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Hulk needs love again
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Token Star
Metal Sun
#81 - 2013-01-31 15:15:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Token Star
Dave Stark wrote:
Token Star wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Fey Ivory wrote:
I dont agree...

Skiff... used fordangerous operations, amacing tank

Mackinaw... used for solo mining, huge orehold

Hulk... used for fleet mining, best m3 out put

you want best ore hold get a Mack


Wrong. Hold large enough to hold only one cycle is broken. It needs to be at least 2, to make flipping viable without macro.

How many hulks are you trying to run? The hulks hold is fine as is and it works great for fleet tops.


CCP uses every possible marketing strategy to encourage EVE Players to own more than one account, and many player's do.
I don't think that I should be penalized for trying to single-box a multi-toon mining fleet without using macros!


you have two mins to cycle through your hulks and empty them, unless you're running an absurd amount of hulks then all you need to do is be on the ball a bit more.

alternatively, stagger your strips.


I'm 50 years old, my ability to "be on the ball a bit more" is not as good as it used to be Big smile
I can hardly imagine why anyone would be opposed to changing this one thing.
Dave Stark
#82 - 2013-01-31 15:20:26 UTC
Token Star wrote:


I'm 50 years old, my ability to "be on the ball a bit more" is not as good as it used to be Big smile


then stagger your strips. it'll give you more time before your lasers shut off due to a full cargo hold.
Token Star
Metal Sun
#83 - 2013-01-31 15:27:42 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Token Star wrote:


I'm 50 years old, my ability to "be on the ball a bit more" is not as good as it used to be Big smile


then stagger your strips. it'll give you more time before your lasers shut off due to a full cargo hold.


They're always staggered mate, that's not the total solution.
Dave Stark
#84 - 2013-01-31 15:28:46 UTC
Token Star wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Token Star wrote:


I'm 50 years old, my ability to "be on the ball a bit more" is not as good as it used to be Big smile


then stagger your strips. it'll give you more time before your lasers shut off due to a full cargo hold.


They're always staggered mate, that's not the total solution.


then you've got to be running a relatively high number of accounts if you feel the hulk doesn't have enough cargo...
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#85 - 2013-01-31 15:31:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Token Star wrote:
CCP needs to make the Hulk's ore hold just a little bit bigger, it should comfortably hold 2 full laser cycles without overflowing.
I'm trying to manage a mining fleet utilizing 3 accounts and I find it very easy to overflow the holds even when I have the Orca sitting within 2500 meters of my ships. I just recently added a 4th miner account to my collection, but i'm thinking of keeping the 3rd miner in a Mack just make things more managable. I really hate to see that hold overflowing very often because its an inefficient use of my laser cycles whenever that happens. I have to offload the ore every 122 secs approximately and that takes a lot of attention, after 4 minutes my holds will be overflowing.

IMHO the status quo just encourages people to use macros, which is something I try to do without.

And i'm not asking for the ability to AFK mine here, I just want the system to be a little more forgiving.


u are precisely the guy im talking about. u should be using macks for ur triple boxing, or u need to get better with ur triple boxing, one of the two.

the hulk is not meant for multi boxing. use a mack, even if its just one to go along side the hulk or make some friends. why do u think u never have to compromise and can have max everything?!

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Dave Stark
#86 - 2013-01-31 15:33:18 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Token Star wrote:
CCP needs to make the Hulk's ore hold just a little bit bigger, it should comfortably hold 2 full laser cycles without overflowing.
I'm trying to manage a mining fleet utilizing 3 accounts and I find it very easy to overflow the holds even when I have the Orca sitting within 2500 meters of my ships. I just recently added a 4th miner account to my collection, but i'm thinking of keeping the 3rd miner in a Mack just make things more managable. I really hate to see that hold overflowing very often because its an inefficient use of my laser cycles whenever that happens. I have to offload the ore every 122 secs approximately and that takes a lot of attention, after 4 minutes my holds will be overflowing.

IMHO the status quo just encourages people to use macros, which is something I try to do without.

And i'm not asking for the ability to AFK mine here, I just want the system to be a little more forgiving.


u are precisely the guy im talking about. u should be using macks for ur triple boxing, or u need to get better with ur triple boxing, one of the two.

the hulk is not meant for multi boxing. use a mack, even if its just one to go along side the hulk or make some friends. why do u think u never have to compromise and can have max everything?!


so you're telling some one to NOT use the "fleet ship" in a fleet?

really?
Kueyen
Angharradh's Aegis
#87 - 2013-01-31 15:57:03 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
so you're telling some one to NOT use the "fleet ship" in a fleet?

really?


A fleet should be a gathering of players, not you and your alts.

Really.

Until all are free...
Dave Stark
#88 - 2013-01-31 15:59:05 UTC
Kueyen wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
so you're telling some one to NOT use the "fleet ship" in a fleet?

really?


A fleet should be a gathering of players, not you and your alts.

Really.


so we're relegating the hulk to "only to be used by players with one account, in a fleet where they're effectively being slaves"?

if that's so then the rebalance failed even more horribly than i initially thought.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2013-01-31 16:01:03 UTC
I love my mini personal hulk fleet, everything works out quite well and I still have time to run and get a fresh cup of coffee from the kitchen between cycles.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Token Star
Metal Sun
#90 - 2013-01-31 18:00:24 UTC
Not much point in arguing how other players should or should not play the game; within the limitations of the game's mechanics many play-styles are possible. As someone who pays for 4 accounts here I figure it's my privilege to suggest a way in which the game could be improved for myself.
Infinite Force
#91 - 2013-01-31 18:35:16 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Kueyen wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
so you're telling some one to NOT use the "fleet ship" in a fleet?

really?
A fleet should be a gathering of players, not you and your alts.

Really.
so we're relegating the hulk to "only to be used by players with one account, in a fleet where they're effectively being slaves"?

if that's so then the rebalance failed even more horribly than i initially thought.

I'll be straight up on this -- I mine Grav sites in a WH where the bigger rocks can literally last for hours (this is also true for Null Sec Grav sites). No one in their right mind would use only 1 boosted hulk (in a fleet or not). These sites are typically run by 5, 10, 20+ hulks at a time -- and usually under the control of 1, 2, or 5 people (some times more).

My setup: 6 - 8 hulks (T2 strips & T2 crystals), a Maxed Rorqual booster. My Hulk cycles approx every 120s - with no pilot implants.

This pulls in ~5.5k m3 Ore every 2 minutes - that means I drop around 45k m3 of Ore every 2 minutes filling that very small Orca about every 8 minutes.

If you jet can mine, this means that you are _constantly_ moving between the hulks to empty Ore holds. Jet a can, open it, fill it, jet, open, fill (repeat ....). Not to mention the need to monitor intel channels, dscan and the like.

The hulk might be "king of yield", but it is a PAIN to not have 2 fully boosted t2 cycles worth a storage. This is a game, not a job!


FWIW - I filled ~14 enormous freight containers in a grav site lastnight. At 250k m3 storage / container, it was much easier than jet-can mining. I pulled in ~3.5M m3 of Ore (6 hulks) in 4.5 hours -- and didn't move once!! MUCH easier.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#92 - 2013-01-31 18:56:19 UTC
New and exciting

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Dave Stark
#93 - 2013-01-31 19:01:41 UTC
Infinite Force wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Kueyen wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
so you're telling some one to NOT use the "fleet ship" in a fleet?

really?
A fleet should be a gathering of players, not you and your alts.

Really.
so we're relegating the hulk to "only to be used by players with one account, in a fleet where they're effectively being slaves"?

if that's so then the rebalance failed even more horribly than i initially thought.

I'll be straight up on this -- I mine Grav sites in a WH where the bigger rocks can literally last for hours (this is also true for Null Sec Grav sites). No one in their right mind would use only 1 boosted hulk (in a fleet or not). These sites are typically run by 5, 10, 20+ hulks at a time -- and usually under the control of 1, 2, or 5 people (some times more).

My setup: 6 - 8 hulks (T2 strips & T2 crystals), a Maxed Rorqual booster. My Hulk cycles approx every 120s - with no pilot implants.

This pulls in ~5.5k m3 Ore every 2 minutes - that means I drop around 45k m3 of Ore every 2 minutes filling that very small Orca about every 8 minutes.

If you jet can mine, this means that you are _constantly_ moving between the hulks to empty Ore holds. Jet a can, open it, fill it, jet, open, fill (repeat ....). Not to mention the need to monitor intel channels, dscan and the like.

The hulk might be "king of yield", but it is a PAIN to not have 2 fully boosted t2 cycles worth a storage. This is a game, not a job!


FWIW - I filled ~14 enormous freight containers in a grav site lastnight. At 250k m3 storage / container, it was much easier than jet-can mining. I pulled in ~3.5M m3 of Ore (6 hulks) in 4.5 hours -- and didn't move once!! MUCH easier.


after reading your post, the point of it eludes me. did you even have a point?
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#94 - 2013-01-31 19:23:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
The Hulk is now a dedicated group mining vessel. It rewards people with higher mining yields for working together. Working as intended. If you want to mine solo, use a Mack, which is ideally suited for solo use. Not only that, after the mining barge changes it is possible to get a better yield with the Mack than was possible with the hulk before, especially taking into account the fact you don't have to dock up frequently.

The hulk now mines significantly more than it did before, it has already been buffed. If you want to use the Hulk, find a corp with Orca support. That's how it's supposed to be used. If your mining solo in a Hulk, then your using the wrong ship.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Infinite Force
#95 - 2013-01-31 19:38:51 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Infinite Force wrote:
...
The hulk might be "king of yield", but it is a PAIN to not have 2 fully boosted t2 cycles worth a storage. This is a game, not a job!
...

after reading your post, the point of it eludes me. did you even have a point?

i had buried it .. not thinking good today.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Dave Stark
#96 - 2013-01-31 20:03:53 UTC
Infinite Force wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Infinite Force wrote:
...
The hulk might be "king of yield", but it is a PAIN to not have 2 fully boosted t2 cycles worth a storage. This is a game, not a job!
...

after reading your post, the point of it eludes me. did you even have a point?

i had buried it .. not thinking good today.


*shrug* only if you're running 8 hulks without a multibox program.

it's no worse than ratting isk/hour dropping in efficiency after having a few extra accounts (i forget how many).

there are many ways around the issue; stop trying to be the octopus man, get a multibox program, drop some accounts.
honestly it really isn't that big of a deal. if you stagger your strips you get 2.5 mins to cycle through your hulks and dump your ore.

there are far more important things that need fixing with the hulk, and mining ships in general than "i can't multibox 8 hulks at once". orca could do with some more ore bay capacity though, it looks like a sick joke next to the mackinaw.
Infinite Force
#97 - 2013-01-31 20:18:37 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Infinite Force wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Infinite Force wrote:
...
The hulk might be "king of yield", but it is a PAIN to not have 2 fully boosted t2 cycles worth a storage. This is a game, not a job!
...

after reading your post, the point of it eludes me. did you even have a point?

i had buried it .. not thinking good today.


*shrug* only if you're running 8 hulks without a multibox program.

it's no worse than ratting isk/hour dropping in efficiency after having a few extra accounts (i forget how many).

there are many ways around the issue; stop trying to be the octopus man, get a multibox program, drop some accounts.
honestly it really isn't that big of a deal. if you stagger your strips you get 2.5 mins to cycle through your hulks and dump your ore.

there are far more important things that need fixing with the hulk, and mining ships in general than "i can't multibox 8 hulks at once". orca could do with some more ore bay capacity though, it looks like a sick joke next to the mackinaw.

I do use isBoxer .. great way to do stuff, but you still have to pay attention to individual instances. I use it mostly just to manage the window instances more so than to have them all doing exactly the same thing.

Even so, CCP wanted to nerf the AFK mining, but they didn't do a good job at it .. people just use a different ship (ret/mack) now.

It annoys me too that they go through all this effort to "tiericide" stuff, but don't update all the related pieces -- Rorqual / Orca holds, survey scanner ranges, etc., etc., so I'm just posting my 2 cents to keep these topics towards the top when people bring them up.

And yes, the Orca could use with an updated Ore hold of _at least_ 250k m3 and the Rorqual .. well, a lot more (maybe 950k+ m3 Orehold?) if you want us to bring it near a belt? Make it worth it.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#98 - 2013-01-31 23:43:46 UTC
I'd say reduce Hulk yield so it only fills 50% of the orebay per cycle. OP should be happy with this.

My Condor costs less than that module!
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#99 - 2013-02-01 00:55:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Dave Stark wrote:


so you're telling some one to NOT use the "fleet ship" in a fleet?

really?


actually i told him to get better at multi boxing as well. if hes not good enough, then he should just use one mack and one hulk to compensate for his poor piloting.

if the hulk gets extra ore bay because it cannot hold more than one cycle, then i want freighters to have an expanded cargo bay because it cannot carry all my ships at once. i either have to make several trips or use more than one freighter. this is unfair. its not like i even have an alternative like hulk pilots do with the mack...so unfair.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#100 - 2013-02-01 00:57:46 UTC
Infinite Force wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Kueyen wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
so you're telling some one to NOT use the "fleet ship" in a fleet?

really?
A fleet should be a gathering of players, not you and your alts.

Really.
so we're relegating the hulk to "only to be used by players with one account, in a fleet where they're effectively being slaves"?

if that's so then the rebalance failed even more horribly than i initially thought.

I'll be straight up on this -- I mine Grav sites in a WH where the bigger rocks can literally last for hours (this is also true for Null Sec Grav sites). No one in their right mind would use only 1 boosted hulk (in a fleet or not). These sites are typically run by 5, 10, 20+ hulks at a time -- and usually under the control of 1, 2, or 5 people (some times more).

My setup: 6 - 8 hulks (T2 strips & T2 crystals), a Maxed Rorqual booster. My Hulk cycles approx every 120s - with no pilot implants.

This pulls in ~5.5k m3 Ore every 2 minutes - that means I drop around 45k m3 of Ore every 2 minutes filling that very small Orca about every 8 minutes.

If you jet can mine, this means that you are _constantly_ moving between the hulks to empty Ore holds. Jet a can, open it, fill it, jet, open, fill (repeat ....). Not to mention the need to monitor intel channels, dscan and the like.

The hulk might be "king of yield", but it is a PAIN to not have 2 fully boosted t2 cycles worth a storage. This is a game, not a job!


FWIW - I filled ~14 enormous freight containers in a grav site lastnight. At 250k m3 storage / container, it was much easier than jet-can mining. I pulled in ~3.5M m3 of Ore (6 hulks) in 4.5 hours -- and didn't move once!! MUCH easier.


would using more than one orca help? theres nothing that says u must only use one orca per fleet.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs