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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Regarding Tracking Speed and Accuracy

Author
Cystus Arumar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-01-30 01:40:16 UTC
Hello! I've been playing Eve for a little over a week now and I love it. Unfortunately, I decided to go with Minmatar when I first started the game and I've come to loathe their aesthetic. I'm fairly certain that I'm going to switch to Amarr, but I'm looking at a comparison between energy weapons and projectile weapons and I'm a bit confused. It seems that the Minmater tech II variants have a higher rate of fire, tracking speed and accuracy, and damage modifier than the Amarr tech II turrets. I've only looked at the 'small' class of turrets thus far. I see that the optimal range for the Amarr weaponry is a bit higher, but the falloff from the projectiles would make that a minimal difference I'd think.

Anyways, I'm incredibly new and ignorant about a lot of aspects of the game, so could someone please explain how the projectile weapons don't completely outclass the Amarr energy weapons?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#2 - 2013-01-30 02:12:46 UTC
First, I think it's worth considering what optimal and falloff mean. As long as someone is within optimal and not moving, you will be doing "full damage". Once someone is at optimal + 1/2 falloff you're down to about 80%, and at optimal + falloff you're at about 40%. Those are maximums, for when nobody is moving.

Furthermore, as people move out you don't have to move your gun quite so far - so as you might expect tracking becomes less of an issue further out. There's been a concept floating around of (optimal + 1/2 falloff) * tracking to try to get a handle for how well the ship "effectively tracks" at range, but really most people just use EFT and look at the graphs.

Another thing that affects damage application is resists. If you shoot someone with 1000 damage and they have 50% resists, you'll only do 500 damage. With 75% resists, 25% damage. The implication here is that EM damage (read: EMP and all lasers) is a fairly weak damage type in PVE and against armor tanks.

In the end: projectiles have some rudimentary damage projection and deal better damage up close. Lasers have high "EFT" DPS and project damage really well.

I'm partial to lasers, personally.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#3 - 2013-01-30 02:18:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Projectile turrets have a short optimal and a really long falloff. AutoCannons are used entirely in falloff. i.e. projectiles have lower quality hits, and can miss more because of range. It takes 10 seconds to change ammo, and there are only 3 basic ranges.

Lasers have a longer optimal, and a very short falloff. They are used entirely in optimal, so have very high quality hits, and never miss because of range. To help with this, crystals can be loaded to change range instantly (there are 8 basic ranges, though many only use multifrequency and scorch).

Then there are resists to factor in. Lasers only do EM and thermal, with less thermal the longer the range (multifrequency is 58% EM 42% thermal, radio is 100% EM). Only Caldari are weak to EM, and Minmatar have high EM resist. [On the NPC side, Sansha, Blood Raiders, and Rogue Drones are weak to EM.]

Minmatar ships are quick and agile, relying on their speed, but less resilient compared to slower and less agile Amarr. Minmatar ships often suffer from split weapon systems, with often only a damage bonus to one of them.

EDIT: Liang beat me by several edits.
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#4 - 2013-01-30 18:36:24 UTC
I use mostly projectile weapons, so I am of course biased towards them, but I've tinker with lasers and went back to projectiles. My reasons are:
No capacitor need. If you are being nueted you can still shoot back.
Damage choice: You can, with the right ammo, do whatever kind of damage you want to. Reloading does take ten seconds though.
Damage over ranges: You can change your ammo to adjust your ranges (exchanging range for damage), but in most cases I personally only use the short range ammo (EMP, Fusion, Phased Plasma, etc) and fight a lot more in falloff.

Damage is
Optimal or closer 100% damage (if you can hit)
Optimal plus Falloff 50% damage
Optimal plus Falloff plus Falloff (2x falloff) 0% damage.

So, if you had a laser and a gun and both did 100 points of base damage (and this is EXTREMELY simplified)
The laser had an optimal of 4000m and a fall off of 500m and the gun had an optimal of 800m and a falloff of 4000m

Distance - Laser Damage - Gun Damage (roughly)
500m - 100 - 100
1000m - 100 - 97
2000m - 100 - 85
4000m - 100 - 60
4500m - 50 - 52
4800m - 20 - 50
5000m - 0 - 47
6800m - 0 - 25
8800m - 0 - 0

There are a lot of other little details as well. Damage is determined by the ammo type's listed damage x the weapons damage modifier. The ranges in the chart above can be adjust because of the ammo type (short range projectile ammo reduce the range by 50%, so using EMP ammo means I won't do any damage until I get within 4400m . The laser using multifrequency would also suffer the 50% range issue, so no damage beyond 2400m.)

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet

Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#5 - 2013-01-30 18:37:27 UTC
For more info on how turrets really work check the link in my sig, one of the guides explains it.
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#6 - 2013-01-30 19:19:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Lost Greybeard
You're comparing, what, pulse lasers to Autocannons?

Your impressions are pretty much correct, but you underestimate how much a longer optimal can help. Additionally, remember that there is ammunition that is only compatible with T2 guns, and Amarr has some of the "best" both outright and because it can be switched out with no cooldown in combat, and Minmatar has some of the worst in that T2 AC ammo is not a huge improvement over faction ammo for the most part.

There's really not any type of weapon that's outright superior or inferior to another type of weapon in the game right now, the last cycle of re-tuning fixed most of the imbalances. What weapon you use will alter how you fly, though, there's a lot more of the figurative "lining up a shot" with Amarr and more of the "spray more bullets 'till something hits" with Minmatar.

(The fact that minmatar T2 isn't a huge upgrade over T1 for the most part is actually considered an _advantage_ of minmatar, since you've got a bigger chunk of your potential power accessible at lower cost and sp levels.

EDIT: Also note that the previously posted "damage" is actually damage*hit chance, i.e. damage averaged over time. Unless something fairly dramatic has changed, the damage of each given shot is pulled randomly off a chart once it's been established that you've landed a hit, and hit chance is the primary thing altered by falloff/optimal, as with tracking.