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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Retribution 1.1] Armor Tanking 1.5

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Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#1101 - 2013-01-31 20:52:26 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Have the AAR's been seeded in the market yet? I have not been able to get any in the last two days I've visited the test server.


I contracted some to you.


Awesome! Thanks!
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#1102 - 2013-01-31 20:55:48 UTC  |  Edited by: MailDeadDrop
I'm aware that faction cap charges provide more capacitor when consumed in cap booster modules than their corresponding non-faction variants. Do they provide more shield HP when consumed in an ASB? If so, have you looked at creating an LP-store-sourced "special" nanite repair paste that is equivalent?

Obligatory joke: maybe "royal jelly" can be part of the name of the Amarr LP store version? Lol

MDD
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#1103 - 2013-01-31 21:31:07 UTC
MailDeadDrop wrote:
I'm aware that faction cap charges provide more capacitor when consumed in cap booster modules than their corresponding non-faction variants. Do they provide more shield HP when consumed in an ASB? If so, have you looked at creating an LP-store-sourced "special" nanite repair paste that is equivalent?

Obligatory joke: maybe "royal jelly" can be part of the name of the Amarr LP store version? Lol

MDD

Navy cap boosters don't boost shield any more, nor do they boost cap any more when consumed in cap boosters. They simply take up less space in the booster allowing you to fill them with more.

And as far as the jelly: nanite paste costs enough already. As interesting as it would be, it would make the AAR's obscenely expensive to use if you needed a faction variant of paste.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1104 - 2013-01-31 22:45:53 UTC
fukier wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Crazy KSK wrote:
has the Overheating Rig been turned into nanite paste or are we gonna see it soon on sisi?


The overheating rig won't make it into 1.1 as we want to make sure we have enough time to polish the rest of the features. Expect it to pop up again however.


What are its planned bonuses?

I would like to know because the way I initially understood it to improve both rep amount and cycle time bonuses provided by overheating.



i would call it a heatsink rig and make it reduce heat damage to all mods...

something like 30% reduction in heat damage for tech I and 40% for tech II (give it the fittings of a sentry drone rig so you can only fit one per ship)

if you want to make overheating better for active reps just increase thier base boost for overheating... that way it wont mess with the other rigs...



I'm sorry for being rude but I can't say my self you're serious or idiot for posting this, and believe me I'm trying to stay soft.

This can't be serious in any shape or form, first reason is the lack of all sense of pure mechanic requiring choices - read: I hit the f'ckin button or I don't- and aslo because it brings noting but micromanagement useless and tedious in such a game like Eve. Seriously, if you guys really like micromanagement, 0.01isk games and f'ckin macro'in just stop posting please.

I know I'm not that much of a help for improving Active armor tanking, not because of my supposed or not ideas/experience but because I have absolutely no trust on what is going on or will be out at the patch day, but for god sake please stop with such horrible ideas... ever hard drunk I think I can't sort that much bad stuff and believe me I do not need much effort after 10 paints.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1105 - 2013-01-31 22:50:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
MailDeadDrop wrote:
I'm aware that faction cap charges provide more capacitor when consumed in cap booster modules than their corresponding non-faction variants. Do they provide more shield HP when consumed in an ASB? If so, have you looked at creating an LP-store-sourced "special" nanite repair paste that is equivalent?

Obligatory joke: maybe "royal jelly" can be part of the name of the Amarr LP store version? Lol

MDD


Absolute wrong perception, which is not your fault if no one ever explained you the difference.

Why prefer navy cap boosters over regular ones?

Well as silly as that might seem to you, and clearly is, navy cap boosters deliver the same energy than regular ones !!

Tha fack?

Welp, one takes less space (m3) than the other one, that's why and nothing else to see other than make a milky cow.

You're welcome.

Also: make faction nanite paste? -hope you're not serious telling this, any serious guy armor tank trained will laugh at this.

Do you even read the announced changes so far and the differences vs ASB's?
Do you even follow battlecruiser changes where passive shield tanking battlecruisers have more power grid than active armor tanking ships????- really?? -I'm ok you can joke but please avoid mocking X there's enough of CCP on this one ( yer baddies!!! )

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
fukier
Gallente Federation
#1106 - 2013-02-01 00:04:01 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
fukier wrote:
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Crazy KSK wrote:
has the Overheating Rig been turned into nanite paste or are we gonna see it soon on sisi?


The overheating rig won't make it into 1.1 as we want to make sure we have enough time to polish the rest of the features. Expect it to pop up again however.


What are its planned bonuses?

I would like to know because the way I initially understood it to improve both rep amount and cycle time bonuses provided by overheating.



i would call it a heatsink rig and make it reduce heat damage to all mods...

something like 30% reduction in heat damage for tech I and 40% for tech II (give it the fittings of a sentry drone rig so you can only fit one per ship)

if you want to make overheating better for active reps just increase thier base boost for overheating... that way it wont mess with the other rigs...



I'm sorry for being rude but I can't say my self you're serious or idiot for posting this, and believe me I'm trying to stay soft.

This can't be serious in any shape or form, first reason is the lack of all sense of pure mechanic requiring choices - read: I hit the f'ckin button or I don't- and aslo because it brings noting but micromanagement useless and tedious in such a game like Eve. Seriously, if you guys really like micromanagement, 0.01isk games and f'ckin macro'in just stop posting please.

I know I'm not that much of a help for improving Active armor tanking, not because of my supposed or not ideas/experience but because I have absolutely no trust on what is going on or will be out at the patch day, but for god sake please stop with such horrible ideas... ever hard drunk I think I can't sort that much bad stuff and believe me I do not need much effort after 10 paints.


10 paints eh?

post with your main...

how is a rig that reduces heat damage a bad idea... your post was filled with cheeto neckbeard rage but lacked any real insight other then your inability to press more then one button...

hint if you have nothing helpfull to post and can only post cheeto rage then try not posting at all...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Wivabel
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#1107 - 2013-02-01 00:40:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Wivabel
Fozzie would it be possible to get a comment on the idea of having the AAR rep amount selectable.

ie The ability to choose to rep at either the 3/4 amount or the 3x amount(as long as nanite repair paste is loaded in the module). Even if it was something as simple as the module only uses the 3x boosted nanite repair paste amount when overheating (Until the paste runs out of course). Some have suggested that maybe when overheated with nanite paste loaded it would not cause heat damage maybe something to think about.

I really believe adding this functionality will be the difference in the usefulness of this module. As it stands right now you essentially have a 1 rep tank with the ability to burst tank for a bit. This forces you to use your burst right away and hope you can burn your enemy down rather than truly saving the burst for the perfect moment where it may tip the scales in your favor. If we could have a 1 and 3/4 repper tank until burst was needed it would help to flesh out the repper and allow burst to be used in more extreme cases rather than right at the beginning of a fight.

Otherwise I have tested the new repper alot and it is better than just another T2 rep but the flavor really is not there.


WivCool

I am not sure if I am going to log in anymore.......
Violous
Vae Caudex Corporation
#1108 - 2013-02-01 01:28:21 UTC
I was able to test the MAAR and the LAAR on a few ships and I ran into a few Issues.

First you cannot select when to rep without using nanites. On the test server its not a big deal but on TQ it would be beneficial to maybe have a half load option.

Second on both Gal/Amarr it was extremely hard to maintain any sort of tank under neut/nos pressure. Since to make any sort of tank you certainly need at least one rep and one AAR. Thankfully the extra cargo provided by the nanite paste leaves some room for boosters but even then you balance cap/tank. The extra nanite cost is worth it in cargo.

Third even putting 2-3 reps on bonused hulls it was easier (both cost/fitting) to put on an almost equivalent XLASB/LASB combo (not including silly crystal set). Even if shield repped less than the MAAR, especially on Amarr ships I would definitely be hard pressed to choose armor reps over the XLASB's simply due to the extra cap it makes available.

Unfortunately I only got honeycombing to 4 (since i did have alot of fun in some MAAR legions) and ran out of reimbursement sp....But even so the extra 30m/s and 2-3 s align (no idea on actual numbers) are noticeable and very welcome to plated ships. This is by far the best change to armor tanking so far.
Sigras
Conglomo
#1109 - 2013-02-01 07:16:26 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
I'm sorry for being rude but I can't say my self you're serious or idiot for posting this, and believe me I'm trying to stay soft.

This can't be serious in any shape or form, first reason is the lack of all sense of pure mechanic requiring choices - read: I hit the f'ckin button or I don't- and aslo because it brings noting but micromanagement useless and tedious in such a game like Eve. Seriously, if you guys really like micromanagement, 0.01isk games and f'ckin macro'in just stop posting please.

I know I'm not that much of a help for improving Active armor tanking, not because of my supposed or not ideas/experience but because I have absolutely no trust on what is going on or will be out at the patch day, but for god sake please stop with such horrible ideas... ever hard drunk I think I can't sort that much bad stuff and believe me I do not need much effort after 10 paints.

Is this lorem ipsum? can anyone figure out what this idiot is trying to say?

From what i can gather from the incoherent drivel that is this terrible post is that he's too lazy or too idiotic to press more than one button and manage overheating his modules, so he doesnt want anything put into the game that he cant understand or make work . . .

Thats a great reason to not want a change . . . totally unbiased . . .
Captain Semper
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#1110 - 2013-02-01 09:43:22 UTC
Few minutes ago i tested AAR...
Is it ok that AAR still need cap for use even if it charged? What a point make one more simple armor repair if 1 neut counter you "mega burst armor tank"?
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#1111 - 2013-02-01 09:58:59 UTC
on a side note and just general question to our devs here, why exactly do plates need grid to fit and also why so much of it, i honestly dont understand why it would need power to use a plate you quite literealy just weld onto the side of your ship pretty much.
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#1112 - 2013-02-01 10:36:24 UTC
ITTigerClawIK wrote:
on a side note and just general question to our devs here, why exactly do plates need grid to fit and also why so much of it, i honestly dont understand why it would need power to use a plate you quite literealy just weld onto the side of your ship pretty much.


Game mechanics. Plain and simple. Every choice you make has to have some sort of cost within the game - for fitting this is in pg or cpu. The bigger the benefit the bigger the cost.
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1113 - 2013-02-01 11:10:29 UTC
Nikuno wrote:
ITTigerClawIK wrote:
on a side note and just general question to our devs here, why exactly do plates need grid to fit and also why so much of it, i honestly dont understand why it would need power to use a plate you quite literealy just weld onto the side of your ship pretty much.


Game mechanics. Plain and simple. Every choice you make has to have some sort of cost within the game - for fitting this is in pg or cpu. The bigger the benefit the bigger the cost.

They have a cost: speed. That's more than enough penalty on its own. Guns and reppers cost tons of PG because they do something that logically requires power, and they don't slow your ship down. If you want to drop seven 1600mm plates onto your ship and turn it into a freighter, with the glacial 60s align time and 50 m/s speed that goes along, then so be it.

EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#1114 - 2013-02-01 11:23:11 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Seranova Farreach wrote:
armor is still superior for pvp fleets as it has much higher EHP yealds then shield and saved mids for prop and tackle and/or cap boosters, whilst shield needed ancil booster to minimize the amound of tank slots they lost while also beign able to fit prop and tackle.



Situations where armor are superior: capital size -please tells us why



Slaves work on capitals.

1,000,000 DPS tank with 1,000,000 EHP doesn't help you when a fleet co-ordinates 1,000,001 damage on you, despite only doing 50,000 DPS

Also remote repping is more effective, efficient and generally better than local repping. Fitting buffer increases the effectiveness of this even more and allows fitting bigger guns due to low PG costs.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#1115 - 2013-02-01 11:27:03 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
1. It’s MUCH more expensive to run an AAR and
2. The lack of ‘Navy Paste’ means that either large AAR’s have a disadvantage over XL-ASB’s or, if you are balancing these rep amounts against *assumed* navy cap boosters, small AAR’s have an advantage over small ASB’s (there is no navy 25 booster). Does this make any sense?

Typical example of space-poor. Go ask donations in Jita.
Also, people that load vanilla boosters instead of navy into ASB - deserve to die in a fire.

Maeltstome wrote:
Honestly… remove the cap usage.

I repeat - die in a fire.


I'm not space poor - i'm pointing out an imbalance. And i like how you didn't address the main point: The discrepancy in the lack of availability of navy paste caused by navy boosters being an option in the other ancillary tanking module type.

You should crawl into a hole and die, or better yet, jump out of the window of your parent's attic and hope that your troglodyte body dies from impact damage before you burn to death from the first sun-light you've felt in 40 years.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#1116 - 2013-02-01 12:54:22 UTC
Captain Semper wrote:
Few minutes ago i tested AAR...
Is it ok that AAR still need cap for use even if it charged? What a point make one more simple armor repair if 1 neut counter you "mega burst armor tank"?


Pretty much hit the nail on the head, i made a post highlighting this but received no reply. Instead, standard CCP 'quote the guy who asked a stupid question that's already been answered' tactics where employed.

I remember why i don't post in feedback threads, intelligent people raise amazingly well thought out concerns and i'm like "Wow, i never thought of that". Then in the next post CCP are like:

CCPDev wrote:
UselessNoobCommenter wrote:

HUR DURR WHAT DOES IT COST ON MARKET

Exactly what it says in the OP


And i go all 'Jackie Chan face' Meme on my computer
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1117 - 2013-02-01 13:11:54 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Captain Semper wrote:
Few minutes ago i tested AAR...
Is it ok that AAR still need cap for use even if it charged? What a point make one more simple armor repair if 1 neut counter you "mega burst armor tank"?


This is the whole point of the AAR, as stated clearly in the OP.

It modulates rep but not cap use, because we're at or past our limit for "game mechanics that other players cannot influence".

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#1118 - 2013-02-01 13:14:09 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Captain Semper wrote:
Few minutes ago i tested AAR...
Is it ok that AAR still need cap for use even if it charged? What a point make one more simple armor repair if 1 neut counter you "mega burst armor tank"?


This is the whole point of the AAR, as stated clearly in the OP.

It modulates rep but not cap use, because we're at or past our limit for "game mechanics that other players cannot influence".


I know this is a bit off topic however... I was wondering if you and your team have been looking at the effectiveness of nos and intend on any changes in the near or distant future. Thanks fozzie!
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#1119 - 2013-02-01 13:16:05 UTC
Captain Semper wrote:
Few minutes ago i tested AAR...
Is it ok that AAR still need cap for use even if it charged? What a point make one more simple armor repair if 1 neut counter you "mega burst armor tank"?

What's the use of MWD if 1 scram switches it off?
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#1120 - 2013-02-01 13:19:03 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Captain Semper wrote:
Few minutes ago i tested AAR...
Is it ok that AAR still need cap for use even if it charged? What a point make one more simple armor repair if 1 neut counter you "mega burst armor tank"?


This is the whole point of the AAR, as stated clearly in the OP.

It modulates rep but not cap use, because we're at or past our limit for "game mechanics that other players cannot influence".


Respect lost. You opened pandora's box and now you're trying to shut it without destroying what came out.

Until Bhaalghorhs, Talisman's, egress rigs and passive tanking are totally overhauled, nothing you trying to impliment will take off.

P.s.

I pay to play this game, and reserve the right to be a d*ck on the forums of my peers. You on the other hand get payed to develop this game and communicate with it's playerbase, and everything you say reflect on CCP as a whole - with that in mind i'd like to point out this is the second time you resorted to under-hand and borderline insulting comments against it's players. No one is ever 100% happy with changes or addition, get over it or get a new job.