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On Marriage: Amarr and Minmatar (Seeking Guidance)
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Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#61 - 2013-01-31 21:40:51 UTC
PIE has a lot of very visible Ni-Kunni nowadays, actually, now that I bother to look at it.

Good for PIE!
Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2013-01-31 22:00:40 UTC
Forgive me for being so blunt but it must be said, your feelings for this woman are of little actual concern. If you truly consider yourself faithful and devout, your romantic feelings quite simply do not matter. What matters is whether or not this Aleria lives a faithful and righteous life. Legally she has been entrusted to your care, as such it's clear the former Holder did not think her fit to be freed yet. However you are now her Holder, that decision is now yours to make. Do not let your feelings cloud your judgement here. Your first charge, regardless of if you wanted the responsibility or not, is to bring her into God's grace.

Freeing her out of love when she is not ready is selfish and a betrayal of your principles.
Loving her (in a physical sense) is an abuse of your position and charge as her Holder.

In a way your path is now at a simple footbridge, so thin and precarious is the crossing and falling to either side spells doom not only for you but for her as well. Similarly, lingering in such a place might just strain the bridge too much and cause it to buckle.
Mitara Newelle
Newelle Family
#63 - 2013-01-31 22:01:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mitara Newelle
Firstly, do not presume to know me, nor be able to speak for me, Mr Trucido.
Ferinus Trucido wrote:

This is actually a very interesting post, Ni-Kinni. You are correct, we are not all equal. You are in fact a lesser race in the Empire. While Brother Arcturus is a commoner, he is still a True Amarr. Thus, his own affiars, while he saw fit to release them to the entire IGS (in the search of more Amarr Theologians), are above your purview.

Except for the two facts, one: he is seeking advice in a public medium, and two: I am his commanding officer in PIE, which whether you or anyone else likes it or not, does make his actions subject to my purview.

Quote:

Very well, but you are Ni-Kunni, who not even that long ago, would have been under the direct physical control of True Amarr.

Yes? So what is your point? I never said anything to the contrary.

Quote:

Why then, with these distinctions, would it matter if this True Amarr married a Matari woman?

If you are placing the Matari as equals with the Ni-Kunni, you are sorely out of touch with reality and the times. As to why it matters, she is well below his station, simple as that.

Quote:
Did not some forward thing True Amarr have to create YOUR place in OUR Empire? Did not some True Amarr choose to make YOU and YOUR kind more than property? Since the obvious answer is "yes"

Your grasp of the well documented, and well understood history of our people is impressive. Bravo. That forward thinking True Amarr you are mentioning here was likely the Emperor, however, not a commoner.

Quote:

In addition, as a Ni-Kunni, would a True Amarr be "lowering himself" if he sought you as a wife?

A True Amarr of Faith and good standing within the Empire would be, yes, not to mention that I am already married to a most wonderful gentleman, pursuing another man's wife is generally something all frown upon.

As stated above, so long as Initiate Arcturus is a PIE pilot, it is within my power to say "No, if you wish to remain a Praetorian". However, I have not said such a thing. I am merely pointing out such an action would not be looked upon favorably by many of his peers.

I personally see your views as what weakens our Empire and our civilization.

Lady Mitara Newelle of House Sarum, Holder of the Mekhios province of Damnidios Para'nashu, Champion of House Sarum, Sworn Upholder of the Faith, Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Admiral of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Ohrud Omel
Ministry of Internal Order
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2013-02-01 17:50:49 UTC
I shall attempt to clear up some legal concerns raised by my earlier statements.

1) It is not illegal for capsuleers to transport slaves as cargo within the Empire.
2) It is not illegal for Holders to place their slaves on the open market within the Empire.
3) The SCC-controlled and maintained interstellar marketplace is considered a legal open market by the Empire due to CONCORD treaties.
4) It is not illegal for individuals of all social standing within the Empire to purchase goods and services off an open market.
5) The SCC does not mandate any restrictions based on social standing on any transactions that occur on its interstellar marketplace.

I can only comment on the base legality of the situation, but am unable to provide commentary on the social, moral, or ethical implications of capsuleers of non-Holder birth who own slaves.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#65 - 2013-02-01 19:05:14 UTC
Ohrud Omel wrote:
I shall attempt to clear up some legal concerns raised by my earlier statements.

1) It is not illegal for capsuleers to transport slaves as cargo within the Empire.
2) It is not illegal for Holders to place their slaves on the open market within the Empire.
3) The SCC-controlled and maintained interstellar marketplace is considered a legal open market by the Empire due to CONCORD treaties.
4) It is not illegal for individuals of all social standing within the Empire to purchase goods and services off an open market.
5) The SCC does not mandate any restrictions based on social standing on any transactions that occur on its interstellar marketplace.

I can only comment on the base legality of the situation, but am unable to provide commentary on the social, moral, or ethical implications of capsuleers of non-Holder birth who own slaves.


Don't you have some banned books to be chasing down, you toads?

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2013-02-01 19:24:10 UTC
I was just thinking that.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#67 - 2013-02-01 19:45:47 UTC
What, you think a Grand Inquisitor can't take a little time out of his day to help some fellow Amarrian with a matter like this? They're people too, you know.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#68 - 2013-02-01 19:53:53 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
They're people too, you know.


Having been on the receiving end of MIO "justice" in my past I can assure you that they in fact, are not.




Sabik now, Sabik forever
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#69 - 2013-02-01 20:00:55 UTC
Well, you can't expect the inhuman to be treated humanely by a self-respecting person. That's just asking too much.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu
Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#70 - 2013-02-01 20:17:57 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
They're people too, you know.


Having been on the receiving end of MIO "justice" in my past I can assure you that they in fact, are not.



Was this before or after you declared for the Sabik? Because, I mean . . . yeah, that makes it understandable.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#71 - 2013-02-01 20:30:46 UTC
Alizabeth Vea wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
They're people too, you know.


Having been on the receiving end of MIO "justice" in my past I can assure you that they in fact, are not.



Was this before or after you declared for the Sabik? Because, I mean . . . yeah, that makes it understandable.


As this is off-topic from the original posting we can discuss elsewhere at a later time.

Back to inter-racial marriage intrigue!

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#72 - 2013-02-01 20:39:46 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Alizabeth Vea wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
They're people too, you know.


Having been on the receiving end of MIO "justice" in my past I can assure you that they in fact, are not.



Was this before or after you declared for the Sabik? Because, I mean . . . yeah, that makes it understandable.


As this is off-topic from the original posting we can discuss elsewhere at a later time.

Back to inter-racial marriage intrigue!



Alright.

I did have a question for the inquisitor. If I buy slaves off the Amarrian market and simply . . . abscond with them, how does that fit in with the Amarr legal system?

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Kazzzi
Heathen Legion
Iron Men of the Hood
#73 - 2013-02-01 23:29:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Kazzzi
Flavius Arcturus wrote:
I Love this woman.

If this is so and there is to be a wedding, perhaps I can help you with some inspiration to make it a memorable occasion.

Here is a video of Queen Synthia and I being married in the Grand Cathedral of Kaztropol. We spared no expense really, was worth every ISK and Kazerius.

I suggest you throw caution to the wind and follow your heart. If the opinion of corrupt imperial authorities concern you enough that you would consider giving up this woman, then do you really love her?
Lyrah Okkus
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#74 - 2013-02-02 00:48:45 UTC
Alizabeth Vea wrote:
If I buy slaves off the Amarrian market and simply . . . abscond with them, how does that fit in with the Amarr legal system?

And do what? Keep them as slaves somewhere else? Dump them on some other empire. Say "You're free now - but in a strange country. Maybe you are even worse off than you were before. You are completely separated from your culture and everything you know, Oh and if you pray to your god then someone will beat you"? Take a Caldari laborer. Maybe a janitor. Someone trying to get that promotion. Drag them across the region to drop them on some godforsaken corner of Solitude. No money, no job, no language. Only a street corner. Will they be happy for this?
Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#75 - 2013-02-02 01:57:27 UTC
Lyrah Okkus wrote:
Alizabeth Vea wrote:
If I buy slaves off the Amarrian market and simply . . . abscond with them, how does that fit in with the Amarr legal system?

And do what? Keep them as slaves somewhere else? Dump them on some other empire. Say "You're free now - but in a strange country. Maybe you are even worse off than you were before. You are completely separated from your culture and everything you know, Oh and if you pray to your god then someone will beat you"? Take a Caldari laborer. Maybe a janitor. Someone trying to get that promotion. Drag them across the region to drop them on some godforsaken corner of Solitude. No money, no job, no language. Only a street corner. Will they be happy for this?


Maybe I'm opening up a pleasure hub in VFK? It doesn't matter what I intend to do with them.
Better yet, legaly speaking, the OP buys this girl on the open market, sends me a mail and next week is in a CFC alliance in Deklein and they get married. What then?

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Lyrah Okkus
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2013-02-02 02:07:47 UTC
On the question of legality I will defer to the honorable Grand Inquisitor. I do not think a marriage of a slave and a freeman conducted outside the Empire will be seen as valid within the Empire. I may be wrong. If he wanted to emigrate from the Empire it would be as easy as you said. But that is a large and uncertain "If".
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#77 - 2013-02-02 09:32:01 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
PIE has a lot of very visible Ni-Kunni nowadays, actually, now that I bother to look at it.

Good for PIE!


It's always been the case that some of PIE's most prominent members have been Ni-Kunni - Hardin, Golan Trevize and Archbishop are the prime examples.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Bai'xao Meiyi
#78 - 2013-02-02 10:20:35 UTC
There is an entire galaxy out there, where god placed you and gifted you the ability to explore and find your place. God also gave you and this woman the ability to love.

You know her as a true believer, to an Amarr this should be enough and retaining her in bonds is sinful. Free her of her bonds, take her away from the empires grasp and give her the choice. If she truly loves you she will stay, if not your relationship would not have lasted, regardless.

Find a home, build a home, take one, regardless of how you choose to go about it, set about making a life with her, Ensure your needs are met then expand upon them. If the Empire has anything to say, then tough for them, capsuleers cannot be enslaved. It simply cannot happen without them choosing it, there are always escapes.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#79 - 2013-02-02 20:40:25 UTC
Marrying your own slave eh?

Well, you're a step above those people that have drug fuelled orgies with slaves anyway.

Or the ones that coat themselves in sauce and have their slaver hounds lick them.

I hear that's all the rage in some sections of Imperial society.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Kazzzi
Heathen Legion
Iron Men of the Hood
#80 - 2013-02-02 23:56:15 UTC
Valerie Valate wrote:

Or the ones that coat themselves in sauce....


Hey now. The guy needs marriage advice, not honeymoon advice Blink