Intergalactic Summit

Your claims hold as much value as your life - less than nothing.

Perhaps the clear facts will be revealed to the public sometime - I am not betting on it - but the FACTS will not be revealed by the likes of you.




My my, aren't we edgy.

Turning off your translator to let 'Jaiji' show through - we know what that means by the way - is a sad way to enforce your own brand of cultural imperialism, treating foreigners with contempt, for the 'crime' of being foreigners. This is the same kind of thing that many State Nationals have complained about for years, but apparently it's perfectly fine when applied to others.

Of course you don't answer to foreigners. But this is the IGS - the INTERGALACTIC Summit - and any Capsuleer from anywhere can speak here and offer their questions and opinions as they please. That don't mean you will like what they have to say, but that does mean you can be the better person - lay off the absurd levels of paranoia and venomous hatred - and treat them with the respect they are due, as fellow Humans.

I mean, let's be honest here, you care about your State, much like other Nationals care about theirs, but still you see fit to treat their words and opinion with rethoric like this: "foreign menace", "masked attempts to undermine your [The State's] resolve, morale and way of life", and "listen to [foreigner] words only to analyze what poison they are laden with so [the State] may better defend itself against it". At the end of the day, you are apparently a loyal State Nationalist, and I as an example consider myself a loyal Intaki and Federal, but the opinions of me and mine are apparently worthless to you by default. Very interesting, to say the least, considering that - again as an example - I reserve this kind of treatment for more deserving targets, (the Gurista scum above being an example) and not fellow Nationals.

Finally, I wonder if you honestly believe that the only thing a 'foreigner' wants is to ruin your nation's way of life by any means, public words and opinion included? If this is the case, I feel genuinely sorry for you - I remember years ago when most State Nationals - not just a specific few, like it is today - could hold a civil conversation in public and get their beliefs and views through, without this shameful behaviour.

I have a good idea about what the answer to this question is, but what in Ida's name happened to you people since that time? Where did the respectable, honorable, and reasonable State citizen go?

That is cultural imperialism?
Guess you never stop learning.

The point you're missing in all of this is that this is a matter of the State and only of it. When foreigners come asking for explaining that needs to be done then I'm whole-heartedly laughing. When federation loyalists are using this to stage the next outrage I'm slightly amused, since they have nothing to gain in all of this with the exception of generating and spreading propaganda in such an obvious way that I'm wondering why I'm wasting my time to reply in the first place.

In the end we've got a situation where the sovereign conducts an operation - police or military - within its own borders that is suddenly creating an outrage first and foremost from traitors, foreigners, enemies of the State and other questionable persons.

In its essence your response isn't better than the one made by the Guristas representative earlier today.

Indeed, though I would prefer not to go in debt on the topic here, in an effort to prevent derailment.



I am not missing that point at all, I even pointed out to your co-worker that the Caldari State don't answer to anyone but themselves. The point I was making, that you seem to have ignored entirely, was completely different.

When people who are not State nationals question the State's conduct they are all exercising their freedom of speech. Their inquiry may not be respected, it may even be laughed at, especially Federals who inquire - they are after all not even people as far as many State nationals are concerned - but nothing prevents you to simply deny their requests, and ignore any further attempts to ask. That is, after all, in your right. By now you should be used to Federals getting involved where they have little to no business getting involved, and should also know how to ignore or counter such moves.



So now you are an authority to declare what anyone outside the State have to gain by asking your State what the green hell is going on inside your borders at this time, and are using this authority to declare that "the only thing they gain is generating and spreading propaganda" in an "obvious" way.

/sarcasm
Yes, it's quite obvious, indeed.
/sarcasm

I think you need to see the bigger picture here:

The Caldari State had a nation-wide mobilization of their military rivaling the level seen during the One Day War. THAT is in fact cause for some alarm, or did you honestly think the whole of the Federation - one of your neighbors and a faction you happen to be at war with at this time - would just sit on their hands and do nothing while you act? Perhaps you were indeed that arrogant, but we did not. Following this mobilization you started shelling several locations inside your own nation and in one operation, a Caldari corporation supposedly saw fit to accept an offer of help from the Guristas, of all things. That brings a load of questions, regarding this IDA group, the actions of the CPD, and several other things.

That Federals would ask these questions and get involved is to be expected 100%, and for my part I fully expected that any request from your end would be ignored or answered with nothing at all.



See my reply above. When your self-proclaimed enemy who started a war with you for their own gain suddenly start mobilizing their military you have cause for concern, you have the right to ask questions, especially you have the right to wonder what is going on when said enemy suddenly start bombing their own land and one of the results seen so far is driving a part of their own nation right into the hands of the Gurista - an entity that, I might add, is considered an enemy of the Federation.

You can't expect said enemy to share any info with you, of course, but you can still ask, futile though it may be. I have learned what to expect from the State over the years, but many other may not have gained that kind of insight yet. They will learn. Speaking of what I have come to learn over the years...



Rather needlessly insulting. Let me repeat the points I were making to your co-worker, Solarienne:

First of all, this is the IGS. Non-Capsuleers can pay to view the Summit and billions do, and Capsuleers can view it and contribute for free, sharing any statement, news, claims, questions or argument they please.

Stitcher saw fit to share an After Action Report regarding an incident in the State and this made the whole affair rather public. In the public, things tend to be talked about and questioned.

Apparently this was unacceptable to your co-worker, Solarinne, who saw fit to inform everyone of how shamelessly low some Caldari have managed to sink. I felt it was time to point out to her that, seeing as though most Caldari consider themselves better than their peers in other nations, it would be a good idea to demonstrate this by actually behaving better than all the non-Caldari, "Jaiji filth" she addressed.

So again, I must ask: Where did all the honorable conduct go? Where did the reasonable behavior, the intelligent arguments, the respectful but firm ability to hold a civilized conversation regardless of differing opinions, go?

I recall a Caldari State that was very different. I recall a State where people could answer questions with reasonable responses, a simple "no" or "You are not privy to this information" would usually follow sticking one's nose where it did not belong, and most other questions or arguments or debates could expect similarly well-placed responses, when applicable.

So what part of making this kind of observation deserves a response along the lines of "Your response is no better than that of a Gurista", Desiderya? Do I deserve ridicule for asking why one of your co-workers can't find it in her heart to behave in a civilized manner when responding to a highly public topic?

Hello sir. We haven't had the pleasure of meeting so far. I'm pleased to make your acquaintance. I must apologize for my question, below. I am a poor politician and worse philosopher.

I have read your message over a few times, the longer one specifically, and I admit, I'm rather mystified. You say that it is to be expected that the Gallente would ask questions about Caldari mobilization and actions within their own borders, and that the Caldari would likely refuse to answer these questions. These are both true facts, and have both happened in this thread.

It leaves me to ask myself, what was the point of your letter? The only thing I can imagine you might be saying is that you dislike being insulted, claiming the tone of my esteemed colleagues comments were hurtful. Yet you deigned to call them dishonourable, and used literal sarcasm, in the same posts. I don't therefore imagine this was your point - no doubt such behaviour is beneath a man of your caliber and standing, and you would be aware of such depths of hypocrisy. Could you clarify what you had meant in your post?

With all due respect, no one is required to behave to your expectations, including my fellow kirjuun.


That said,

Sometimes the brightest flowers aren't always the most pleasant smelling. That doesn't mean, however, that pleasant smelling flowers do not exist.

You give yourself too much credit. I didn't even bother to glance up from my duties as you threw it out there. If you consider patriotism and the pursuit of cultural integrity to be 'edgy', your nation is closer to hedonistic collapse than even I had assumed. Duty and saying what must be said is a burden and an honour, not a fad.

By the way, you really do talk too much.

I like you, you've got the right attitude. Shame you're on the wrong side of the fence.

BloodBird,

Stop wallowing in self-loathing and self-importance. It is starting to get disgusting. If you are feeling that hurt please suffer in quiescence.

Your line of questioning was in no way aimed at the mobilization and pondering whether it was a thread to the federation but instead it was a bout of propaganda generating, much like the Guristas did. Hence my comparison. The very outrage - entirely focused on how direct actions against innocents could be done - was the dominating theme from your fellow compatriots earlier, hence the direct and honest response from Ishenko-haani.

If you take offense by that - tough luck. It's the IGS, I guess you have to cope with opinions different than your own.

You're being unprofessional, Solarienne.

So what if foreigners are asking questions? It's for us to decide what questions need to asked (if any), and it's for us to represent our people with dignity and honour. Taunting somebody over getting shot is neither dignified nor honourable.

This squabbling is childish and reflects poorly on the State. If you can't respond to foreign commentary with calmness and professionalism, then for the Winds' sake learn how to endure it in silence instead.

Ms. Vero,

In recent memory, there was a rather public series of incidents (In hindsight likely conducted by PMC deniable assets resources such as Intara Directive Action by both sides) between Lai Dai and Sukuuvestaa which almost lead to full-scale corporate conflict mitigated only by CBT intervention in the matter. To current matter at hand, the incident can be used to illustrate the fact that in the Caldari State there exists eight separate Megacorporate legal systems in addition to the independent legal bodies sanctioned by the Chief Executive Panel such as the Caldari Business Tribunal and the Caldari Providence Directorate whom exist solely by the unanimous consensus of CEP member Megacorporations as a collective entity. The laws of the State are derived solely from the CEP member Megacorporations either individually over the corporate territories they own or collectively via the CEP.

The CBT would have been within its rights to request, within its mandate, for retributive action to be taken by other CEP Megacorporations or the Caldari Navy against both Lai Dai and Sukuuvestaa if the parties involved had failed to comply with its directives. Corporate sovereignty cuts both ways, and just as a corporation and Megacorporation in particular enjoys a great deal of independence and freedom to pursue their interests as they see fit, this also means that other sovereign Megacorporations collectively, through the CEP, can and will enforce the laws of the CEP and its agencies upon entities that do not comply with issued directives -- up to and including the use of force.

The CPD and Caldari Navy as lawful agencies of the CEP were acting within their mandates in conducting strikes against Intara Directive Action in the defence of the national security of the Caldari State. As no formal complaint has been filed to the CBT by a CEP member Megacorporation it can be safely assumed that these strikes were well within the laws set out by the CEP and had its approval. Additionally, Intara Directive Action is not a member of the CEP or a subsidiary element of a Megacorporation thereof, and does not enjoy the same degree of corporate rights as a full member of the CEP.

This was not attack against Caldari civilians as some have suggested, but rather an attack against a Caldari corporation that did not meet compliance with the CEP and its regulatory bodies and was a legitimate use of force by the CEP in defence of the interests and security of the Caldari State.




BloodBird-jaijii

The commentary made by myself was on the topic of extralegal or extrajudicial action brought up by Mlle. Vero. The SDII were provided as an example of an extralegal entity who operate outside the scope of the law of their nation (A fact not denied). The CPD however are not an extralegal entity in this instance since:

a) They have not breached the laws or sovereignty of a CEP member corporation.

b) They are a CEP approved agency no different to the CBT or Caldari Navy who were fulfilling their mandate on behalf of the CEP in the defence of the national security of the Caldari State.