Jita Park Speakers Corner

yeah i'm sure they'll line up to take space made worth even less, great plan
anyway any solution you can think of is countered by charging smaller alliances rent and killing anyone who tried to claim an 'abandoned' system

Agreed that CCP should consider adding more systems / regions / types of space in the spirit of exploration, but that idea is a tough one to swallow when roaming through both Sov-controlled and NPC-owned null-sec where only a handful of systems are populated and the rest are *completely* empty in a given time zone.

Speaking of NPC-owned null-sec, there are a bunch of constellations and even regions in New Eden that afford the enterprising capsuleer access to non-Sov space. They have excellent exploration and pirate missioning options, as well.

Is there something new / different about your idea that I'm missing?

Something also to consider: CCP Greyscale, two years ago this April(?) was the frontman for a change to the null-sec Anomaly system which robbed the smaller guys who took a risk with Dominion and invested in iHubs + upgrade modules. *Many* smaller ventures who came to null-sec pulled up stakes and moved back to high-sec as a result.

EVE had a moment where risk-taking small enterprises were doing their thing in null-sec, but CCP, with little notice, pulled the rug out from underneath those ventures because they [publicly] believed that players were making too much ISK from the Anoms... They screwed the small guys diversifying null-sec -- the very situation we are discussing now.

I do not trust CCP to design their way out of current real or perceived game mechanic challenges or economic quagmires.

level 4 missions and incursions can be run non-stop, unlike anomalies. There is no potential loss of access to the mission agent, no way of being locked out of station. No need take time out of missioning to defend ones' assets, no rent to pay. Less threat of being ganked means higher ISK can be generated fast with cumulative wealth being fed into the ratting ship with no risk of losing said ship. No sov bill. No 1 bil investment into an ihub. Between the opportunity costs, the lowered ship efficiency and the sov costs, you're genuinely sure that the -0.1 truesec systems blanketing dozens of null regions are "worth more per hour"? For the sake of argument, I'm assuming when you said "trashiest nullsec systems", you meant after they were painstakingly and expensively upgraded. If you were asserting that raw 0.0 belt ratting compared to l4s, I would simply have insulted you back.

renting to noobs and crushing people trying to occupy 'abandoned' systems is what people are defining as 'empty' systems.


Truth is, sov mechanics aren't actually keeping any actual individuals out of nullsec, it's a frankly irrational fear mouthed in the CSM minutes by CCP Soundwave and Grayscale. Let's break this down:


If you (a new player) want to join a nullsec alliance, there are hundreds of 0.0 corps willing to take you in with very little effort on your end provided you want to contribute and can use CCP-provided tools to prove you're not a confirmed traitor. All you have to do is contribute to the group's goals and work as part of a team.

Maybe you're a casual player though, perhaps you don't feel you can pull your weight in a nullsec corp because you do real life stuff that's way more important then everyone else around you, who are clearly all losers. Well there are the gigantic coalitions who rely on sheer numbers to overcome lack of individual efficiency. With thousands of people at any given time shouldering the load, thousands more can coast in 0.0 with the most marginal of contributions towards 'strategic goals'

But let's say you don't want to contribute any sort of effort towards the group in exchange for access to grudgingly won nullsec space - you don't care what your peers did, gotta get mine. In that case there are still hundreds of already established renter corps with tens of thousands of members that will take you in exchange for very low ISK fees.

Let's take it a step further - you feel you shouldn't have to pitch in or help, or pay a rental fee, or anything. People should just let you rat and mine and moan in their hard-won space because you feel you are God's gift to New Eden. These nullsec stooges should really be thanking you for showing up and deigning to use their belts and stations. Well even that option exists too, it's called Providence. Alliances like CVA will do whatever they can to defend your ratting ship in their space without expecting anything in return.

Where exactly does it end? Where do the excuses end?
When will people admit that the main barrier keeping people from actual 'occupying' of 0.0 space is the lack appeal, based on the lack of functionality of 0.0 space for anything other then basic resource extraction?

Corporation taxes are limited to mission rewards, bonus rewards, and npc bounty, but only applies if the amount is 100,000 isk or higher. Change that corp tax parameter to include taxes applied to all professions and pay scales....


...and those industry players "hiding" in high sec will follow the trail of money-making to nul. Reduce the status-quot in highsec and more rats will leave the nest. Goons already sent in the snakes. Now to move all the cheese.

Oh, and a nul market hub (or at least eden-wide hub access) might help too.

That would do little to help nullsec industry as long as figuring out how to mine begins with "Step 1: Go To Highsec"

No matter how many mining bots were banned, it would not change the fact that highsec veld respawns more, has greater yield per roid (optimizing mining time), refines more efficiently (optimizing mining yield), less risk of having the ship ganked (decreasing potential cost), less time spent doing things other then mining (decreasing opportunity cost) and comes with CONCORD protection for the exact same base yield per mining cycle.

Since tritanium is the foundation of the EVE crafting food chain, the basic ingredient required to build anything, and it is overwhelmingly obvious from a miner's perspective to mine it in highsec, guess where the trit (and therefore the everything that is built with trit) will continue to be located exclusively?

Because there aren't infinite amounts of high ends to mine?

Obviously, if more people eventually switched back to mining ark over super-veld, then ark's value would then devalue again as it has now and super-veld's value per m3 would in turn increase. The flaw with your scenario is that it assumes that this will head in one direction instead of back and forth as market forces compete. More importantly, this scenario assures that through competing ABC and Super-Veld through this oscillating ore value system that nullsec industry will have locally mined low-ends in order to fuel its native manufacturing wing with, because a solid incentive to mine low-ends in 0.0 will actually be there.

Is like to see low ends added to spod first and see how that works out

Could it be Two step found the solution to macro/bot?

Instead of suicide gank groups like Goonswarm having all the fun, spawn NPC in high-sec that progressively grow in strength and numbers with duration in a spot. This would require testing and adjustment to make it work properly, but the end result is ridding all high-sec areas of afk players (mining/ratting/missioning/etc).