Intergalactic Summit

At no point have I made the argument that intervention against the Guiristas by the response fleet was out of line. Honestly, I don't even have a problem with someone declaring them guilty after the fact for their acceptance of aid from Pirate forces. Personally, I think some consideration of the fact that they made their decision "under fire" when one tends to not have the time to fully consider every consequence past immediate survival is in order. But I digress.

Here is my issue: Why was IDA attacked by the Caldari Providence Directorate in the first place? So they're "considered venal" and "barely tolerated" (I was finally able to bring up the appropriate corporate profile, by the way Stitcher) by the Megacorps. I get it. Their profile also clearly says "Caldari State." Since when did "happily selling" your service to the highest bidder become a practice worthy of extrajudicial attack within the State?

This has none of the hallmarks of a legitimate coporate censure within normal Caldari business practices. Just look at this recent audit and dissolution of the Wiyrkomi Honor Guard. Shady as I think that whole incident seems, there was at least some show of public disclosure and due process. The same could be said of the Home Guard intervention against Caldari Constructions. CC was in breach of numerous contracts with multiple Mega-corporations, giving them legitimate cause to intervene. Where is any proof of such misconduct by IDA?

So, instead of even a facade of normalcy we have a situation where the CPD is conducting orbital strikes on the assets and personel of a Caldari State member Corporation. Let me reemphasize that, as I gather Stitcher missed Pilot Soter's point earlier. It is not the impact of the bombardments that's in question. Obviously there is a difference between siege rounds and precision ordnance, as there is a big difference between civilian population centers and corporate facilities owned by mercenaries. What's at issue is the justification used for these attacks. Gallente Nationalists justified shelling Caldari Civilians because of a political dispute over seccession. Is being politically opposed to the Provists now being used as justification for attack by Heth's brute squad?

Would you be able to link me to the full and total disclosures of all operations conducted by the Special Department of Internal Investigations of the Federal Intelligence Office or at the very least tell me if it is in fact possible for a Federal citizen to file a Freedom of Information request about an organization that operates outside the scope of the law and is beholden only it seems to President Roden?

No?

Perhaps one must often accept that relevant authorities can and will withhold information regarding their operations if they deem it necessary and in the national interest.

No need to throw stones when you're in the glasshouse as they say.

I understand your concerns, but can't you understand that you're shouting at the wrong people? We are the pilots who attended a fragmentary order to scramble in whatever we had to hand and report to a fleet action between the Gurista and CalNav forces supposedly supporting the CPD.

I would put it to you that in our places with, say Serpentis ships over one of your worlds, you would have shot first and asked questions a very distant second.

I can answer questions on the engagement and the reason why our Fleet Commander called 'Weapons Free' but I cannot tell you why something I have no knowledge about allegedly happened. Neither can anyone else with access to this channel.

Miss Vero, you're doing exactly what I've cautioned against earlier in the thread and speculating ahead of your evidence.

Your laws are not ours - orbital bombardment and even the deployment of heavy armour against corporate assets is perfectly legal in the State in appropriate circumstances. this was true before the CPD came into existence.

As Tuulinen-haan just made clear, we don't know enough about the situation to have an informed opinion. Your system may be to assume the worst and start demanding answers. Mine is to assume that there may well have been a damn good reason (an assumption reinforced by the Guristas involvement) that we're simply not privy to, yet.

If the CPD and navy are hitting a mercenary corporation, and that mercenary corporation goes on to request aid from the Guristas, the first question I have is to wonder who the mercs were working for and what they were doing while on contract. I will have that question, but the fact is that I don't know if due process was followed or not, I don't know if Intara really were involved in criminal activity constituting a threat to the State, I don't know what was at that facility, I don't know the motives, I don't know the bigger picture, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.

I try not to form opinions on subjects I don't understand. I am neither defending nor condemning the CPD's actions because I do not have sufficient information on which to form an educated opinion. I will remain neutral on the subject until otherwise able, and even when I become able, I will most likely keep my opinion to myself until asked for it.

If this can be independently verified, the State has a great deal of explaining to do.

Of course Guristas sources would claim this. I'd like to remind everyone to the Statement on behalf of the Caldari Navy issued here.




To you?
How delightfully self-important.

An awful lot of Jaiji see fit to discuss State activity in this thread, without realising one simple fact; We don't answer to Jaiji filth.

This is the reason we flipped off the Federation, and will continue to be the reason for every State citizen to have a duty of absolute loyalty to their mandated betters in the corporate hierarchy. The foreign menace as represented by 'do-gooder' intentions masking attempts to undermine our resolve, morale and way of life is only one form of insidious psychological warfare aimed to try and foment treason such as that the actions of IDA represent.

Stand strong citizens, capsuleer or baseliner, and listen to Jaiji words only to analyse what poison they are laden with so we may better defend ourselves against them. You who swear to protect the State, or who owe your lives to it by virtue of being born to and raised by the corporate system, remember this; IDA represent a shame worse than death. Better they had been obliterated and forgotten, than to bear the name 'Guri' into their twilight years.

Loyalty will be rewarded, dissent will not be tolerated.

Won't it? Quite a lot of Caldari dissent all the time. Tibus Heth was one such dissenter. But in this matter, I'm less than inclined to take the word of a Gurista. If no one remembers, they also asked Verone to cooperate with the Nation attacks on the Cluster.

Given such, Gurista claims are...less than credible.

Everyone has an agenda. That's just the way the works.

And who would you recommend carry out the verification?

I appreciate the understanding. Let me clarify again that I'm not criticizing the actions of the pilots who responded, or the decision to engage Guiristas forces by the FC.

If I'm "shouting" at anyone, I'm shouting at those people in this discussion that refuse to engage in any critical assessment of the CPD.



You're a fool. I'd warn you that if the IDA was attacked without just cause and you let that stand that you risk the same fate yourself. Clearly, though, you're exactly the kind of bootheel licking scum that will be marching lock step with the Provists into oblivion.

I take comfort in the knowledge that as idiotic as you are, the vast majority of the State Citizenship are decent people who value solidarity with their Caldari brethren over the hate Tibus Heth and his provists have for anyone of Gallente blood.



So, lets examine this in context. There are currently massive military operations being undertaken by CPD and CalNav forces throughout secure Caldari State territory. The nature and purpose of these attacks is initially unknown. A CalNav spokesperson makes a statement amounting to "nothing to see here, internal security, but trust us we're good guys and this may be a threat to the whole cluster!" A few hours later the first information about any of the targets of one of these attacks breaches the communications blackout.

Instead of rogue drones, or Gallente SpecOps, or whatever the target is a Caldari State corporation. They happen to be a Merc corp. Stitcher seems to think this distinction is important, as he continues to bring it up. Since private military corporations are perfectly legal within the State, however, that fact is hardly sufficient justification for them to be attacked.

Your contention is that there could be a perfectly legitimate reason for these actions. That under normal circumstances there are checks and balances against abuse, that the Caldari Navy and the Caldari Business Tribunal would intervene if there was cause. Unfortunately, it is patently obvious that these are not normal circumstances. The buildup of forces is unprecedented as a response to any previous internal security operation, indeed the only previous event that necessitated this level of force mobilization was the buildup before the One Day War. Unfortunately, the subversion of institutions like the CBT and the Caldari Navy are exactly the things that would lead to attacks on the Caldari people by its own government.

It is true that drawing conclusions from these circumstances is an exercise in speculation. The problem here is not that some of you are willing to accept the explanations of your authorities. The problem is that you are willing to accept no explanation from them and infer that "all is well." I could understand that outlook before this Mito Incident, your government told you this was an operation against a legitimate threat, and that the Caldari people were not the target, the Caldari way is to accept that.

Now, however, you know that at least one target was a Caldari State Corporation.