EVE General Discussion

Yeah. Problem is not WHERE the bot are installed. Problem is what organized groups manage them massively and who needs and benefit of this.

We all have read in the last times leaks, alliances forums, chat logs about this (I'm sure you lnow what I'm talking about, do not make me browse the web to post the links). Nothing of this is itself a "proof" (ToS wise) of anything. But is a proof of how this people are used to live with botting farms and to consider it a comon, accepted variable in the game and in the 0.0 alliances balance of power.

We also know of some ban for RTM and in witxh kind of gameplay this banned people were involved.

When you read a coalition leader (now I'm only taking the most recent documents about this, could post more from the past years related to other groups and ppl, is only to explain) to deal with a well-known and pluri-banned botter/RTMer in this way:

(09:01:10) montolio: Baki Yuki has supplied me with T2 BPOs to fund our war machine
(09:01:28) martyr12: and I helped you gain 3 region and unclaimed from azn story, sure was also other corps
(09:01:37) martyr12: but all pvp assets of rol where in azn a major hit
(09:01:46) montolio: You make ISK like crazy, its not like you need it
(09:01:56) montolio: Baki has been helping out, he has been rewarded for it
(09:02:01) martyr12: you can get banned
(09:02:03) montolio: His group has stability, good access
(09:02:08) martyr12: if I give you isk you now that?
(09:02:18) montolio: Can’t you clean it?
(09:02:25) martyr12: I now many ways

This do not prove anyone is "gulty"r, but show how for some groups (or at least for their leaders) is normal and accpeted or something to deal with this on a massive level.


When an alliance leader feel the need to warn his members:

(5:34:54 PM) directorbot: Gentlegoons,
the reason for our new no-elusifs rule is that we cannot afford to have
our caps and supercaps seduced by the ~siren song~ of EVE GOLD and have
that impact the defense of the realm in a time of war now that CCP
appears to actually be enforcing anti-rmt/botting for the first time in [...]


This show the problem exists and is common and well-known inside some groups (and in the specifi example their leader is also intelligent enough to see the risks and to do something to fix, ok).

But when it comes to this forum everyone negate the simple existance of the issue. And is curious becuase the people in the first line to negate the problem are always from specific groups, you don't see groups or people operating in The Forge stating the problem doesn't exists or is not relevant. I think this is not a smart approach cause can only feed suspets (false of course!).

Hey look guys, someone else commenting on **** they know nothing about.

Citaton needed

Nothing stopping you sponsoring another one if you want to. I hear costs have gone up, rather a lot though.

As much as I dislike the goons, I like very much your posts. Alike the sea of trolls around here, you always give back valid and solid arguments explaining stuff, so... thanks for you response. Hopefully they will not kick you out just because being honest and a non-troll.

+1

No, they killed 10% tanked ships and 90% untanked, AFK ships. Different criterium, too bad if those baddies were real players tbh.

It depends upon the corporation. Goons does what you're asking, it's just done with more advanced stuff.
As well, groups within groons do these things.

We have guys that run mining fleets and pay the miners.
We have guys that do cap and super cap building and pay the industrialists.
Some guys supply specific things directly to the corp and are paid for it.

It's entirely up to the players, and not a situation that should ever be enforced. Not all of us play games to "work for someone".

I manage over 200 market orders in VFK, a lot of it I build.
Roughly a billion in transactions each day, off both buy and sell orders.

I'm providing things corp members need, and I'm buying things that other corp members sell.
Should our space come under attack I will undock in my badger2 with guns equipped and shoot stuff.

I contribute to the greater good, of a player driven enviroment, and don't need to be given "orders" or "work assignments" to do so.

Working for somoene in a game may be a novel idea, and possibly fun for some, but it's not something most people would want in a game.

The guys that run the corps have enough control already, they do not need to dictate how I play becaue they "pay me".

Yeah that's it, literally everyone who has ever lived in nullsec is all of like mind and nobody ever has thought of that. Or maybe there are valid reasons that it is not done, or a factor that caused the alliances that attempted it to fail. Fortunately, sociology and anthropologists have thousands of years of the behavior of pre-industrial human society and civilizations to draw upon.

Now, I know you think the rules and practices of real life corporations apply to EVE-Online corps mainly because they both use the word 'corporation', but bear with me.

Back then, citizens of a primarily resource-extraction based society (90% agriculture-based economy) would be able to use their land as much they wanted and pay a portion of their goods in either tribute (lump fee) or taxes in exchange to support services like the military and primitive social services that protected them from raiders and rival nations, as dictated by an autocratic leader. Once those mandates were met, the farmer would be able to use the remainder of his produce to generate as much profit as he saw fit. While nullsec alliances have developed increasingly complex ways to render equivalent value (PVP metrics, offloading the cost to serfs, offloading it to the obtainment and defense of Technetium) similar to mass drafts of the population when needed, anyone who's played in 0.0 recognizes that the above scenario is closer to the 0.0 environment then a modern corporate atmosphere. Then again maybe it was just a case of none of those billions in human history's past thought of your 'job alike' reward system and were also to blame for their system. Morons.


"Farms and fields" would at least acknowledge 0.0 economic reality as is as present, so CCP could start iterating upon it in an accurate manner. Personally I think that, same as RL social systems, adding a secondary and tertiary economy to nullsec space would spur social change in a way that framing proven best practices regarding game mechanics in a moral context never will (ie: You're jerks who charge people to rent space, stop being jerks and then 0.0 will be fixed).

lol wuuuut?! you can't be serious.....


oh wait of course you aren't you are a Goon

I don't think the bolded part is so far from the reality. In the end you indeed do what someone else *allows* you to do. If you go beyond that, then you are in trouble. Your freedom has a range. That's not direct "dictating" but indirectly it still is.