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Skill Discussions

 
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make a skill plex

Author
Medivineone
x-suicide-squad-x
#1 - 2013-02-01 14:19:24 UTC
when will ccp make a skill plex to take time off training? gratz on 10 :)
Laurinius
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-02-01 14:40:57 UTC
They already have:
1) Buy many plexes
2) Sell plexes for isk
3) Buy a character that has the skills you want
Morwraith
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-02-01 16:51:20 UTC
I'm actually a big fan of this and I'll try and explain why and aslo why I feel that a lot of the arguements against are foolish.

Many people, like the above poster, like to say that you can just buy a character off the bazaar that has the skills you want however I and other people I've spoken to are not interested in buying someone elses character. Since there is no way to change the name of a character there is no way to make that character "yours". Some people enjoy mmos for the ability to custom create an avatar that we feel represents ourself or our personality. For instance this character name has been my gaming handle for more than 10 years across many games and dating back to a Tolkien based MUD. Obviously there is some attachment. However it has also bothered me that eve has no system in place that allows newer players to "catch up" with the veterans.

Now I'm not saying that veterans shouldn't have an advantage having been playing for so long however there should be some way for newer players to close the gap; even if it is at a considerable cost to that player. Additonally they could always have a dimishing system where plex will only allow you to advance your character so far perhaps having reduced effect as players approach a certain threshold. No doubt some people will say that skills have to be earned however with the implimentation of the character bazaar puts caput to that.

Something else worth considering is that this would incease the demand for plex which should mean increased revenue for ccp which I'd like to think could be funneled into more developers, faster content development, in general a benefit for cpp and all players.
GreenSeed
#4 - 2013-02-01 17:10:40 UTC
Morwraith wrote:
I'm actually a big fan of this and I'll try and explain why and aslo why I feel that a lot of the arguements against are foolish.

Many people, like the above poster, like to say that you can just buy a character off the bazaar that has the skills you want however I and other people I've spoken to are not interested in buying someone elses character. Since there is no way to change the name of a character there is no way to make that character "yours". Some people enjoy mmos for the ability to custom create an avatar that we feel represents ourself or our personality. For instance this character name has been my gaming handle for more than 10 years across many games and dating back to a Tolkien based MUD. Obviously there is some attachment. However it has also bothered me that eve has no system in place that allows newer players to "catch up" with the veterans.

Now I'm not saying that veterans shouldn't have an advantage having been playing for so long however there should be some way for newer players to close the gap; even if it is at a considerable cost to that player. Additonally they could always have a dimishing system where plex will only allow you to advance your character so far perhaps having reduced effect as players approach a certain threshold. No doubt some people will say that skills have to be earned however with the implimentation of the character bazaar puts caput to that.

Something else worth considering is that this would incease the demand for plex which should mean increased revenue for ccp which I'd like to think could be funneled into more developers, faster content development, in general a benefit for cpp and all players.



TL;DR


plex for SP is Pay2Win.

/thread
Rat Farmer
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-02-01 17:19:00 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
Morwraith wrote:
I'm actually a big fan of this and I'll try and explain why and aslo why I feel that a lot of the arguements against are foolish.

Many people, like the above poster, like to say that you can just buy a character off the bazaar that has the skills you want however I and other people I've spoken to are not interested in buying someone elses character. Since there is no way to change the name of a character there is no way to make that character "yours". Some people enjoy mmos for the ability to custom create an avatar that we feel represents ourself or our personality. For instance this character name has been my gaming handle for more than 10 years across many games and dating back to a Tolkien based MUD. Obviously there is some attachment. However it has also bothered me that eve has no system in place that allows newer players to "catch up" with the veterans.

Now I'm not saying that veterans shouldn't have an advantage having been playing for so long however there should be some way for newer players to close the gap; even if it is at a considerable cost to that player. Additonally they could always have a dimishing system where plex will only allow you to advance your character so far perhaps having reduced effect as players approach a certain threshold. No doubt some people will say that skills have to be earned however with the implimentation of the character bazaar puts caput to that.

Something else worth considering is that this would incease the demand for plex which should mean increased revenue for ccp which I'd like to think could be funneled into more developers, faster content development, in general a benefit for cpp and all players.



TL;DR


plex for SP is Pay2Win.

/thread


Why would you bother commenting on something if it's "too long and you didn't read" it? People crack me up!
GreenSeed
#6 - 2013-02-01 17:22:22 UTC  |  Edited by: GreenSeed
because regardless of the argument, its moot. plex for SP is pay2win, want to know the closest moment eve got to dying? the moment CCP suggested they might go in that direction.

it wont happen, you can still go and buy a character as suggested.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-02-01 17:24:05 UTC
Morwraith wrote:

stuff


In that case train your character with the skills you want to have and be patient like everyone else who has ever played EVE. If you really really want more SP right now then you need to pick between that and your current toon's name and appearance.

Like you I am rather attached to my toon's name and I know that there are plenty of other characters out there that I will never catch up to SP wise. But despite my subscription not being active for about 2.5 years of my character's existence I can effectively compete with people who have more SP than I do in a surprising number of ships and situations.

And you can catch up. Its called specialization. There are only so many skills that you can train to make your Thorax, Slasher, Abaddon, or Drake more effective. Once you have them all trained to 5 you are equal to or better than any veteran in that ship.

In the end all time gives you is more versatility. And that is the one and only real advantage that older characters have.
Sunji Shaishi
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-02-01 17:25:44 UTC
No.
No.
No.
No.

This clear enough? :D
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#9 - 2013-02-01 17:56:35 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
because regardless of the argument, its moot. plex for SP is pay2win, want to know the closest moment eve got to dying? the moment CCP suggested they might go in that direction.

it wont happen, you can still go and buy a character as suggested.


This. If all you have to do is pump actual currency into the game to get everything you want, the game will have already died.
Myrissa Kistel
Planetary Logistics
#10 - 2013-02-01 18:05:32 UTC
Catch up to what?
A character with 100 million skill point sitting in a frig can be just as effective as a 10 million character in the same thing. That 100 million skill point character only real advantage is being able to go from 1 frig to another.

I've also had some friends join saying they would be useless compared to a high skill point character. I explained to him, we can make you a tackler, it is your job to hold the target down. Without you this will impossible. You are actually the most important person in this group. An hour or so later after running the tutorial to get used to the menus, train up a few fast skills we had him in frig. We roamed around, he tackled, we all blew up it was great.

This is the only MMO I know of that can have a newbie character join a veteran and be useful, and intergral to the group. There are no gimmicks of bumping him to my level or me downgrading to his level to help him do quests, I mean honest to goodness usefulness.

Sure he might have not the max ranges on the guns, or be able to fit T2 stuff but he will be able to fly with me, as an equal in the group. Try doing that on any other MMO after logging on and running through its tutorial.


So no, skill points are done right in Eve.
Morwraith
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-02-02 11:31:45 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
because regardless of the argument, its moot. plex for SP is pay2win, want to know the closest moment eve got to dying? the moment CCP suggested they might go in that direction.

it wont happen, you can still go and buy a character as suggested.


Please explain how paying to increase a character's skills or skill training speed is end of the eve universe game breaking but paying for a preskilled character isn't. You throw around the term pay2win like like it doesn't already exist...I hears they implimented this thing called plex.

As far as having to just wait like everyone else... I get that arguement but just because previous players had to walk uphill both ways in the snow barefoot doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to as well. If properly implimented a system could just as easily benefit older players as well. Of course ccp could just allow name changes and make this easier.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2013-02-02 15:34:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Morwraith wrote:
Please explain how paying to increase a character's skills or skill training speed is end of the eve universe game breaking but paying for a preskilled character isn't. You throw around the term pay2win like like it doesn't already exist...I hears they implimented this thing called plex.


See you can buy all the skills you want on day one. Just buy a pile of Plex, sell them on the market, and buy a toon with a zillion SP. Easy. In fact if you don't sell your current toon you can even keep your name. Sure you can't have both the name and the SP, but then again Eve is all about choices. Your favorite name or piles of SP, pick one. That's why its not broken, cause its not free. Now you would think that such a tiny cost in addition to the cost of the Plex wouldn't put off anyone, but apparently it does. So I guess its rather balanced.

Morwraith wrote:
As far as having to just wait like everyone else... I get that arguement but just because previous players had to walk uphill both ways in the snow barefoot doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to as well. If properly implimented a system could just as easily benefit older players as well. Of course ccp could just allow name changes and make this easier.


If this idea of advancing at about the same pace as everyone else really bothers you then perhaps Eve is not the game for you. I hear that you can get to max level in WoW pretty fast with the help of a few friends. If so, can I have your stuff?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-02-03 00:49:15 UTC
hell no

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#14 - 2013-02-03 06:43:41 UTC
Never.

yes

Uncle Gagarin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-02-03 09:21:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Uncle Gagarin
Morwraith wrote:

Please explain how paying to increase a character's skills or skill training speed is end of the eve universe game breaking but paying for a preskilled character isn't. You throw around the term pay2win like like it doesn't already exist...I hears they implimented this thing called plex.


Easy.
Your goal is to get your char a little boosted as it seems to you expensive.
So let say you would like to get 2 skillboosts 1mln SP each for 2 PLEXes because it is defined by your financial abilities.
You will got a little boosted char saving relatively little time and gaining not so much overall.

Imagine now a character which already has 100mln SP and 100bln ISK he dont know what to do.
He will boost himselfs in no time to 200mln SP just by emptying his wallet.

But that's not end.

Imagine characters with ability to earn equivalent of 1 PLEX per day or even 2 PLEXes per day if they will spend just a bit more time.
Our 200mln SP guy is one of them.
Such a char is gaining 1 or 2 mln SP every day. In a month he makes char boost by 30-60millions. It means he will pay for jumping several years of skilling.

Such boosts will not be single. They will be massive. But wait, you aren't capable of earning 1 PLEX a day, aren't you ?
Same about a lot of others new players or casual players.
They will became food for 500mln SP megachars.

Welcome in Slaveworld Online.
They paid to be your lords.
Velarra
#16 - 2013-02-03 15:37:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Velarra
I can't say i'm particularly in favor of this idea, however more from a devil's advocate pov - to those who object to this:

What is more important ?

The Human Player game-skill, will, social connections & networking, time availability etc. -The intangibles that make an experienced player deadly behind the controls of a 50k sp char.

OR - a character's SP total ?

Edit:

My personal objections to the proposed idea would quite honestly be tied to the plex market & painfully skyrocketing plex values this would trigger. From any other pov, - what are we saying to new players about the value of their very low SP.. vs. player skill they can develop personally while flying with more experienced players who can teach them eve mechanics & tactics?
Orlacc
#17 - 2013-02-03 20:58:48 UTC
Wish they made a smart Plex...

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

KiwiMatt
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-02-04 07:55:39 UTC
"As far as having to just wait like everyone else... I get that arguement but just because previous players had to walk uphill both ways in the snow barefoot doesn't mean everyone else should be forced to as well. If properly implimented a system could just as easily benefit older players as well. Of course ccp could just allow name changes and make this easier."
________________________________________________________________________________________


I get your point... if I was about to start playing eve right now and was told players were about 10 years ahead of me and i could never catch up, I simply would not subscribe.

Points about specilization, being effective at one thing after a very short time etc are all very well... but I would still have a niggling feeling that things wern't fair.

I normally jump on for 3-5 hours a week, and along the way slowly ammassed 160m+ sp's... I would have no problem with a system whereby while you are online, skill training happens 25% faster, then back to normal when you log off.

cheers
Matt


Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2013-02-04 14:26:24 UTC
KiwiMatt wrote:
... I would have no problem with a system whereby while you are online, skill training happens 25% faster, then back to normal when you log off.

cheers
Matt


And then everyone would just stay logged on AFK 23/7 and nothing would really change at all.
Uncle Gagarin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-02-04 16:46:39 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:

And then everyone would just stay logged on AFK 23/7 and nothing would really change at all.


Are you sure about that ?
What about increased servers load to keep data of 500000 players online instead of 50000 ? :>

Regarding "someone has 10 years and I will not subscribe" - you are overreacting here.
There are not so many such skilled ppl online, most of them gone long time ago.
Also, most of ppl don't keep account paid for several years so as a result from 10 year char
you will get 2year paid one.
Still difference but not so huge.
Also please consider - EvE is a type of game where 1 month old char can do a lot if he plays
in a group ...

Cheers,
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