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What's all this Gameplay A Vs Gameplay B crap

Author
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-02-01 14:49:07 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:
Seems no matter what you do someone is passionately against you, for instance nullsec vs highsec players.

It's a stupid sort of argument imagined by carebears; it doesn't really exist. No one is "passionately against you", but they may have valid reasons to propose a nerf to features you use (for instance, a belief that high-sec is way too good for the risks you encounter there.)


Bad Karl, I had to highlight an excellent post because you refused to do so, You should also use all caps, although that won't make any difference because the paranoid "they are out to get me types" won't listen to the truth no matter how you say it Lol.

But seriously, what you wrote is the gospel truth. People (like the OP) cling to such ideas because it's a defense mechanism against painful results (like the pain of being wrong lol). It's easier to think the other guy is bad/stupid/evil or has an agenda than it is to actually try to understand where they are coming from.

It's very irritating, especially when you explain to these nimrods exactly what the motivation for an idea is, only to be met with "nah, i just think you don't like my playstyle". I swear i wanna reach through the internets and choke a fool when they say that Twisted


It seems you are one of these people, while I have you here please let me know what goes through your mind as you get these emotional feelings?? I am deeply curious! Maybe I could enjoy the game more if I was more like you? You said you wish you could reach through the internets and choke people like us? What illicit's such emotion? I can honestly say that no one on the internet has made me want to do that! LOL!

Maybe it's just the way I was brought up but I was taught not to judge people. You seem to judge but at the same time get a deeper...SOMETHING that may make this game a better experience?

I await your response.

Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#22 - 2013-02-01 14:49:18 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
You should also use all caps

I only use cruise control on my morning commute.

Jenn aSide wrote:
It's very irritating, especially when you explain to these nimrods exactly what the motivation for an idea is, only to be met with "nah, i just think you don't like my playstyle".

"YOU DONT LIKE MY PLAYSTYLE" is an obvious troll meant to shut down and redirect an argument.

Jenn aSide wrote:
I swear i wanna reach through the internets and choke a fool when they say that Twisted

Confirming that I sometimes want to "choke a fool" too.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2013-02-01 14:50:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:
Seems no matter what you do someone is passionately against you, for instance nullsec vs highsec players.


That's part of that "cold harsh universe" from Eve ads. And as in all ads that too is only half true at best. At the end of a day we all just wanna hug and hot cocoa.

I didn't know that by "cold harsh universe" EVE ads meant "verbal duels on a level of a bunch of quarrelsome kindergarteners".
Good thing that most of this cr*p stays on forum.

Oh, and Kane wins the thread.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-02-01 14:57:52 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
Nothing wrong with playing however you want to play just as long as you don't scream and shout for game breaking mechanic changes to facilitate your play style.

Say, you wanted to mine in 0.0 in a cruiser and not get hassled by NPC or other players.

Getting CCP to change the game to facilitate this would be oh so very wrong.

Play how you want, just don't cry when you do things badly and lose.



Or, the more common whine on the threads, you don't like that when you are hunting in low or null (or in a high sec war) that people safe up as soon as you appear in local. You come on the boards demanding the removal of local so that you can more easily kill people.. not realizing that the removal of local would mean that no one ever undocks in a non-PVP fleet in a dangerous situation.

People that want to kill easy targets that can't fight back, wardec a mining corp. But, no one from that mining corp ever loggs in or undocks during the war. So, you extend the war figuring that eventually they will get bored and come out. But instead, as soon as the war goes into a second week, and the miners drop out of corp into NPC corp, then go mining when you can't wardec them. So, they come on the boards demanding the removal of the NPC corps so that anyone can be wardeced at any time. Then they'll have to undock while at war, right? Nope. They will just quit playing this game.

Or, they see people making almost as much ISK running L4 missions in high sec as can be made in null ratting (except in a carrier that can make 2-3x what a high sec L4 runner can make). They demand all those L4s be moved to low sec where it would be easy pickings to gank those fat juicy PVE ships. All that would happen is that the carebear mission runners would become miners, or quit the game.

LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-02-01 15:01:29 UTC
Hir Miriel wrote:
That polarity exists in the real world too.

Partly I think it's media training.

Thoughtful media is boring media.

Divisive, emotional media is more fun, or as marketers call it, engaging.



If I read a thread that I don't have strong feelings about.. like say... wondering how much it would cost to go to fanfest. I have no interest in attending fanfest, so I'm highly unlikely to even read, let alone post in that thread. It soon falls off page 1, and then no one sees it anymore.

However, if there is a post about removing CONCORD or eliminating NPC corps... well, then I'm going to be interested, and I'm HIGHLY likely to post in that thread.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2013-02-01 15:08:38 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

It's easier to think the other guy is bad/stupid/evil or has an agenda than it is to actually try to understand where they are coming from.

It's very irritating, especially when you explain to these nimrods exactly what the motivation for an idea is, only to be met with "nah, i just think you don't like my playstyle". I swear i wanna reach through the internets and choke a fool when they say that Twisted



Motivation for the rule change. To make EVE a colder and harsher place for all.

Ummm... Why do you want all the carebears to quit playing?

Why can there not be a game that has different areas of space, with different rules, that accommodate different play styles?

If you want to PVP, there are places for that. If you want a high probability you won't be messed with too much, there is an area for that. What is wrong with that?
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#27 - 2013-02-01 15:19:36 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Ummm... Why do you want all the carebears to quit playing?

Because they **** up the forums with their "GIEF US TRAMMUL IN EVE!" threads.

LHA Tarawa wrote:
If you want to PVP, there are places for that.

Nowhere in EVE is safe from PVP. I'm sure you read the CSM minutes, remember all that talk of making sure that, at the very least, suicide ganking doesn't get nerfed too hard? There's a reason for that. EVE is a PVP game through and through. If you don't want PVP, you should stop playing EVE.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#28 - 2013-02-01 15:41:24 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Sure.

And I think most people understand that.

What many people don't seem to understand is that while EVE is meant to accommodate all playstyles, but not in isoltation. That means that "using the actions within the scope of the game mechanics to mess with guys who do x*" is a perfectly valid playstyle (this can also go recursive by messing with the people who mess with the people who do x, then Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo).

So, "mining without being bothered or interrupted" might be a goal (unlikely to be achieved, but v0v), but it cannot be a supported "playstyle," the way "mining" can be**.


* for all x within the scope of the game mechanics except x = "being a newbie"
**Actually, it can be. The SISI server rules prohibit non-consensual PvP of all forms.



This is a good post.

Take industry.

Null sec industry is totally rubbish at the moment, so what do you do?

Do you keep it worse then high sec but make it better then it is now? Well that makes no sense as it wont change anything, it will still be marginalised and people will continue to import from high sec. Nothing changes and null sec is unhappy.

Do you make it equal to high sec? Well this seems OK in theory but then you have the problem of low end minerals not really existing in Null Sec, which means you need to jump in a lot of raw materials, in which case you might as well import it all. Nothing changes and null sec is unhappy.

Do you make it better than high sec? Well this would certainly encourage industry in null, perhaps even convince some people to, dare I say it, leave high sec. The advantages in building in null offset the lack of minerals and boost industry, however High Sec players are essentially nerfed (because it's all relative). High sec players are unhappy.

Likewise you have gankers and carebears.

Make high sec safer? Care bears happy, gankers unhappy.

Make high sec more dangerous? Gankers happy, carebears unhappy.

EVE is interdependent on every part of the game,pulling part of that web has a ripple effect everywhere else. Most null players grasp this, most High Sec players don't. Which is why you get high sec players (probably like you) not understanding why it appears that Null Sec keeps saying to nerf high sec. It's not because there's any overwhelming animosity, it's because certain features of high sec are having an extremely detrimental effect on null sec gameplay.

You might not care about null sec players but it's null sec players who make the headlines and helped shape EVE to be what it is, not high sec carebears.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#29 - 2013-02-01 15:47:13 UTC
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen
It seems you are one of these people, while I have you here please let me know what goes through your mind as you get these emotional feelings?? I am deeply curious! Maybe I could enjoy the game more if I was more like you? You said you wish you could reach through the internets and choke people like us? [/quote wrote:
]

You should read what I wrote (which you did not).

The "people i'd like to choke through the internets" are the people who somehow believe people like me are lying when we tell them why we have a certain belief. Here, that usually means someone will say something stupid like "you just don't like my playstyle".

So yes, Baron, if we have a discussion about something and I TELL you why I think a certain way, and you say" nah, you just don't like my playstyle" (basically calling me a liar) , do expect the hand of righteous indignation to come through your screen.


Quote:

What illicit's such emotion? I can honestly say that no one on the internet has made me want to do that! LOL!


That only means you are A. new to the internet of B. a liar.

[quote]
Maybe it's just the way I was brought up but I was taught not to judge people. You seem to judge but at the same time get a deeper...SOMETHING that may make this game a better experience?

I await your response.



Anyone who says they don't judge is equally lying. People make judgement calls about people everyday, or do you pull over and let every homeless looking person with their thumb out ride in your car and sleep in your house while you are away?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#30 - 2013-02-01 15:51:19 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

It's easier to think the other guy is bad/stupid/evil or has an agenda than it is to actually try to understand where they are coming from.

It's very irritating, especially when you explain to these nimrods exactly what the motivation for an idea is, only to be met with "nah, i just think you don't like my playstyle". I swear i wanna reach through the internets and choke a fool when they say that Twisted



Motivation for the rule change. To make EVE a colder and harsher place for all.

Ummm... Why do you want all the carebears to quit playing?

Why can there not be a game that has different areas of space, with different rules, that accommodate different play styles?

If you want to PVP, there are places for that. If you want a high probability you won't be messed with too much, there is an area for that. What is wrong with that?


Part of your problem (and you probably have many) is an extremist personality. You tend to think in extreme cases which is why you are constantly wrong.

How many times do i have to tell you I'm not much of a pvp player and don't care how or where other people play. I care about the game I play, and like it for what it is, and resist changes that would dilute its exclusivity and greatness.

Buit you never HEAR anything I or anyone else says, you just plant your preconceived notions over everything we say, then pretend WE are the problem.

What you believe is simply wrong Tarawa, and I'm sorry you can't see that. But you and your type are the problem, the reason why there is an "us vs them".


Baron Dmitri Harkonnen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-02-01 16:19:23 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


You should read what I wrote (which you did not).

The "people i'd like to choke through the internets" are the people who somehow believe people like me are lying when we tell them why we have a certain belief. Here, that usually means someone will say something stupid like "you just don't like my playstyle".

So yes, Baron, if we have a discussion about something and I TELL you why I think a certain way, and you say" nah, you just don't like my playstyle" (basically calling me a liar) , do expect the hand of righteous indignation to come through your screen.



You seem to be putting words in my mouth.

I am curious as to why people are condescending to players that play EVE differently to themselves.

I have not been on the receiving or giving side to this argument in any sort of way, it's just an attitude I witnessed in great amounts on forums and in-game.

Personally I don't care if you mine / PvP / mission / wormhole / station trade etc.

I just don't understand why anyone would have an issue (which they apparently do) with how they play.

You just seemed to get rather emotional over these questions and I am greatly curious as to why, and in great detail too.

It's a personal hobby of mine to understand how a mind different to mine works. That is all.
Leetha Layne
#32 - 2013-02-01 16:27:52 UTC
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:
Seems no matter what you do someone is passionately against you, for instance nullsec vs highsec players.

Don't people realise that EVE is meant to accommodate different playstyles?

This is pre-school all over again T_T



That is the forums. You realize that statistically, only about 1% of the game population posts?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#33 - 2013-02-01 16:28:14 UTC
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


You should read what I wrote (which you did not).

The "people i'd like to choke through the internets" are the people who somehow believe people like me are lying when we tell them why we have a certain belief. Here, that usually means someone will say something stupid like "you just don't like my playstyle".

So yes, Baron, if we have a discussion about something and I TELL you why I think a certain way, and you say" nah, you just don't like my playstyle" (basically calling me a liar) , do expect the hand of righteous indignation to come through your screen.



You seem to be putting words in my mouth.

I am curious as to why people are condescending to players that play EVE differently to themselves.

I have not been on the receiving or giving side to this argument in any sort of way, it's just an attitude I witnessed in great amounts on forums and in-game.

Personally I don't care if you mine / PvP / mission / wormhole / station trade etc.

I just don't understand why anyone would have an issue (which they apparently do) with how they play.

You just seemed to get rather emotional over these questions and I am greatly curious as to why, and in great detail too.

It's a personal hobby of mine to understand how a mind different to mine works. That is all.


So what about what I'm writing is hard to understand?
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#34 - 2013-02-01 16:28:23 UTC
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:
I just don't understand why anyone would have an issue (which they apparently do) with how they play.

You just seemed to get rather emotional over these questions and I am greatly curious as to why, and in great detail too.

It's a personal hobby of mine to understand how a mind different to mine works. That is all.

These sorts of trolls are like watching a trainwreck in slow motion. 0/10

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

Kalle Demos
Ironic Corp Name
#35 - 2013-02-01 16:33:16 UTC
Nullsec are not against highsec, if anything Nullsec wants to become highsec by making 0.0 risk free and NAP'ing everything that undocks directly or through neutral with NIP benefits
Commander Spurty
#36 - 2013-02-01 16:37:36 UTC
Heaven help you if you suggest a change that doesn't appease the loudmouth louts.

Fortunately, I enjoy envisioning the veins on their foreheads buckling at the stress as they mash their next sentence in the 'POST' area.

Just have fun, ignore the minkeys

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP

Voi Lutois
Space Men
#37 - 2013-02-01 16:44:47 UTC
I am very upset by this. Let me play how I wish to play, do not judge. I am meat like you, we all are one. Show respect to fellow man.
Ginger Barbarella
#38 - 2013-02-01 16:50:15 UTC
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:
Seems no matter what you do someone is passionately against you, for instance nullsec vs highsec players.

Don't people realise that EVE is meant to accommodate different playstyles?

This is pre-school all over again T_T



There's only one play style: Do It My Way Or You're Wrong!!

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Kim Dested
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-02-01 17:04:19 UTC
Here's my $0.02. There are such heated opinions on game mechanics because players HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO.
IMO, EVE is failing at at least four things:

1) Storytelling. It's fine to be a sandbox, but your game can't ONLY be a sandbox where you are depending on players alone to create the story. Let's take Incursions for example. What seemed like a "sound all horns, the enemy is at the gates!" part of the game now just seems like yet another endless grind. So the Sansha are invading ... how many people in EVE could tell you which side is winning? Or if there is an "endgame"? Or why they should care.
EVE needs to do better to create story-arcs, and things that will pit players against an unknown entity vs. each other. Kind of like my kids - you tell them to turn off the TV, or don't give them things to do, they will start beating each other up. EVERYBODY is unhappy. You come up with a cool activity for both to be busy with, or just separate them, where they each do their own thing, and again, EVERYBODY is happy.

2) Providing enough people with the feeling that they're the hero. I'm no psychologist, but I imagine that few people like to engage in an activity where they feel like they are the victim, or can be at any moment. That's just masochism. We play games to feel like winners, to feel like we matter, and to build up to better things, bigger things, and to be able to do more with them. Instead, we get an environment where the losses can be (and usually are) permanent, massive, senseless, and inescapable (ganked ships by bored players, getting podded and PERMANENTLY losing SP's that you can't easily replace). Too many things here are designed to grind you down, not lift you up.

3) Banding people together. For an MMO, where the whole point is to play with other people, mechanics of betrayal, theft, bullying, and griefing are not just allowed, they are actually promoted. I've come to a conclusion that I can't trust anybody in the game with a single ISK. Ever. So the mechanisms that allow corps, alliances, etc, are just a moot point to me. I really may as well be playing X3 when it comes out for all the interacting with others I do.

4) Guiding its users' behavior. Really, there are too many a-holes in this game who toss around words like carebears and tears. Who write litanies with no purpose other than to make a person feel worse. In game chat, in these forums, whatever. Who enjoy other people's distress. How many new users do you think you're going to get when the only reponses to new folks losing their favorite new toy are "suck it up," "you've learned your lesson," and "are those tears? are you crying?". Yeah, that's inviting.
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-02-01 17:10:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Baron Dmitri Harkonnen
Jenn aSide wrote:

So what about what I'm writing is hard to understand?

I can only guess that you are so far from what I am trying to ask it is going over your head or you're just here for an argument.

In any case let's just leave it be :)

Karl Hobb wrote:


These sorts of trolls are like watching a trainwreck in slow motion. 0/10

Try harder.

Some interesting posts though.

More thoughts please!
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