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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Capital Destroyers, Cruisers, and Battleships.

Author
Zhao Wuhan
Liquicity Industrys
#1 - 2013-01-29 20:44:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhao Wuhan
Capital Destroyers - Support Class

Uses Large Weapons & Missiles - 8 High Slots (3 Turret / 3 Missile hard points) + 5 Support Hard-points
BONUS:
AMARR - 100% bonus to large energy weapon damage
CALDARI - 100% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo damage
GALLENTE - 100% bonus to large hybrid weapon damage
MINMATAR - 100% bonus to large projectile weapon damage

New Item & Old Updates:

Sentry Gun - Just like a AA gun (10000 Rounds Capacity) - Auto Fires when activated to aggressed or with a negative security frigate/destroyer class ships. Range is up to 30KM. Poor Tracking + Spread Fire! Any Frigate or Destroyer going 800 m/s will a greater chance of survival.
Defender Missile - Set as a Support Hard point - protects from incoming attack to you and or other players in fleet.
Bomber Launcher - Set as a Support Hard point - Deploy Bombs

Capital Destroyers are also faster than normal capitals. Up to 100-150 M/S.



Capital Cruiser - Support Class (Electronic Warfare)

Uses Large Weapons & Missiles - 6 High Slots (4 Turret / 4 Missile hard points)
BONUS:
AMARR - 100% bonus to large energy weapon damage
CALDARI - 100% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo damage
GALLENTE - 100% bonus to large hybrid weapon damage
MINMATAR - 100% bonus to large projectile weapon damage

Has a Fighter Bay Capacity Limit to 10 Only [Unable to operate other drones; only can fly Fighters]

AMARR - 5% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range and 10% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount per level
CALDARI - 5% Bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per level
GALLENTE - 5% bonus to Warp Scrambler and Warp Disruptor range per level
MINMATAR - 5% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness and 10% bonus to Stasis Webifier range per level



Capital Battleship - Assault Class (Little Bigger than a Dreadnought)

Uses XL Large Weapons & Citadel Missiles - 6 High Slots (3 Turret / 3 Missile hard points)
BONUS:
AMARR - 100% bonus to X-Large energy weapon damage
CALDARI - 100% bonus to Citadel cruise missile and Citadel torpedo damage
GALLENTE - 100% bonus to X-Large hybrid weapon damage
MINMATAR - 100% bonus to X-Large projectile weapon damage

Known for Capital Killers - Does not use Siege Mode - Used for home defense

High DPS + Armor/Shield Defenses...

CON: Uses twice as much fuel as a Dreadnought while has half the jump range of a Dreadnought.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#2 - 2013-01-29 20:51:06 UTC
Simply why?

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--

Zhao Wuhan
Liquicity Industrys
#3 - 2013-01-29 20:53:40 UTC
to become versatile in fleet battles... atm Capitals are meant to kill other capital mostly... having a destroyer and cruise sizes will be useful against battleship fleets and smaller..
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#4 - 2013-01-29 21:07:23 UTC
Actually not really, carriers engage all ships alike provided it has the proper drones and dreads other than the Phoenix and the naglfar's missiles hit bses pretty consistently.

The capital battleship would not only make dreads obsolete but also be Op in the process, the destroyer would not only be faster than tier three battleships but it would also put their dps to shame while going faster, as for the support class ypu would basically be putting major dps behind curses, rooks, etc. Which i see as being a bad thing

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--

Zhao Wuhan
Liquicity Industrys
#5 - 2013-01-29 21:18:09 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
Actually not really, carriers engage all ships alike provided it has the proper drones and dreads other than the Phoenix and the naglfar's missiles hit bses pretty consistently.

The capital battleship would not only make dreads obsolete but also be Op in the process, the destroyer would not only be faster than tier three battleships but it would also put their dps to shame while going faster, as for the support class ypu would basically be putting major dps behind curses, rooks, etc. Which i see as being a bad thing


Well capital battleships will cost more to move around versus than dreads. Maybe making it 3-4x more fuel than a dreadnought will prevent it uses to only home defenses and or smaller jumping range. It will take a longer time to move these ships into battle which is more time and money wasted for the DPS and Tanking capabilities.

For the destroyer the more speed is better.. 50-75 M/S should be sufficient? But at least its not using XL weapons. Maybe reduce it to 3 turret and missile hard points with 5 support hard points maybe? Taking out the 20% bonus per level. So it be like 6 large turrets or missiles with supports.

As for the cruiser... do the same thing to remove the 20% bonus per level but keep the 4 turret and missile hard points which makes it to 8 guns. Also maybe reducing all of the electronic warfare stats by 50-75% what it is now that I posted. Making the current cruisers still overall useful.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#6 - 2013-01-29 21:37:54 UTC
Exactly why do you compare cruisers, destroyers, and battleships with these supposed capital counterparts?

The fuel reqs difference on the battleship make no difference for any decent sov holding alliance, and the difference in time to move will surely be offset by the higher dps without having a siege mode.

As for the destroyer it would basically be a waste of time as other more specialized ships already do it but require assistance to be useful in most situations and similar for the cruiser

Any new capitals added have to be profoundly new, not something rehashed and unbalanced

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--

Zhao Wuhan
Liquicity Industrys
#7 - 2013-01-29 21:46:14 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
Exactly why do you compare cruisers, destroyers, and battleships with these supposed capital counterparts?

The fuel reqs difference on the battleship make no difference for any decent sov holding alliance, and the difference in time to move will surely be offset by the higher dps without having a siege mode.

As for the destroyer it would basically be a waste of time as other more specialized ships already do it but require assistance to be useful in most situations and similar for the cruiser

Any new capitals added have to be profoundly new, not something rehashed and unbalanced


I guess but they would still be used. I think my capital destroyer is something new on the line as what a normal destroyer should be... but my cruiser not really. But this is just ideas... working together to see a possibility to create something versus just shutting it down by what you think. Well nothing will get down. That is why I come here giving my idea to work with others to explore the possibilities to make it happen. Was the Titan unbalanced when it first came out... hell yes... but now everyone uses a damn titan. lol
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2013-01-29 21:57:46 UTC
Zhao Wuhan wrote:
to become versatile in fleet battles...

History Lesson:
Dreadnoughts used to be able to field 5 heavy drones with plenty of drone bay space to spare. The Moros used to have a bonus giving it 20% drone damage per level.
CCP wanted to make capitals more vulnerable to sub-capitals because a fleet of dreds could effectively swat away most sub-capital forces by themselves without [much] assistance. So the ability to field drones was removed entirely in order to require more "mixed" fleets of capitals and sub-capital ships.
The same thing was drone for largely the same reasons with Titans and Supercarriers.
Zhao Wuhan
Liquicity Industrys
#9 - 2013-01-29 22:02:25 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Zhao Wuhan wrote:
to become versatile in fleet battles...

History Lesson:
Dreadnoughts used to be able to field 5 heavy drones with plenty of drone bay space to spare. The Moros used to have a bonus giving it 20% drone damage per level.
CCP wanted to make capitals more vulnerable to sub-capitals because a fleet of dreds could effectively swat away most sub-capital forces by themselves without [much] assistance. So the ability to field drones was removed entirely in order to require more "mixed" fleets of capitals and sub-capital ships.
The same thing was drone for largely the same reasons with Titans and Supercarriers.


True; but then again capital destroyers and cruisers will have more HP than a BS and less than a dread... they still do not use XL guns or do a higher capacity of DPS than normal BS if you read my posts from before in changing it up.

Just like a fleet of ships can take out a carrier or dreadnought easy... these will be less to handle with even if the capital is solo.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-01-29 22:20:56 UTC
No more capitals.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#11 - 2013-01-29 22:35:04 UTC
Zhao Wuhan wrote:
these will be less to handle with even if the capital is solo.

Anything can be killed if it is solo. Even the most overpowered ship ever created can be killed if faced with high enough numbers.

The problems start when you take powerful standalone ship and make a fleet composed entirely of them. Then factor in existing mechanics.

Right now I see your ships as the ultimate "end-game" fleet.
Capital Destroyers (with their point defense) wipe out any sub-capital force... Capital Cruisers (with their Ewar) render traditional capital forces ineffective... Capital Battleships (with the damage dealing ability) wipe out capitals, super capitals, POSs, and IHubs... and all of them do not need to commit to a battle (like normal capitals do now) so they can just jump in, do what then do, and jump out a few minutes later before anyone can muster a response.

Then factor in support from Triage or Pantheon-fit Carriers.

What these ships do (or rather, one in particular) is effectively isolate the capital class from sub-capital "interference"... which puts people who don't get one of these ships at a disadvantage.
Titch Gunnarson
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-01-29 22:47:20 UTC
again people forget that we don't need more capitals
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#13 - 2013-01-30 06:00:12 UTC
So, that destroyer capital...

Similar speed as a BS, loads more dps, mega tank by comparison... And using larde weapons means it will chew through sub-caps...

Sorry, my eyes just started to bleed...
Sinigr Shadowsong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-01-30 06:56:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinigr Shadowsong
Those ships will also be OP for PvE.
Capital Destroyer: 4 Large turrets with double +100% damage bonuses will have great dps while being extremely cost-effective ammo-wise. Also 4 support hardpoints for Sentry Guns that will obliterate all tackling frigs without even paying attention or caring about scan resolution.
Capital Cruiser: 4 Large turrets with double +100% damage bonuses, 2 Sentry Guns against frigs and 10 Fighters / Bombers or just plain Sentries for additional damage. Minmatar one even gets bonuses to web/painter to help with DPS projection. This will single-handly put Machariel+Carrier to shame.
And they are very safe. With auto-sentrys, drones, bonused webs, Large-size guns (bearable tracking) atop of capital-sized ehp they would be able to destroy small-medium roaming fleets on their own.
Zhao Wuhan
Liquicity Industrys
#15 - 2013-01-30 13:27:48 UTC
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
Those ships will also be OP for PvE.
Capital Destroyer: 4 Large turrets with double +100% damage bonuses will have great dps while being extremely cost-effective ammo-wise. Also 4 support hardpoints for Sentry Guns that will obliterate all tackling frigs without even paying attention or caring about scan resolution.
Capital Cruiser: 4 Large turrets with double +100% damage bonuses, 2 Sentry Guns against frigs and 10 Fighters / Bombers or just plain Sentries for additional damage. Minmatar one even gets bonuses to web/painter to help with DPS projection. This will single-handly put Machariel+Carrier to shame.
And they are very safe. With auto-sentrys, drones, bonused webs, Large-size guns (bearable tracking) atop of capital-sized ehp they would be able to destroy small-medium roaming fleets on their own.


I have updated my post; should read my other posts so u can know the updates but check it again.