EVE General Discussion

Not really, I go from the opposite premise: I don't try applying RL concepts to EvE.
It's CCP who sells a game being touted as "realistic economy" and as having corporations with shares, tickers, assets management and whatever.
I just find that they are not delivering a clear game design pretending to mimick RL. Exactly like with Dominion they are not delivering a functional and *fun* sov system.

Edit: it's why in a previous post I stated that CCP keeps selling goodwill and Fanfests are a motivational advertisement to keep believing in goodwill. The stated plans then either don't happen at all or only get implemented as shallow drafts. Wis? Ended up being a shallow concept preview. PI? Ended up as shallow "clickable circlets". Dust integration? Let's see IF we'll ever get something more than a dessie lighting up some pixels.

The disconnect lies in the difference between a pod pilot and a corporate serf in a planetary corporation.

Not sure how this is anyway in theme with a cold, harsh universe where megacorps go so far to start bloody wars for more profit, but that's not what I wanted to push about.

What I am trying to say is that in RL the "employer => employee" model works so well that it's the prominent mechanic. It's sort of an optimized model, so most go for it.

If in EvE it does not work like this and the model is restricted to the few who actively choose it, it's because EvE does not give the infrastructures to let that model to prevail. Exactly like it won't give the infrastructures for you to do industry. That is, you perceive the latter while I perceive the lack of both features.

VV,

CORPORATION says NOTHING about how a business is run or what that business is.

You're using CORPORATIONS and applying it to a specific BUSINESS model.
The people that run a corporation decide how THE BUSINESS is run.

They may issue shares, or they may not.

The CORPORATIONS in EVE are being used in their proper context. They are entities that have been granted "rights" by one of the four factions in EVE, and may or may not operate as a for profit business.

Cold an harsh?
The incorporation of a for profit business is considered to be morally wrong and unethical in many areas of the world. There are people fighting and dying, in small part, over this. You usually here it refered to as capitalism though, but it usually has it's roots in what a government allows a business to do.

Some people actually believe it's a very bad thing to give a business legal RIGHTS.

Coca-cola, the corporation, doesn't feel they have a moral or legal responcibility to not support bottlers and governments that have uniion leaders assasinated.

Corporations, that do things like fraking for natural gas, are not legally bound by laws and regulations that prevent them poluting the enviroment, so they're allowed to make the drinking water wherever they work undrinkable, and kill people.

Corporations, that are in the oil business, support rebel uprisings in a little country called the Central African Republic; that causes people to die. The governments that granted these corporations legal RIGHTS do nothing to stop them.

I'm not sure why you think that corporations don't fit into the "cold, harsh" theme.


And for the record.
There's a praticular business model that, when the world suffered a recession, managed to keep chugging right along without to much serious set back.

Co-ops, EMPLOYEE OWNED business, do not fit your idea of "optimized model".

One could, and believe me I do, make the arguement that your employee-employer model is the LEAST optimized. It doesn't encourage harder work, it doesn't invest the employee in the companies well being, it doesn't reward the employee for improving profits. Your model is based on greed, it rewards the employer who, when large enough, doesn't need to care about their eployees, only the bottom line and how much more they can make.

You're idea is what leads to things like people asking how they can avoid being a drone meatshield, who is at the beck and whim of their null overlords. We have enough of that nonsense already, and don't need mechanics that actually make that a reality in EVE.



If you want to run a corporation in EVE that way, do so. You already have that ability.
But stop talking about how a CORPORATION should be run, it has nothing to do with what you're saying you'd like to see.

You mean like an industrial corp that works within an alliance? We have corps that work with our alliance, and all they do is mine.

Or how about that freighter service that is an idependent corporation, but works with a particular alliance?

There's even a group in the GSF that just does booster production.

Yes, it does exist. People just seem to think that "being independent" in null means being able to hold sov and not have to worry about a larger group taking it from them.

An alliance is not a single entity, it's a LOT of indipendent entities. Some working together to hold space, other providing services that the space holders require.

GoonWaffe is like a mix of co-op and employer-employee.

As a line member industrialist I contribute to the greater good and am invested in the success of the corporation through my ability to make more for myself. Which is kind of the essense of a cooperative business model.

At the same time there are "programs" I could participate in which would effectively put me in the employee role. These are things the the corporation subsidized because they're strategic assets that the corporation needs, an they will effectively pay me to help make those things.

I could also work with one of the mining outfits that work with the GSF, and get paid by that group for the minerals I mine.

I can also participate in a kind of refining program that others have set up, where I can get paid by someone else to profive refineable goods.

Salvage is the same.
Or I could work within a freighter group and get paid by them to move peoples things around.

The business model you want exists, and people are already set up and working that way.

However, sinse a corporation isn't defined by the kind of business model they employ, there is no mechanic to force people to play under a specific state.

EVE corporations are working in EVE, within the context of what a corporation actually is; with different corporation employing different business models.

1: Balance industrial capacity of regions around the principle of nullsec and highsec's respective goods consumption rates (aka ship loss). Not sure if lowsec people want a developed industry though as they seem to enjoy their current pirate gameplay.
2: Ban NPC corps and remove wardec evasion.
3: Fix POSs so that every small group's (null, WH and low)'s gameplay is dramatically improved.
4: Hmm...

I'd be happy with just 3.

I would like Wardecs fixed so it costs a large corporation MUCH more than it does now for a War Dec. Stop the purely for Lulz wardecs.

Please CCP fix POS's. Modernize, modularize and streamline invention and copying. A decent refinery array for the Null and WH folks would be nice.

Quit stealth nerfing high sec exploration. You call it a profession, well it's a pretty poorly paying one. Weakly skilled players should not be able to even find the decent radars and Grav sites. Instead you make the cheap mag sites the hardest to find. Wrong!

[*] Some new T3 stuff would be nice also.

It's virtually impossible to construct a RL-style emplpoyer/employee relationship in EVE, because the barrier to quitting a job and either setting up on one's own or joining another group is so low. If I quit my job, I can't just go and shoot pirates for government bounty to sustain my living costs, nor are there vast, renewing mineral deposits lying around for whoever wishes to mine them. The economic environment in EVE is so fundamentally different to a RL modern industrial economy that even such a moon-calf concept as Objectivism works as an economic theory here, ffs! There are no children, no disabled, no involuntary unemployment, you can always parlay effort into income, government taxes are virtually non-existent. etc etc.

"Corps" in EVE are more like RL partnerships than employer/employee models. But what they're most of all like in CCPs Randian utopia where everyone is their own personal warship, is organised crime.

Contact Helicity Boson and make it happen then.