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Remove ability to Refine Loot or the ability to Remote Rep

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Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2011-10-25 03:23:00 UTC
Increase the need of miners. It's unfair for us to have been dealing with this issue alone and THEN get smacked in the flipping face by the release of Incursions and the ability to make over a billion isk in 1 day by combat pilots who "Risk" against easy NPCs by having a few buddies remote rep them.

So either give them the "Risk" they want or give us our entire profession back. Make us useful. Make us needed. Give us a reason to exist.

Stop catering to jerk offs in combat ships and help your economy players a little?

At the very least upgrade our mining boats to have teeth, or ways to escape being easy gank targets. Give us something to reduce our risk or increase our income just like your doing for the carebear PvE'rs.


Trying to advertise this game as realism is Balogne. Give miners the monopoly on minerals or GTFO
General Sauron
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-10-25 03:44:18 UTC
Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel......
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-10-25 06:21:01 UTC
Add sources of Zydrine and Megacyte to high sec then, so we can make all the sub capital T1 stuff.


And while we're at it, balance out the resource distribution in low/null sec.


I don't like the idea of non refinable modules... and I don't want to see the meta 2-4 items disappear.

So.... I'd rather see mining ships buffed.
It could also be combined with tougher belt rats (esp in high sec) that your mining barge drones can handle, and provide extra ISK/loot for the miners


*maybe* lower the ISK payout in missions, and increase LP to compensate.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#4 - 2011-10-25 08:09:33 UTC
umadbro!

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2011-10-25 09:05:11 UTC
Go cry me a river you little pathetic miner

Truth is miners like you are at the bottom of the food chain you are little more than scum you think eve revolves around you and your life is so hard and unfair because of us "jerk offs" trying to kill you all the time.

Let me tell you something us "jerk off's" is where the money is at if all of you pathetic little cowardly miners suddenly quit and left the industry to us eve would be a better place with a damn site less tears too.

And before you say it the answer is YES you are scum as you are far too weak and pathetic not to be called scum instead of trying to manipulate the markets or muscling in for a piece of the pie you come here and whine and winge about it.

Although as a "jerk off" i have found a new target to remove from eve enjoy the ganking

PS. By any chance is your alt called original man
Vorpheus
Three Sword Inc
#6 - 2011-10-25 10:35:13 UTC
great idea... more miners, more untanked exhumers with t2 rigs Lol
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-10-25 11:14:51 UTC
Belrend Coregaul wrote:
Increase the need of miners. It's unfair for us to have been dealing with this issue alone and THEN get smacked in the flipping face by the release of Incursions and the ability to make over a billion isk in 1 day by combat pilots who "Risk" against easy NPCs by having a few buddies remote rep them.

So either give them the "Risk" they want or give us our entire profession back. Make us useful. Make us needed. Give us a reason to exist.

Stop catering to jerk offs in combat ships and help your economy players a little?

At the very least upgrade our mining boats to have teeth, or ways to escape being easy gank targets. Give us something to reduce our risk or increase our income just like your doing for the carebear PvE'rs.


Trying to advertise this game as realism is Balogne. Give miners the monopoly on minerals or GTFO


Null sec botting is the only way to go, adopt or die? Lol
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#8 - 2011-10-25 11:21:40 UTC
Just, this once, could you "break the fourth wall" and let us know if you're trolling?

I would feel bad insulting someone whose rational thought processes lead them to these conclusions.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#9 - 2011-10-25 12:57:34 UTC
Removing the ability to remote rep would render Sleeper sites in C4 and up impossible to do, so that's a pretty poorly thought out idea.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Sphynix
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#10 - 2011-10-25 13:18:55 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Removing the ability to remote rep would render Sleeper sites in C4 and up impossible to do....

It would, however, make PoS warfare a bit more interesting. I wonder how many incapped guns you could have floating outside the shields before the lag killed the server?

On a slightly different note to the OP, if you know how to make 1 bil a day "risk free" then why don't you. After all it would seem that you think mining takes more time, is more risky and requires more skills.
So just do what it is that the others do and make more isk.

Solution presented.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#11 - 2011-10-25 13:21:42 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Removing the ability to remote rep would render Sleeper sites in C4 and up impossible to do, so that's a pretty poorly thought out idea.


And Incursions
And level 5 missions
And it would dumb down PVP
And it removes a way of helping newer players run missions
And it would make carriers useless
And it would stop you repping a POS. Or the modules. Or COs (incoming)
Adn it would remove a ship class
And it would make many PVP encounters never actually happen

But, according to the market research of one idiot, would "fix mining."

the tl;dr of this is "CCP please fix mining for me because I can't think of other ways to make ISK"

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2011-10-25 14:41:17 UTC
OP I think the word you are searching for is baloney.

Which neatly sums up your post.

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Mukuro Gravedigger
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2011-10-25 15:15:21 UTC
I would not mind if CCP took another look at the Scrapmetal Processing skill. As a player learns to become more proficient in this skill, they should be able to obtain "higher" level of minerals and in greater numbers compared to someone that has no training in the skill. As an example,

A player without the skill refines a module and gets back some tritanium and perhaps a partially melted nugget.

A player with one level of this skill refines a module and gets back tritanium, some pyerite, and a touch of mexallon, along with a large melted nugget if other minerals are still within it.

A player with two levels of this skill refines a module and gets back the full allotment of tritanium, most of the pyerite, some mexallon, and a touch of isogen, with a rare chance of pulling out some nocxium, along with a medium melted nugget if other minerals are still within it.

And further down the chain... these nuggets would be sold on the market as "Partially / Large / Medium (etc.) Melted down (item)" so a potential buyer could decide if there would be anything worth refining (if they had a high enough skill proficiency) to purchase and refine the rest.

Just a thought on the matter, without being so brash. The current "loss" difference between an unskilled player and a player that trained this skill makes the skill almost worthless to train.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#14 - 2011-10-25 15:16:09 UTC
1/10. You got the rant down pat, but you tried way too hard on the material. Stupid carebears wouldn't think of complaining about RR hurting mining, intelligent ones know how stupid that is, lol.
Party Lips
Calamitous-Intent
#15 - 2011-10-25 16:05:16 UTC
such stupidity deserves wardec & ransom
Velicitia
XS Tech
#16 - 2011-10-25 16:41:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
*sigh*

Mining in itself isn't broken. Resource distribution is to a degree:

Hisec -- too many mineral types, too easy to get minerals...
Lowsec -- not enough mineral types, what you do get isn't better by hisec enough to really have a draw...
Nullsec/W-space -- OK for the most part.


What I mean by the above is that there needs to be a GOOD reason for miners to leave hi and travel to low/null/w-space.

Currently in Hisec you can get the following (negating scanned sites):
Where - Rock (Refines to)
1.0/All - Veldspar (1000 Tritanium)
1.0/All - Scordite (833 Tritanium, 416 Pyerite)
0.9 Gal/Min; 0.7 Cal - Plagioclase (256 Tritanium, 512 Pyerite, 256 Mexallon)
0.9 Am/Cal - Pyroxeres (844 Tritanium, 59 Pyerite, 120 Mexallon, 11 Nocxium)
0.7 Am - Kernite (773 Mexallon, 386 Isogen)
0.7 Gal/Min - Omber (307 Tritanium, 123 Pyerite, 307 Isogen)

Heading to 0.4 or 0.3 , you can get
Race - Rock (Refines to)
Amarr - Jaspet (259 Tritanium, 259 Pyerite, 518 Mexallon, 259 Nocxium, 8 Zydrine)
Caldari - Kernite (773 Mexallon, 386 Isogen)
Gallente - Jaspet (259 Tritanium, 259 Pyerite, 518 Mexallon, 259 Nocxium, 8 Zydrine)
Minmatar - Kernite (773 Mexallon, 386 Isogen)

0.2 or 0.1 adds in
Race - Rock (Refines to)
Amarr - Hemorphite (212 Tritanium, 212 Isogen, 424 Nocxium, 28 Zydrine)
Caldari - Hedbergite (708 Isogen, 354 Nocxium, 32 Zydrine)
Gallente - Hemorphite (212 Tritanium, 212 Isogen, 424 Nocxium, 28 Zydrine)
Minmatar - Hedbergite (708 Isogen, 354 Nocxium, 32 Zydrine)

You can't get any Megacyte until you go to nullsec (Arkonor, Bistot, Spodumain). Lowsec is crap, since all the minerals are available in nearly as good quantities in hisec, with nearly zero risk either through ore or mission trash reprocessing.

Hisec needs nerfed in that you shouldn't be able to easily get useable quantities of mid- and high-end materials. Don't really touch Tritanium/Pyerite, reduce Mexallon/Isogen (25-33% or so? Plag would then give about 168-192 Mex, Omber would give about 200-230 Iso, Pyroxeres would give about 79-90 Mex, Kernite would give about 510-579 Mex and about 254-289 Iso), reduce Nocxium by a little (i.e. you get 8-10 units per refine) .

Lowsec needs boosted in that you should be able to get Mexallon/Isogen nearly as easily as you can get Tritanium/Pyerite in hisec (boost the mex/iso whilst reducing trit/pyer, as you can still mine veld/scord/etc in low). Reduce Nocxium a little, maybe to 2xx (Jaspet) or 400 (Hemorphite) units per refine?, Zydrine looks OK, maybe reduce to 20 (Hemorphite) or 25 (Hedbergite)?

Leave nullsec/w-space alone (sans altered rock compositions) ... POSSIBLY have a +15% or +20% nullsec-only variant of the lowends (Veld, Scord, Plag) to compensate for the reduced yields.

Obviously, you can find the mining sites by probing a system, and get rocks from other regions or lower security space.

edits -- clarity, and I can't spell...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Noriko Mai
#17 - 2011-10-25 17:48:04 UTC
Serious Question:

Where you get more minerals per hour? Mining in HS or 0.0 Ratting/Havens/Sanctums and then refine all the loot?

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Velicitia
XS Tech
#18 - 2011-10-25 19:01:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Mining minerals per hour depends on a number of factors, including but not limited to:

1. how many other people are mining (i.e. how depleted are the rocks already)
2. what're you mining in
3. fleet bonuses, and how good?

Maxxed bonuses let you mine about 2650 m3 per minute (~159000 m3 per hour) in a hulk (sans drones, they're crap anyway). If you can sustain this yield, you can mine about 4,75m Tritanium per hour (~15 million ISK) from vanilla Veldspar.

Missions likely get you less per hour, depending on the loot drops. The difference is that with a mission, at the end of an hour, I have ~30 million ISK in bounties and mission rewards on top of the trash drops. So I can throw the trash drops into a station can, and refine when it suits me (days or weeks later). A miner doesn't have this additional income to buy stuff with -- their income source IS the minerals.

Edit -- I'm assuming that we're talking about HS Mining. Low/Null you can get around 3k m3 per minute with the rorqual.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-10-25 19:12:49 UTC
Stop mining.
Start running missions/incursions

Mineral production goes down

ISK faucet turned on higher

Mineral prices rise

Allow this trend to continue until it is worth your time to mine.

Its your own fault for continuing to waste your time mining when the compensation is so little.


If it doesn't work, then obviously what you are doing is so easy a bot can do it better, and perhaps you don't deserve much profit from doing it.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#20 - 2011-10-25 19:25:52 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Stop mining.
Start running missions/incursions

Mineral production goes down

ISK faucet turned on higher

Mineral prices rise

Allow this trend to continue until it is worth your time to mine.

Its your own fault for continuing to waste your time mining when the compensation is so little.


If it doesn't work, then obviously what you are doing is so easy a bot can do it better, and perhaps you don't deserve much profit from doing it.


missions suck Smile. I don't mine for ISK (that's what market PVP is for... ), I mine so I have something to do whilst market PVPing. Though, that's gone down now that ship spinning has come back Lol

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
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