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[Retribution 1.1] Armor Tanking 1.5

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Captain Semper
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#1001 - 2013-01-28 17:08:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Semper
Irya Boone wrote:
And no more skill to train to balance something obvious.
make the changes affected By current skills in Game because it's unfair to be at the same level than shield tanking we have to learn more ?

Agree. Its ridiculous to add new skill if you just can reduce mass of 1600 by 25% and mass of other plates by 45%.
Btw i talk much with my FC about "let's use 800mm plates on HAC, they would faster!" And know what? It not an option. You need 2 800mm plates for getting similar EHP. And it doesn't cost that. You get few m\s amd lose tonn EHP for HAC.
I will never fit thorax in armor tank becuase it is totaly uneffective for now. Thorax was created for roam and in roam you need speed, burst damage and lit tank.
So... Where i should use "new" 800mm plates?
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#1002 - 2013-01-28 17:33:07 UTC
Captain Semper wrote:

I will never fit thorax in armor tank becuase it is totaly uneffective for now. Thorax was created for roam and in roam you need speed, burst damage and lit tank.
So... Where i should use "new" 800mm plates?


Dual web rax is bar none the best rax for solo/small scale pvp.

The increase in speed and dps of the shield ship means jack **** when you can be easily killed by a t1 frig, just saying...
Captain Semper
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#1003 - 2013-01-28 18:28:33 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Captain Semper wrote:

I will never fit thorax in armor tank becuase it is totaly uneffective for now. Thorax was created for roam and in roam you need speed, burst damage and lit tank.
So... Where i should use "new" 800mm plates?


Dual web rax is bar none the best rax for solo/small scale pvp.

The increase in speed and dps of the shield ship means jack **** when you can be easily killed by a t1 frig, just saying...

Well 2 LSE, i invul, EM rig and 2 core ext rigs - and you have pretty nice shield pool with not bad resists.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1004 - 2013-01-28 19:07:42 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Captain Semper wrote:

I will never fit thorax in armor tank becuase it is totaly uneffective for now. Thorax was created for roam and in roam you need speed, burst damage and lit tank.
So... Where i should use "new" 800mm plates?


Dual web rax is bar none the best rax for solo/small scale pvp.

The increase in speed and dps of the shield ship means jack **** when you can be easily killed by a t1 frig, just saying...


Well i'd agree if 1v1 was what Eve is about but it's not.
Why would you pick the highest damaging weapon system in the game and make it as slow as an orca (can warp mine in less than 10sec without rigs/implants/nanos TBH), limit your dmg+range application and fit webs when you should have rapiers to pin stuff down for you and logistics in your gang?

I agree with you about the frig stuff in 1v1 scenario but in gangs and roams whatever is dead can't hit you and can't harm you: TANK WITH GANK and let tackle job to tacklers.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Luc Chastot
#1005 - 2013-01-28 22:08:31 UTC
CCP Fozzie, now that you're at it (fixing armor tanking), is there something you could do with Layered Platings? They are so terribly bad, that not even fail-fitters use them.

The only things I can think of that could find them useful are caps, but even then, EANMs could prove to be a better option.

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Weasel Leblanc
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1006 - 2013-01-29 06:11:08 UTC
Luc Chastot wrote:
CCP Fozzie, now that you're at it (fixing armor tanking), is there something you could do with Layered Platings? They are so terribly bad, that not even fail-fitters use them.

The only things I can think of that could find them useful are caps, but even then, EANMs could prove to be a better option.

As long as we're on the subject of Armor Modules That Don't Get Used, is there any way we can get non-energized resist plates to have more of a reason to be fit than "I ran out of CPU"? Not a buff to the resists themselves - that would just be trading one "Outright Better Than" for another - but some other benefit. Maybe a small percent HP bonus or an improvement to repper efficiency or something.
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1007 - 2013-01-29 06:24:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Akturous
Idea, I think no one would object to:

Turn the Energized Regenerative Membrane mod (called armour layering membrane now) into one that's equivalent to a shield boost amp. Since everyone who did previously use that mod (aeon, avatar, maybe archon) now uses the reactive armour hardener, this would simultaneously make a **** mod useful and buff all active armour tanking. Oh and change it's name back to regen, since that would fit with the rep amp theme.

Thoughts?

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#1008 - 2013-01-29 06:26:51 UTC
Weasel Leblanc wrote:
...is there any way we can get non-energized resist plates to have.... an improvement to repper efficiency ....
That would actually be an interesting bonus to put on modules.
Sinzor Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#1009 - 2013-01-29 07:46:23 UTC
Looks like we're not getting any extra bonuses on existing mudules, reposting from the other thread:

CCP Greyscale wrote:
We're not, in general and with exceptions, fans of multi-function modules. EVE fitting is about trade-offs, not about having your cake and eating it.
Hun Jakuza
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1010 - 2013-01-29 08:30:41 UTC
Captain Semper wrote:
Irya Boone wrote:
And no more skill to train to balance something obvious.
make the changes affected By current skills in Game because it's unfair to be at the same level than shield tanking we have to learn more ?

Agree. Its ridiculous to add new skill if you just can reduce mass of 1600 by 25% and mass of other plates by 45%.
Btw i talk much with my FC about "let's use 800mm plates on HAC, they would faster!" And know what? It not an option. You need 2 800mm plates for getting similar EHP. And it doesn't cost that. You get few m\s amd lose tonn EHP for HAC.
I will never fit thorax in armor tank becuase it is totaly uneffective for now. Thorax was created for roam and in roam you need speed, burst damage and lit tank.
So... Where i should use "new" 800mm plates?



+1
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1011 - 2013-01-29 09:10:52 UTC
Captain Semper wrote:
Irya Boone wrote:
And no more skill to train to balance something obvious.
make the changes affected By current skills in Game because it's unfair to be at the same level than shield tanking we have to learn more ?

Agree. Its ridiculous to add new skill if you just can reduce mass of 1600 by 25% and mass of other plates by 45%.
Btw i talk much with my FC about "let's use 800mm plates on HAC, they would faster!" And know what? It not an option. You need 2 800mm plates for getting similar EHP. And it doesn't cost that. You get few m\s amd lose tonn EHP for HAC.
I will never fit thorax in armor tank becuase it is totaly uneffective for now. Thorax was created for roam and in roam you need speed, burst damage and lit tank.
So... Where i should use "new" 800mm plates?



Because having 2 ewar mids is totally overrated and all that..

Badness.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1012 - 2013-01-29 09:50:55 UTC
Captain Semper wrote:

Well 2 LSE, i invul, EM rig and 2 core ext rigs - and you have pretty nice shield pool with not bad resists.


Cool if that works for you, I personally wouldn't even let that in the fleet because you don't have any kind of tackle, can't fit Neutrons and it has the sig of a battleruiser.

800mm Rax looks awesome after the mass reductions.

.
evXetwvi
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1013 - 2013-01-29 09:59:10 UTC
Well, if armortank vs shieldtank giving so many troubles, make armor modules for medium slots, and with some tweaks of pg/cpu, +- medium and low solts, it will eliminate that problem once and forever.
What you think? Its just a ideia.
Weasel Leblanc
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1014 - 2013-01-29 10:18:35 UTC
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
Looks like we're not getting any extra bonuses on existing mudules, reposting from the other thread:

CCP Greyscale wrote:
We're not, in general and with exceptions, fans of multi-function modules. EVE fitting is about trade-offs, not about having your cake and eating it.


...He says that, and yet the ASB is a thing.
Lebaneur
Tribal Core
#1015 - 2013-01-29 10:37:39 UTC
As far as I could tell nothing to test yet on Sisi after todays patch... No new mods, skills or changes apparent.
Any ETA on geting these into testing?
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1016 - 2013-01-29 10:55:30 UTC
Fozzie,

could you fix the error in the Armor Resistance Phasing skill as well? Currently lvl V skill causes you to consume more cap than lower levels (10% cycle time reduction, 5% cap usage). It should be 10% both.

.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#1017 - 2013-01-29 11:05:09 UTC
Lebaneur wrote:
As far as I could tell nothing to test yet on Sisi after todays patch... No new mods, skills or changes apparent.
Any ETA on geting these into testing?


The news bulletin on the character screen says 31st is mass test day. That's when is my guess.

Friends
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#1018 - 2013-01-29 12:57:35 UTC
Lebaneur wrote:
As far as I could tell nothing to test yet on Sisi after todays patch... No new mods, skills or changes apparent.
Any ETA on geting these into testing?



As far as I can tell the power grid changes to medium and large armor reppers have gone through however the pen change on active armor rigs is still speed instead of grid pen. This seems a bit counter productive to me...
Mund Richard
#1019 - 2013-01-29 13:08:10 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
The easiest solution is just not to make it a repairer in its own right, but a repair amplifier, perhaps an "Ancillary Nano Pump". When active it cuts the cap use of the repaired to a fraction of normal, and increases the speed and repair amount by enough to achieve the desired burst tanking effect. Divorcing the paste from the reps allows you to set the consumption rate to the desired time frame, allows the use of the rep at its full normal value without having to worry about extra fiddly buttons that don't exist yet, and allows the benefit to scale with whatever repairer you are using from t1 to officer mods

So basically, a shield boost amplifier, that is an active module, consumes charges, and messes with multiple stats of the repair modules?

How good would it have to be, to fit in one of the 6 lows of the Hyperion?
How good would it have to be, for the pilot of the Hyper feel it justified for that long minute when he has only 5 lows having any effect?
Plus it would have to be non-OP on several repper fits, nor too bad on single rep ones. I think this is where the problem really is.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Freighdee Katt
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1020 - 2013-01-29 13:12:07 UTC
Weasel Leblanc wrote:
Sinzor Aumer wrote:
Looks like we're not getting any extra bonuses on existing mudules, reposting from the other thread:

CCP Greyscale wrote:
We're not, in general and with exceptions, fans of multi-function modules. EVE fitting is about trade-offs, not about having your cake and eating it.


...He says that, and yet the ASB is a thing.

Yeah, I love how they saw the light on neut-immunity, oversized fits, and multiple OP modules per hull only AFTER they put the ASB in, and now have no plans to change it. Oh, but they "learned their lesson" there, and now they "won't make the same mistakes again" with the AAR. So apparently the answer to every wrong turn they made with shield tanking in the last round is to pre-nerf everything they do to armor in this round, just to "balance it all out."

EvE is supposed to suck.  Wait . . . what was the question?