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THE SOLUTION to the Local Argument has been found!!
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#41 - 2013-02-01 13:43:12 UTC
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Why all these convoluted ideas?

Just remove local, and improve D-Scan so that...


How about we improve DSCAN first?

Sorry to quibble, but it's kind of important

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Zol Interbottom
Blimp Requisition Services
#42 - 2013-02-01 13:44:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Zol Interbottom
Andski wrote:
Zol Interbottom wrote:
no local in WH space, oh wait badly fitted noobs dont fly in WH space


If only NPCs in 0.0 were designed in a way that one could use omni-resist tanks rather than focusing on one or two types of damage.

I'm sure you're fine with us asking for the ability to drop huge subcap fleets, supercaps and titans right into your little wormholes though.


if you guys could actually fly things without a titan/supercap hotdrop you might have actually been IN a WH by now enjoying the lack of local

"If you're quitting for the 3rd time you clearly ain't quitting" - Chribba
Meritsa
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#43 - 2013-02-01 13:45:34 UTC
All the local chats should be removed and something like a deep space radio receiver implanted to replace it. This system would require people to send "radio" messages and it would cost a bit and everyone could choose what to receive, or nothing at all.

I think that it takes some of the fun away when you can know things outside your known areas. Also with these changes make scanning more important and actually take some work to find people from your local space.

:P
Zol Interbottom
Blimp Requisition Services
#44 - 2013-02-01 13:48:47 UTC
also i didnt mean that you guys are badly fitted noobs :) just your unfortuent pray to the 50 stealthbonber dogpile

"If you're quitting for the 3rd time you clearly ain't quitting" - Chribba
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#45 - 2013-02-01 13:50:50 UTC
Zol Interbottom wrote:
also i didnt mean that you guys are badly fitted noobs :) just your unfortuent pray to the 50 stealthbonber dogpile


"Local spatial effects are making your posts terrible"

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Zol Interbottom
Blimp Requisition Services
#46 - 2013-02-01 13:56:30 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Zol Interbottom wrote:
also i didnt mean that you guys are badly fitted noobs :) just your unfortuent pray to the 50 stealthbonber dogpile


"Local spatial effects are making your posts terrible"


It's called an iPod touch

"If you're quitting for the 3rd time you clearly ain't quitting" - Chribba
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#47 - 2013-02-01 14:18:29 UTC
Why not add Warp to 0 and autopilot options to a person in chat? And of course little icons linking the current ship with fit. Local as an intel tool could still be improved.

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.
Archa4 Badasaz
Vangazhi
#48 - 2013-02-01 14:28:11 UTC
I still think best solution - make local work like in other chats:
If you type something - you become visible in the list, and you can see the number of people in the chat... Why not do this for local?
Stonecrusher Mortlock
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2013-02-01 15:42:15 UTC
Andski wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
You do realize that aside from no local, there is other major differences between unknown and known space


Right, remember the last time you opened the map, looked for NPC kills and made your way into a wormhole simply by following the game's suggested route? And proceeded to light a cyno inside that wormhole to jump in supers or a gang waiting on a titan/blops?

Or do you consider force projection (which you love complaining about), static routes and supers as "minor" differences?

'lol'



so nurf the map, stop being lazy and requiring ALL of your intel be handed to you by ccp.



realy the map giving free intel and local chat giving free intel, is what keeps null dull, you cant take a small group into null and live with out every one knowing your in there space.



HOW do you stop people from living in your space? You check the map for activity you have not approved, then go check local, then bring in the blob.

now tell, me how hard would it be to remove all these people out of your unused sysems with out all the free intel given to you by the map and local?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-02-01 16:04:38 UTC
Stonecrusher Mortlock wrote:
so nurf the map, stop being lazy and requiring ALL of your intel be handed to you by ccp.



realy the map giving free intel and local chat giving free intel, is what keeps null dull, you cant take a small group into null and live with out every one knowing your in there space.



HOW do you stop people from living in your space? You check the map for activity you have not approved, then go check local, then bring in the blob.

now tell, me how hard would it be to remove all these people out of your unused sysems with out all the free intel given to you by the map and local?


i point out several differences between wormholes and k-space 0.0 and you address a fairly minor point

npc alts, heh

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#51 - 2013-02-01 16:05:38 UTC
fyi it's not hard to see where people rat, even without NPC kills on the map

with or without sov data, you already know where everyone lives, so you can just go to low truesec systems in active regions and hunt there

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Mary Won-Na
Doomheim
#52 - 2013-02-01 17:49:34 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
here marlona is a graph of what happens if your 'remove local' idea happens

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dggMmf2G15Y/UB853kxsYtI/AAAAAAAACTg/ZZjBBqtZ09U/s1600/Pop-vs-Kills-Jan-2012.jpg

You do realize that aside from no local, there is other major differences between unknown and known space right? If no local would destroy PvP like many of you keep proclaiming with the fear fallacy; then that graph would show ship percentage being close to zero percent.


The ratio of kills per null inhabitant is around 3 kills per account. The one for wormholes is 1:1. That is much closer to zero than nullsec, which means fewer kills per person. I like getting lots of kills thank you. CCP likes lots of kills too because it drives the economy. Local stays.

In fact - ADD LOCAL TO WORMHOLES! Stop those lazy care-bears from avoiding being killed!


It's far safer to carebear it up in null than it is in WHs. People in WHs get zero warning if they're not on top of their scans. Nullbears get warned 10 jumps in advance.
Ginger Barbarella
#53 - 2013-02-01 17:52:33 UTC
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
It's a revolutionary and emergent idea, but...bear with me...how about removing local?


Set a flag in code, or add a bunch of new, crap code into the codebase???? Hmmm... Which is CCP standard operating procedure?

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2013-02-01 20:09:28 UTC
Mary Won-Na wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
here marlona is a graph of what happens if your 'remove local' idea happens

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dggMmf2G15Y/UB853kxsYtI/AAAAAAAACTg/ZZjBBqtZ09U/s1600/Pop-vs-Kills-Jan-2012.jpg

You do realize that aside from no local, there is other major differences between unknown and known space right? If no local would destroy PvP like many of you keep proclaiming with the fear fallacy; then that graph would show ship percentage being close to zero percent.


The ratio of kills per null inhabitant is around 3 kills per account. The one for wormholes is 1:1. That is much closer to zero than nullsec, which means fewer kills per person. I like getting lots of kills thank you. CCP likes lots of kills too because it drives the economy. Local stays.

In fact - ADD LOCAL TO WORMHOLES! Stop those lazy care-bears from avoiding being killed!


It's far safer to carebear it up in null than it is in WHs. People in WHs get zero warning if they're not on top of their scans. Nullbears get warned 10 jumps in advance.



Wow. It still amazes me when a pubbie gets something wrong, even when they are quoting a graphic from CCP and text explaining it.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#55 - 2013-02-01 20:16:15 UTC
Mary Won-Na wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
here marlona is a graph of what happens if your 'remove local' idea happens

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dggMmf2G15Y/UB853kxsYtI/AAAAAAAACTg/ZZjBBqtZ09U/s1600/Pop-vs-Kills-Jan-2012.jpg

You do realize that aside from no local, there is other major differences between unknown and known space right? If no local would destroy PvP like many of you keep proclaiming with the fear fallacy; then that graph would show ship percentage being close to zero percent.


The ratio of kills per null inhabitant is around 3 kills per account. The one for wormholes is 1:1. That is much closer to zero than nullsec, which means fewer kills per person. I like getting lots of kills thank you. CCP likes lots of kills too because it drives the economy. Local stays.

In fact - ADD LOCAL TO WORMHOLES! Stop those lazy care-bears from avoiding being killed!


It's far safer to carebear it up in null than it is in WHs. People in WHs get zero warning if they're not on top of their scans. Nullbears get warned 10 jumps in advance.


lol

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Generals4
#56 - 2013-02-01 20:27:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Generals4
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:


Wow. It still amazes me when a pubbie gets something wrong, even when they are quoting a graphic from CCP and text explaining it.


It still amazes me when a goon doesn't understand statistics and thinks correlation = causation. On top of that the logic used would also prove that local reduces pvp because high sec has less pvp as wh's. Now off course, most people wouldn't limit their analysis to just two factors (pvp per person and local/no local) but that would be too much to ask from people who think repeating the word "pubbie" is cool.

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
Verfanny
Brave Empire Inc.
Brave United
#57 - 2013-02-01 20:35:10 UTC
So right now on the front page we have a solution about the NPC corp, which according to OP should be simple but isn't and a 'once and for all' solution for the problem of Local chat which isn't really a solution.

Bummer :(
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2013-02-01 20:38:34 UTC
Generals4 wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:


Wow. It still amazes me when a pubbie gets something wrong, even when they are quoting a graphic from CCP and text explaining it.


It still amazes me when a goon doesn't understand statistics and thinks correlation = causation. On top of that the logic used would also prove that local reduces pvp because high sec has less pvp as wh's. Now off course, most people wouldn't limit their analysis to just two factors (pvp per person and local/no local) but that would be too much to ask from people who think repeating the word "pubbie" is cool.



No. Your logic is dumb, because lowsec has local and an even higher ratio of kills:population.
Generals4
#59 - 2013-02-01 20:40:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Generals4
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Generals4 wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:


Wow. It still amazes me when a pubbie gets something wrong, even when they are quoting a graphic from CCP and text explaining it.


It still amazes me when a goon doesn't understand statistics and thinks correlation = causation. On top of that the logic used would also prove that local reduces pvp because high sec has less pvp as wh's. Now off course, most people wouldn't limit their analysis to just two factors (pvp per person and local/no local) but that would be too much to ask from people who think repeating the word "pubbie" is cool.



No. Your logic is dumb, because lowsec has local and an even higher ratio of kills:population.


But that was the logic you and your mate used. I was merely pointing out how stupid it was by showing a contradiction in the results acquired by following the logic. But I am happy you agree with me the logic you two used is dumb.

But if you need some further proof the logic is dumb:

No Local space: 5.86% of kills and 5.51% of the population
Local Space: 84.24% of kills and 84.49% of the population.
Look at that local space has less pvp per capita!

Obviously limiting your anlysis to only these two factors to determine whether local helps or deters pvp is dumb.

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#60 - 2013-02-01 20:55:06 UTC
Mary Won-Na wrote:
It's far safer to carebear it up in null than it is in WHs. People in WHs get zero warning if they're not on top of their scans. Nullbears get warned 10 jumps in advance.


They only get warned 10 jumps in advance if someone 10 jumps away spots the gang in local and reports it in an intel channel, i.e. active vigilance. With the hostile traffic in any given region, if you dock up because some neutrals are 10 jumps away, well, you're not going to get much done.

If people in wormholes get zero warning if they're not on top of their scans, then ~*~*~nullbears~*~*~ get zero warning if they're not actively watching local or intel channels. See how that works?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar