UTC
Most people argue for their own little corner, and look to keep things the way they want it to be. This is doublely so for most nullsec and lowsec players. Its pretty rare for them to support suggestions that improve EvE as a whole. Mostly its just "my way is the way the game should be played, your way is wrong, etc etc".

I'm a strong supporter of EvE as a whole, and embrace the fact that many people play EvE for many different reasons. Limiting the game to one side of these opinions just reduces EvE, lessens its greatness.

When it boils down to it, most people are just selfish i guess. Shocked

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Shamus O'Reilly
Candy Cabal
#40 - 2013-02-01 23:07:08 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Shamus O'Reilly wrote:
Hisec is the epitome of a low risk isk fountain. Where anyone with half a brain can get billions monthly with very little work. I have a blue that uses 3 hulks and an orca daily. within 4 DAYS in a month he has already plexed all of his toons. All because of hisec mining done very much unattentively.


Max hypothetical profit would be something like 70 million ISK an hour, or 30 hours to PLEX all accounts.

But that is not even possible in the high sec belts that are gone in anywhere from 20-60 minutes depending on how fat it is. Then you have to move, have to empty the orca, are going to have some half-cycles no matter how attentive you are. So max "realistic" profit from 3 hulks and an orca would be more like 60 million ISK an hour, or 35-40 hours. BUT, that is highly attentive mining.

Inattentive mining, maybe 45-50 million, or 45-50 hours.

And that doesn't including any travel, transport, market time.



I don't know, but I've been told, that null sec ratters in carriers can put in the neighborhood of 50 million a tick, or close to 150 million ISK an hour.. in complexes that auto re-spawn as soon as they complete. Deposited directly into their wallets without having to haul, market, blah, blah. With 1 account... so, PLEX in 4 hours compared to 40-50+ hours of high sec mining.

Now, this isn't a call to nerf carrier ratting in null.

I'm simply saying that if he is PLEXing all his accounts high sec mining in 4 days, those are 4 LONG, HARD days of high attentive mining, and then adding that high sec mining is far from the most profitable activity in the game.

he gets up, logs in mines iin hulks for max isk or macks for max studying. finishes studying and work. logs off after mineral refining with estimate of 300 to 500 mil daily. he has it down to a science that he knows which systems for the day have max yield and wipes at least a system clean daily

"I swear there are more people complaining over "nullsecers complaining" then actual nullsec people complaining."