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Clone upgrades in depth article. Interesting read.

Author
Its Over 9000
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-01-29 17:16:48 UTC
While I am not sold on the insurance part, I find the rest of the article about the clone upgrades very compelling.

CLONE UPGRADE BILLS: A PAINFUL THROWBACK

Marlona goes into three parts of how clone upgrades impacts the game and she gives good reason why they need to be addressed, if not removed all together.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#2 - 2013-01-29 17:53:42 UTC
Oh look...a themittani.com link...this will be informative and in no way biased. What else would we expect from the foxnews of the eve world. I will grab popcorn and a snuggie and settle in for a nice long read.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-01-29 18:04:12 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Oh look...a themittani.com link...this will be informative and in no way biased. What else would we expect from the foxnews of the eve world. I will grab popcorn and a snuggie and settle in for a nice long read.


If it's well-written and stirs up discussion, we'll publish it. If you disagree with the piece, feel free to write up another piece to counter it and submit it to us.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#4 - 2013-01-29 18:11:38 UTC
Andski wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Oh look...a themittani.com link...this will be informative and in no way biased. What else would we expect from the foxnews of the eve world. I will grab popcorn and a snuggie and settle in for a nice long read.


If it's well-written and stirs up discussion, we'll publish it. If you disagree with the piece, feel free to write up another piece to counter it and submit it to us.


I said some very nice things there and didnt say I disagreed. As for a write up by me, well as im sure the majority would be entertained, the minority who reads it, and then keels over with blood pouring from their ears, would probably have me up to my armpits in wrongful death lawsuits brought on by their greiving next-of-kin.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

addelee
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2013-01-29 18:35:14 UTC  |  Edited by: addelee
I agree with most of it with the exception of ship insurance. I've never understood the concept of the clone, or at least the cost of it, as it seems an unnecessary evil and benefits no one.

I'd personally experiment with PvP fittings a lot more (on a clone with zero implants) as the cost wouldn't be 50mill per clone with a dubious fitting.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#6 - 2013-01-29 18:38:26 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Oh look...a themittani.com link...this will be informative and in no way biased. What else would we expect from the foxnews of the eve world. I will grab popcorn and a snuggie and settle in for a nice long read.


Accusing Marlona Sky of shilling for goons in general and mittens in particular is like accusing Simon Weisenthal of being a clost nazi.

But yes, don't read the article, you might learn something and there's no insurance against that.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Eli Green
The Arrow Project
#7 - 2013-01-29 18:43:49 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Andski wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Oh look...a themittani.com link...this will be informative and in no way biased. What else would we expect from the foxnews of the eve world. I will grab popcorn and a snuggie and settle in for a nice long read.


If it's well-written and stirs up discussion, we'll publish it. If you disagree with the piece, feel free to write up another piece to counter it and submit it to us.


I said some very nice things there and didnt say I disagreed. As for a write up by me, well as im sure the majority would be entertained, the minority who reads it, and then keels over with blood pouring from their ears, would probably have me up to my armpits in wrongful death lawsuits brought on by their greiving next-of-kin.


Unsuccessful At Everything for CSM Big smile

wumbo

ShadowStalkerwings
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-01-29 18:45:00 UTC
I enjoyed that read, would a clone system like the current insurance system (pay once for so many weeks/days) be a better solution for people who wish to pvp?? One fixed sum for a long period of time (4weeks/8weeks) compared to clicking new clone every time someones podded costing them more isk for pvp'n, would reduce the clicking fest a lot and all CCP (plus community) would have to do then is come up with a valid cost for each sp level range.

Less clicking, less having to remember to get a new clone every time you're podded and notifications when your clone insurance was running out.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#9 - 2013-01-29 18:45:23 UTC
addelee wrote:
I agree with most of it with the exception of ship insurance. I've never understood the concept of the clone, or at least the cost of it, as it seems an unnecessary evil and benefits no one.

I'd personally experiment with PvP fittings a lot more (on a clone with zero implants) as the cost wouldn't be 50mill per clone with a dubious fitting.


You lose your clone every time you lose your ship? And never wear implants?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-01-29 19:16:31 UTC
Its Over 9000 wrote:
While I am not sold on the insurance part, I find the rest of the article about the clone upgrades very compelling.

CLONE UPGRADE BILLS: A PAINFUL THROWBACK

Marlona goes into three parts of how clone upgrades impacts the game and she gives good reason why they need to be addressed, if not removed all together.

Truth be told I included the insurance part to deal with the loss of the clone ISK sink issue. If transfering the ISK sink from clones to insurance is more destructive and discouraging towards PvP, especially for younger players, than the sink can be easily be moved to more appropriate locations. Places like industry job costs which are virtually nothing.

The rest of the article about the justification for clone upgrade cost removal I still believe in strongly. The cost per clone works off an exponential curve formula. So while it seems small for a few years on the skill points to cost ratio; the ratio goes insane very fast later. More issues with the current system is the sever lack of options at later levels. There is twenty four levels to pick from. The time gaps between ech one available is also on the exponential curve formula. One moment your paying 30 million for a clone and the next minute you have to pay 45 million. Granted the 45 million clone covers more skill points, but you are paying for skill point coverage on skill points you don't have. 150% jump in cost.

I also stand by the my points on the discouraging factor of clone costs. Players do factor in clone costs when PvPing. In some cases it causes no PvP to happen. One thing I want to make clear is in no way am I for risk free combat. Again people are assuming that with age comes wealth. This is completely inaccurate. Most player play on the weekend. Everyone knows this simply by the log in screen each day.

And creating more alts having to retraining core skills is a unhealthy alternative.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-01-29 19:21:20 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Oh look...a themittani.com link...this will be informative and in no way biased. What else would we expect from the foxnews of the eve world. I will grab popcorn and a snuggie and settle in for a nice long read.

Aside from the editors note; every word in that article was written by me.

I loathe goons and have vocally expressed it, well... everywhere.

And yet my article was published as if I was a goon director submitting an article. Food for thought.
Danu Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
#12 - 2013-01-29 19:30:19 UTC
Game mechanics and systems should not be changed to cater for 'Weekend Warriors'.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-01-29 19:34:01 UTC
Danu Charante wrote:
Game mechanics and systems should not be changed to cater for 'Weekend Warriors'.

Except it would benifit everyone. Blink
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#14 - 2013-01-29 19:40:37 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Oh look...a themittani.com link...this will be informative and in no way biased. What else would we expect from the foxnews of the eve world. I will grab popcorn and a snuggie and settle in for a nice long read.


Dont get me wrong here, the shear amount of soreness in the posterior region that this comment has caused is making me blush. I I will break it down so that you can all see it was a compliment.


Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Oh look...a themittani.com link


was pointing out it was a link. nothing but pure unadulterated truth in that statement, said with genuine surprise.

Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
this will be informative


It was. Truth again with no snarky overtones.

Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
and in no way biased


See? I said it wouldnt be biased. And it wasnt. So accusing me of accusing her of being a goonlover...well that wasnt even implied.

Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
What else would we expect from the foxnews of the eve world


Fox news is an upstanding news organization. If they werent, they wouldnt be on TV right? Just like E! news and TMZ.

...and at the end I did say "I will grab popcorn and a snuggie and settle in for a nice long read", and I did. Really I did. It was awkward to do that in the middle of the workplace and I recieved a warning about it, but I did it anyways.


That all being broken down to show that there was nothing but pure compliments in there and in no way sarcasm, I will now direct you to an online pharmacy where you can all get some sauve for those sore rumps. (here)

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-01-29 19:46:28 UTC
Danu Charante wrote:
Game mechanics and systems should not be changed to cater for 'Weekend Warriors'.

True and they aren't. The fact it benefits weekend warriors is irrelevant. It should be changed because it's a nonsensical piece of crap and everyone who looks at it critically seems to come to similar conclusions. The major differences between players regarding this issue are about how it should be changed and not if it should be changed.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2013-01-29 19:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Just... stop posting. You're impeding important discussion here.
Unsuccessful at everything, including trolling.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Danu Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
#17 - 2013-01-29 19:53:46 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Danu Charante wrote:
Game mechanics and systems should not be changed to cater for 'Weekend Warriors'.

Except it would benifit everyone. Blink


So would 100% reimbursement free ship insurance, doesn't make it a good idea though.
If 'Weekend Warriors' have an issue flying things they can't afford, I'm sure they would have no problem skilling cheap T1 alts during the week, when they don't have time to play.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-01-29 19:55:00 UTC
Danu Charante wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Danu Charante wrote:
Game mechanics and systems should not be changed to cater for 'Weekend Warriors'.

Except it would benifit everyone. Blink


So would 100% reimbursement free ship insurance, doesn't make it a good idea though.
If 'Weekend Warriors' have an issue flying things they can't afford, I'm sure they would have no problem skilling cheap T1 alts during the week, when they don't have time to play.

Requiring them to do that is utterly ******** game design.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Danu Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
#19 - 2013-01-29 20:02:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Danu Charante
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Danu Charante wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Danu Charante wrote:
Game mechanics and systems should not be changed to cater for 'Weekend Warriors'.

Except it would benifit everyone. Blink


So would 100% reimbursement free ship insurance, doesn't make it a good idea though.
If 'Weekend Warriors' have an issue flying things they can't afford, I'm sure they would have no problem skilling cheap T1 alts during the week, when they don't have time to play.

Requiring them to do that is utterly ******** game design.


Yeah, that's why WoW is so successful. Zero death penalty makes exciting PvP.
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
#20 - 2013-01-29 20:12:09 UTC
Agreed, clones and insurance are a joke.
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