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CCP: Where did you get the idea about NPC AI changes?
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Mamucha
Rookie Empire Citizens
#81 - 2013-01-26 11:51:49 UTC
People complaing against changes becouse they hate changeing their confort zone... We see same thing after every major patch when something in game mechanics changes... Lol

Personally i welcome more realistic NPC AI. At least now its not stupid enough not to shoot drones that are killing it slowly, but can now target them and kill them off. EvE is not supposed to be easy, but harsh and cold as space itself...

Heck maybe CCP could do some co-operation with some AI scinetist. Eves perfect platform for it testing. Daily reboots, so you can test new code everyday. Tons of people running missions and killing NPC´s by tons...

We were recruiting.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#82 - 2013-01-26 12:13:32 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Large Drones WILL die now without fail. Useless utterly.

This was not a well thought out change at all.


I did an angels extra in a rattlesnake and they never even went for my berserkers. launch bouncers to start and only drop the zerkers when ships get into their orbit ranges. I use "f" to get drones to engage and "shift+f" to recall drones. super easy to scoop sentries, and when heavies are less than 10km away they get back pretty fast.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#83 - 2013-01-26 12:21:43 UTC
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:
Sekhmet Snotra wrote:
From what I can tell, the new AI is much better for some droneboats than the old one. Try using sentries instead of heavies, So far I have only noticed the elite cruisers occasionally shooting them, and they have enough hp to last quite well.

The only downside to the new AI that I see is that it is much more difficult to bring newbs into your missions, as they will be shot a lot more than they used to.

I personally don't really care about the AI change, as it doesn't really affect how rattlesnakes work...


So you're saying instead of all drones being viable, only sentry are now? Is this an improvement for you?


sentries don't have travel time, omg heavy drones are sloooow, they were almost all I used before the changes. light drones work fine for frigs at close range (hey if they are outside 30km gardes can hit them no problem) and in angels extra they didn't go after my berserkers at all, again key thing close range, heavy drones are slow!

medium drones have been pretty much useless since they nerfed the tracking speed because no one ever used light drones, tbh I kinda miss carrying nothing but hammerhead IIs.

did I ever mention heavy drones are slow? the only use they had before the ai change was afking, because when you are afk you don't mind so much that they are slow, plus they can hit everything if you just drop sentries they have issues with some targets.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#84 - 2013-01-28 10:21:24 UTC
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ramius Castus wrote:
Finally realize a whole style of game play has been eliminated


AFK isk grinding was never a style of play since you can't play if you're AFK. CCP have now made it so you can't profit from not playing.


This is not the point of this thread and I am pretty sure not the reason for the changes.


Perhaps not the intent of the thread, but that is the message. Scores of former AFK drone-boat mission runners upset that they can no longer generate isk by not playing.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#85 - 2013-01-28 11:10:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Ramius Castus wrote:
Finally realize a whole style of game play has been eliminated


AFK isk grinding was never a style of play since you can't play if you're AFK. CCP have now made it so you can't profit from not playing.


This is not the point of this thread and I am pretty sure not the reason for the changes.


Perhaps not the intent of the thread, but that is the message. Scores of former AFK drone-boat mission runners upset that they can no longer generate isk by not playing.



Don't let the tiny little insignificant detail that AFK drone boating is easier get in the way the of an ill-informed post Blink


For me, the new AI has (as I've posted previously) resulting in my not bothering with drones anymore because they don't being enough to the party to be worth their risk and the micromanagement is a sufficient pain in the arse to no tangible benefit. Result? I don't use them. Net effect? 20-30 second speedbump per pocket whist I reload precision weapons and vaporise frigs.

It's had about the same effect as putting the acceleration gates a hundred or so km out would have - a hassle which adds nothing to the gameplay experience. Doesn't even target AFK gameplay so....I can't help but wonder why? What was it supposed to add? Whack-a-mole with the drone HP bar?


/shrug. Makes no odds to me, but I can understand why people are not amused. It's a bit of a shame that a fun little mechanic/gameplay option is not worth entertaining now.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#86 - 2013-01-28 12:05:32 UTC
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:


Not only that but it's broken. I mean it's doable but it's a teeth pulling experience. EWAR is out of hand and flying a drone boat is just a hassle, you basically have to babysit your drones and even then they have a tendency to pop faster that you can recall.



I betcha never did the guristas Assault in a Marauder and triggered the whole room justfor fun. xD

Seriously tho, what is everyone complaining about? the new AI at least makes the missions less of a release the drones and wait for them to finish the room while eating sandwiches and smoking pot... wait now I get how that's bad, I want a roll back too.
-..-

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#87 - 2013-01-28 12:09:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:
So you're saying instead of all drones being viable, only sentry are now? Is this an improvement for you?

Short-range weapon was never optimal for missions, and heavy drones are effectively brawler's choice tbh.
With your claimed drone skills you'd know better...

And really, of all PvE content L4s got it relatively easy.

Debora Tsung wrote:
I betcha never did the guristas Assault in a Marauder and triggered the whole room justfor fun. xD

An observation: I have never been jammed in Guristas assault since certain after-Retribution patch. I even stopped bothering with ECCM. It's like jammers have gone entirely...

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#88 - 2013-01-28 12:33:52 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:

Debora Tsung wrote:
I betcha never did the guristas Assault in a Marauder and triggered the whole room justfor fun. xD

An observation: I have never been jammed in Guristas assault since certain after-Retribution patch. I even stopped bothering with ECCM. It's like jammers have gone entirely...


lol, that bad? :)

Truth be told, I didn't bother much with missions since last year. I always thought the new AI should make it so that the mission NPCs use more ECM instead of less.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Darius Brinn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2013-01-28 12:54:49 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Azitek wrote:

I dunno, it sounds like you're complaining about difficulty to me.



Concerning drones, it's beyond difficulty. 100% chance of death for them. That's an issue.


Yup. This last month I have lost like two Hobgoblin II's, man. I feel your pain. I can't go take a shower and make a sandwich while my drones munch through the NPCs anymore.

AND...I had to fit a remote repper for the Sentries. THAT'S A HIGH SLOT!

RED CROSSES ARE THERE TO BE TURNED TO ISKIES QUICKLY AND EFFICIENTLY AND THEY SHOULD NOT TARGET MY DRONES, JAM ME, DAMPEN ME, DISRUPT ME, NEUT ME, AND ACTUALLY I SEE NO REASON WHY THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO TARGET ME AT ALL, FFS CCP ROLLBACK YOUR GODDAMNED SERVERS BACK TO INCURSION IF NEEDED, BUT LEAVE MAH DRONES ALONE!
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#90 - 2013-01-28 13:41:10 UTC
The whole argument is tiring.

Someone make a FRAPS, preferably with a range of drones, so this can be put to bed - one way or the other.
Austneal
Nero Fazione
#91 - 2013-01-28 14:57:10 UTC
My alt uses a drone boat for PvE... I have no problems with it.
The moment the rats' targetting box goes from red to yellow: recall > wait 2 seconds > redeploy

Sounds like the OP is a whiner and should go back to WoW
Aren Madigan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2013-01-28 15:10:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Aren Madigan
I've kind of noticed increased problems with my drones going from L2s to L3s, so I'm not sure how much worse it gets with L4s... my impression though is that it actively encourages the use of drone modules and multiple classes of drones... kind of makes control range less useful though. I mean, what's the point of being able to send them out to over 50 km if they are just going to get massacred? On the otherhand, AFK missioning is stupid... would be nice if drones didn't just flat out stop after killing a target though, really gotta time retargets or they WILL get instagibbed if they are being shot at.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#93 - 2013-01-28 15:11:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Austneal wrote:
My alt uses a drone boat for PvE... I have no problems with it.
The moment the rats' targetting box goes from red to yellow: recall > wait 2 seconds > redeploy

Sounds like the OP is a whiner and should go back to WoW


So whatcha gonna do when they fix that known bug, and they just blast them to crap when you re-deploy?


That also only works when they're in real close, it just doesnt work well enough if they're beyond about 10km, you find them webbed and dead before they get half way back.

Like I said, not worth the buttons they add to the mission, though I'm not a drone boat user Smile


Edit:

After some monkeying around in a myrm (@BC V) in level 3s, I can confirm my initial thoughts/assessment that light/medium/heavy drones are absolutely dead as a long range weapons platform. Drone link augmentor is a bad joke at this stage. Once you recall/resend them out of the bay often enough, the AI craps up and just wont target them any more - this is the confirmed bug I alluded to. Once that is fixed.....well, best be using sentries.

By the time the UI updated to show the NPCs were no longer targetting me, the hobgob was already into armor - at <10km out. It made it back in structure.

It begs the question - why even bother? Using something else ('cane, drake, whatever) is just so much more fun. I had to slowboat towards rats 80km away until they came close enough that I could bounce drones in and out at will with almost no time loss.

Frankly the experience simply underscores my not bothering to use them in my usual missioning affairs.
Garreth Vlox
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2013-01-28 22:57:36 UTC
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:
@Spurty - I'm not complaining about difficulty. You obviously have reading comprehension issues if you think so and I personally have a friend who teaches remedial English if you're interested! PM me for details.

@Ildryn - I've noticed some of your recent posts are very much the same so I'll do what others do and ignore anything you have to say from now on ;)

@Whitehound - Have you not noticed some of the insane EWAR against certain factions? Like 15+ ships sensor dampening you or perma jamming? Quite a few including myself have.



People have been bitching about rat ECM since rats could ECM, you 're late, by a lot. Now if this were a pvp whine thread I'd tell you to go learn to play, but seeing as how your crying about rats the only suggestion I have is quitting the game. Because if the rats can irritate you enough to **** post like this I can hardly wait to see the forum rage generated after the first time you get ganked in high sec or god forbid podded.

The LULZ Boat.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#95 - 2013-01-29 02:01:48 UTC
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:
It's like a select few of you have this opinion on what EVE PVE should be and screw everyone else who thinks otherwise.


The word you're looking for is "CSM."

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2013-01-29 05:22:11 UTC
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:
Because all I see are complaints.

I would of thought the developers would of received overwhelming data and feedback from players before making such a change since it affects such a large amount of the player base but the majority of the threads are wanting a rollback until it's fixed.

It's like a select few of you have this opinion on what EVE PVE should be and screw everyone else who thinks otherwise. You want it to be more like PVP but if people wanted that then...wouldn't they go and just PVP? Why are you forcing these changes when all the threads on the matter say no thank you.

Not only that but it's broken. I mean it's doable but it's a teeth pulling experience. EWAR is out of hand and flying a drone boat is just a hassle, you basically have to babysit your drones and even then they have a tendency to pop faster that you can recall.

So I ask you: Why the drastic changes and why change it like this? Where did you get your data from that this would be the best way? Why have you re-balanced NPC AI without the rest of the PVE changes that it was obviously intended for?

*Puts flame retardant suit on*


smarter AI is good for the game. Some folks won't like it because for them they want a fast easy ( so mindlessly boring people figure out how to do it afk -- yea I read your comment about babysitting drones --- thinking about all the afk domi pilots that used to go afk to kill NPCs )

mining is still mindless if you want. Barring the occaisional suicide gank, you could really help add to the mineral supply, which would in turn ease inflation.

if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Damn the Man!

... what was I talking about?

nvmd.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2013-01-29 05:36:42 UTC
Baron Dmitri Harkonnen wrote:


Half of the PVE rebalance was introduced (the AI) but the other wasn't (the mission overhaul).




an unfinished expansion in EvE?

say it aint so.

welcome to eve mr. 3 name dude.
LoanWolf Tivianne
Ace's And 8's
#98 - 2013-01-29 06:53:38 UTC
i didnt read one post here but i can tell you where they got it if a game cant evolve and and change it dies i dont know the age of eve its like old tho and stating to gain ground i wouldnt count the devs out just yet because you dont know why they do something doesent mean they dont have a good reason to change it

yea my spelling sucks so do you go back to work school teacher your not wanted here
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#99 - 2013-01-29 06:58:28 UTC
I think people complaining about AI changes are mostly ones who before this did not utter a word in public and would just go on doing their own little thing somewhere, quietly.

If this change made them open their mouths, I call that progress.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#100 - 2013-01-29 07:19:58 UTC
And I'm still waiting for someone to say "drones aren't broken" who doesn't immediately follow it up with "My Dominix and sentries..."

(Which, ironically, was the combo used by all of the alleged AFKers in the first place)

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0