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The Infrastructure of EVE Online

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Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2013-01-28 18:45:18 UTC
Speaking of surplus power I wonder if it would even be remotely technically possible to have players themselves contribute computing power to EVE during heavy loads. Obviously it would have to be calculations on things that wouldn't be considered a security risk for EVE yet are vital enough to warrant this.

If by some miraculous means this would be possible one could technically eliminate all kinds of lag cause more players in a fleet fight would equal more processing power. The new bottleneck would probably then be bandwidth instead considering the increased amount of data flying back and forth between Tranq and clients.

Meh...just musing on possible futuristic utopian solutions so don't mind me too much P
Danica Kaliinen
Kronos TEchnologies
#62 - 2013-01-28 19:09:01 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Speaking of surplus power I wonder if it would even be remotely technically possible to have players themselves contribute computing power to EVE during heavy loads. Obviously it would have to be calculations on things that wouldn't be considered a security risk for EVE yet are vital enough to warrant this.

If by some miraculous means this would be possible one could technically eliminate all kinds of lag cause more players in a fleet fight would equal more processing power. The new bottleneck would probably then be bandwidth instead considering the increased amount of data flying back and forth between Tranq and clients.

Meh...just musing on possible futuristic utopian solutions so don't mind me too much P

Not to mention the security requirements, which alone would negate any performance gains.

Xenuria is the troll candidate for CSM, right?

Malcanis for CSM8
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#63 - 2013-01-28 19:21:15 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
Kalle Demos wrote:
Instead of assuming, why not do some research on what they are using and how they are coding, then analyze it, then write a report on why they fail.

Dont assume, it makes your face look fat


Well this is why I created this thread. I don't want to make assumption when I can have facts and figures.



Yes because every thing written on the internet is fact. Well on these forums anyhow Roll
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#64 - 2013-01-30 17:42:00 UTC
What still worries me as a huge EVE fan looking to invest years in skilling toons, is that a published strategy for a scalable and dynamic resource allocating architecture & plan to get there does not appear to exist...

This troubles me...10 years in and there is still game affecting lag in the infrastructure & architecture at all?

"A CFC Hel died, apparently unable to turn his hardeners on due to TiDi. Well before this time, TiDi had hit the maximum, ten percent, and the lag was horrible; it took a carrier pilot nearly ten minutes to refit a smartbomb. Local was well over a thousand and climbing; it would peak at over two thousand and seven hundred."

and...

"As the CFC skyteam put it, lowsec has the worst hardware of the cluster; huge fleet fights should never be held there. Elise commented that the lag also affected his target calling as travel time for drones, such as fighter bombers, must be taken into account"

and...

"Vahilior JEFFRAIDER
Thanks for the video link, its brilliant. By the time I showed up all the titans were warped off and TIDI + lag made everything unplayable, great to see this perspective" http://themittani.com/news/asakai-aftermath-all-over-cobalt-moon

CCP, what is your strategy for a dynamic resource allocating architecture that will prevent this from happening in the future, especially as player base grows? How can you claim to be a single shard sandbox MMO when said sandbox has intolerable performance management issues, and like cat pooh hidden just under the surface of said sand, the more people that enter the sandbox causes more people to get pooh between their toes?

Would you like to know more?
Ghazu
#65 - 2013-01-30 17:59:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ghazu
Xenuria wrote:
Due to recent events I think it is important to bring some focus to the hardware and software making New Eden what it is today.
I can remember in the past 3 years the servers were upgraded and EVE was down for a long time but it came back better than before. Maybe we need another upgrade or at least a better understanding of the daily problems CCP faces.


-The Questions-


  • What are the specs of the current infrastructure the hosts EvE Online?

  • Is there something better out there that could be bought or built?

  • If something better dose not exist what prevents CCP from buying more of what they have currently and using that to supplement the load?

  • What kind of software is used to facilitate the hosting of EVE? Can it be improved upon at a core level? Does something better exist?


If these questions could be answered I think it could cause a drop in the angry threads and misinformed posters while at the same time cultivating more informed and constructive conversations on the subject.


  • Do I even know what I am talking about?

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Mire Stoude
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2013-01-30 18:06:34 UTC
Arm-chair IT professional checking in.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#67 - 2013-01-30 18:10:40 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Xenuria wrote:
Pohbis wrote:
Xenuria wrote:
-The Questions-

  • What are the specs of the current infrastructure the hosts EvE Online?
I think this is the current TQ hardware;
TQ level up

EDIT: Already posted I see :)


If that is accurate than the infrastructure IS out of date and CAN/SHOULD be upgraded.


Dear lord.

This from a CSM candidate? Why do I suddenly fear for the future of EVE?

Just a quick question but: are you aware that having 1k players slugging it out in a playable fashion was something unheard of a mere couple of years ago?

Are you in fact even remotely aware of the history of the constant hardware upgrades for EVE?

And your suggestion is a simple "CCP, throw moar money on hardware cuz EVE pokemon pilots keep pushing the boundaries!!!"

Common sense. Buy some.



You really should do more research before posting.....

And many people hardly see an improvement from the old days of constant crashing, and the new days of turning a 1 hour battle into a 8 hour battle using Tidi...

Oh, and Tidi affecting everyone equally....is a myth......Lol


Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Ginger Barbarella
#68 - 2013-01-30 18:13:17 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:

CSM candidate without access to a basic Google search?


No, just another lazy-arse "gimme my Easy Button" board poster. wouldn't be surprised if OP is the same loser that's been trying to get into the Chinese server.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#69 - 2013-01-30 18:17:26 UTC
Maybe CCP will start talking about using Infiniband again to distract the unwashed masses and armchair IT specialists.

http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=682229



☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2013-01-30 18:57:25 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
What still worries me as a huge EVE fan looking to invest years in skilling toons, is that a published strategy for a scalable and dynamic resource allocating architecture & plan to get there does not appear to exist...

This troubles me...10 years in and there is still game affecting lag in the infrastructure & architecture at all?

"A CFC Hel died, apparently unable to turn his hardeners on due to TiDi. Well before this time, TiDi had hit the maximum, ten percent, and the lag was horrible; it took a carrier pilot nearly ten minutes to refit a smartbomb. Local was well over a thousand and climbing; it would peak at over two thousand and seven hundred."

and...

"As the CFC skyteam put it, lowsec has the worst hardware of the cluster; huge fleet fights should never be held there. Elise commented that the lag also affected his target calling as travel time for drones, such as fighter bombers, must be taken into account"

and...

"Vahilior JEFFRAIDER
Thanks for the video link, its brilliant. By the time I showed up all the titans were warped off and TIDI + lag made everything unplayable, great to see this perspective" http://themittani.com/news/asakai-aftermath-all-over-cobalt-moon

CCP, what is your strategy for a dynamic resource allocating architecture that will prevent this from happening in the future, especially as player base grows? How can you claim to be a single shard sandbox MMO when said sandbox has intolerable performance management issues, and like cat pooh hidden just under the surface of said sand, the more people that enter the sandbox causes more people to get pooh between their toes?


I was there in a Nemesis and concluded that with the tidi and lag you would had to think in terms of what will my actions do in x amount of time into the future instead of what are my actions going to effect now.
Hrothgar Nilsson
#71 - 2013-01-30 21:24:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrothgar Nilsson
Pohbis wrote:
Xenuria wrote:
If that is accurate than the infrastructure IS out of date and CAN/SHOULD be upgraded.
I think the max for current server solutions from IBM is 3.6Ghz, not counting the super-awesome-only-used-on-wallstreet kinda stuff.

The current ones on TQ are 3.3Ghz. I'd rather not have CCP upgrade the entire cluster for a mere 300Mhz increase.

If they're still using Xeon X5260s, there's a lot of room for pretty massive improvement at a modest price.

As far as a "mere 300Mhz increase", we should all know by now MHz ad GHz mean nothing without proper context, for example the 3.3GHz dual-core x5260s aren't the equivalent of the newer 3.3GHz quad-core E3-1245 or the 3.3GHz six-core E5-1660. The eight-core E7-2830 @ 2.13 GHz has three times the performance of a dual-core x5260 3.3GHz.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#72 - 2013-01-30 21:26:31 UTC
Something involving lots of hamsters in treadmills and gallons of tears from WoW players who ragequit five minutes into the trial.
Josef Djugashvilis
#73 - 2013-01-30 21:41:36 UTC
On a happier note, Xenuria is about as likely to win a place on CSM 8 as I am.

This is not a signature.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#74 - 2013-01-30 21:53:40 UTC
Just because I didn't see anyone post it, here is a video from last FanFest 2012 titled Growing EVEs infrastructure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj_hHIwInwk&list=SPDDA989F65CD6E98A&index=12

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#75 - 2013-01-30 22:23:24 UTC
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
The eight-core E7-2830 @ 2.13 GHz has three times the performance of a dual-core x5260 3.3GHz.


But the difference is less if the critical part of the software can't run in multicore/multithread.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2013-01-30 22:26:41 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Xenuria wrote:
Pohbis wrote:
Xenuria wrote:
-The Questions-

  • What are the specs of the current infrastructure the hosts EvE Online?
I think this is the current TQ hardware;
TQ level up

EDIT: Already posted I see :)


If that is accurate than the infrastructure IS out of date and CAN/SHOULD be upgraded.


Dear lord.

This from a CSM candidate? Why do I suddenly fear for the future of EVE?

Just a quick question but: are you aware that having 1k players slugging it out in a playable fashion was something unheard of a mere couple of years ago?

Are you in fact even remotely aware of the history of the constant hardware upgrades for EVE?

And your suggestion is a simple "CCP, throw moar money on hardware cuz EVE pokemon pilots keep pushing the boundaries!!!"

Common sense. Buy some.



You really should do more research before posting.....

And many people hardly see an improvement from the old days of constant crashing, and the new days of turning a 1 hour battle into a 8 hour battle using Tidi...

Oh, and Tidi affecting everyone equally....is a myth......Lol




200 player fleet battles occur - causes lag and crashes. Whine is produced. Hardware is upgraded.

500 player fleet battles occur - causes lag and crashes. Whine is produced. Hardware is upgraded.

1000 player fleet battles occur - causes lag and crashes. Whine is produced. Hardware is upgraded.

Is your analytical and logical comprehension good enough to see where I am going with this?
Hrothgar Nilsson
#77 - 2013-01-30 22:53:04 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
The eight-core E7-2830 @ 2.13 GHz has three times the performance of a dual-core x5260 3.3GHz.


But the difference is less if the critical part of the software can't run in multicore/multithread.

You're saying the critical part of EVE's server-side software can't utilize multiple cores?

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#78 - 2013-01-30 23:05:42 UTC
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
The eight-core E7-2830 @ 2.13 GHz has three times the performance of a dual-core x5260 3.3GHz.


But the difference is less if the critical part of the software can't run in multicore/multithread.

You're saying the critical part of EVE's server-side software can't utilize multiple cores?



It's pretty well known (I thought) that CCP's server and client code is not multi-threaded.



☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Azrin Stella Oerndotte
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#79 - 2013-01-30 23:39:56 UTC
The mac client is actually multi-threaded, probably has something to do with the way eve is ported. But because of the same reason any gain is utterly destroyed due to the resource heavy "cheat" they are using.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2013-01-30 23:48:30 UTC
Xenuria wrote:
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
Xenuria wrote:
Pohbis wrote:
Xenuria wrote:
-The Questions-

  • What are the specs of the current infrastructure the hosts EvE Online?
I think this is the current TQ hardware;
TQ level up

EDIT: Already posted I see :)


If that is accurate than the infrastructure IS out of date and CAN/SHOULD be upgraded.


Dear lord.

This from a CSM candidate? Why do I suddenly fear for the future of EVE?

Just a quick question but: are you aware that having 1k players slugging it out in a playable fashion was something unheard of a mere couple of years ago?

Are you in fact even remotely aware of the history of the constant hardware upgrades for EVE?

And your suggestion is a simple "CCP, throw moar money on hardware cuz EVE pokemon pilots keep pushing the boundaries!!!"

Common sense. Buy some.


So let me get this straight, your argument is that I am a bad CSM candidate because I am trying to better understand eve?
You also seem to be making the case that the infrastructure is good enough and should not be improved upon.




Arrogance and Ignorance so often go hand in hand....

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde