These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Technology Lab

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

goonz killed the server, CCP can we get now a 64 bit multithreaded client and nodes please?

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2013-01-28 17:34:07 UTC
Messoroz wrote:
CCP can easily increase it to 3G with http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb613473%28VS.85%29.aspx

In fact, there are tools you can download that will modify the properties of executables to have windows allocate it up to 4gb.


Careful with modifying the exe, it may not patch correctly later on.
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#62 - 2013-01-28 17:34:49 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
Nerath Naaris wrote:
Seeing the pictures from the fight, I wonder how it would have fared without Drones involved.
If I assume just an average of three Drones for everyone involved, I get a 6 to 8 thousand entities in addition to those present.

Dronebay-jamming bubbles anyone? Twisted

they are called smartbombs.


Yes they might help somewhat but it seems like they were not quite sufficient for that battle, though...

Je suis Paris // Köln // Brüssel // Orlando // Nice // Würzburg, München, Ansbach // Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray

Je suis Berlin // Fort Lauderdale // London // St. Petersburg // Stockholm

Je suis [?]
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#63 - 2013-01-28 17:38:29 UTC
loco coco wrote:
Honestly not sure what you people aren't getting here. Most of the processing would be done by your GPU which would result in FPS drop. But SERVER lag is on the SERVER. Client crashed were from a desync from the server which happened to most systems around Asakai.


lol what?

Multi-threading has nothing to do with the GPU, expect in the case of DX11's deferred rendering stuff.

When running EvE, my GPU is around 5% load and my CPU is around 8%, yet my FPS can get below 60. EvE just doesn't know how to use modern computing resources.

Going to 64bit would be much easier than multi-threading, but we really need both. Non-threaded engines are getting antiquated.
Brandon Syne
Straxus Innovations
#64 - 2013-01-28 17:40:22 UTC
EVE works just fine multi threaded. Let's face it, most of us run more clients than we have CPU cores. It's fine.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#65 - 2013-01-28 17:41:56 UTC
Guys, guys, calm down. As we speak I am putting together a care package of about 300 gently used Commodore 64s to ship to London so ccp can form a network of AWESOME 8-bit computing power. All will be well soon.
Whitehound
#66 - 2013-01-28 17:42:50 UTC
Nerath Naaris wrote:
Ager Agemo wrote:
Nerath Naaris wrote:
Seeing the pictures from the fight, I wonder how it would have fared without Drones involved.
If I assume just an average of three Drones for everyone involved, I get a 6 to 8 thousand entities in addition to those present.

Dronebay-jamming bubbles anyone? Twisted

they are called smartbombs.


Yes they might help somewhat but it seems like they were not quite sufficient for that battle, though...

Then it is time for ... Capital Smartbombs.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Hannah Flex
#67 - 2013-01-28 17:59:16 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Nerath Naaris wrote:
Ager Agemo wrote:
Nerath Naaris wrote:
Seeing the pictures from the fight, I wonder how it would have fared without Drones involved.
If I assume just an average of three Drones for everyone involved, I get a 6 to 8 thousand entities in addition to those present.

Dronebay-jamming bubbles anyone? Twisted

they are called smartbombs.


Yes they might help somewhat but it seems like they were not quite sufficient for that battle, though...

Then it is time for ... Capital Smartbombs.


From most accounts a lot of fighter bombers were eliminated by smartbombing battleships.
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#68 - 2013-01-28 18:54:42 UTC
Brandon Syne wrote:
EVE works just fine multi threaded. Let's face it, most of us run more clients than we have CPU cores. It's fine.


I like your sarcastic pseudo-truth.
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#69 - 2013-01-29 15:50:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ager Agemo
Cat Casidy wrote:
Kiasta wrote:
Ager Agemo wrote:
So I was at asakai and my client crashed after hitting the stupid 2 gigabytes memory limit of 32 bit applications, what good is it for me to have 8+ GB of ram if I cannot use it on the game.

Additionally FPS went downhill as a single core of my processor turboed its way to 5900mhz and then chocked on heat, we need multithreading seriously, and 99% time dilation... multithreading for the nodes too please and automatic reinforcement.


That sucks... I have a laptop with a dualcore celeron processor with only 2GB of ram... and my client was stable. It was laggy, yes but I couldn't tell if it was lag due to the ridiculous 10% dilation or low fps.

exactly the same setup I was playing on last night (well centrino duo @ 1.8 with onboard m965 graphics) when there were 2800 people in system. If your mega computer couldn't handle something my 6 year old craptop was running just fine then the issue is a bottleneck on your side.



you were at max graphics shooting at stuff at the Main battle at 1080p?

I want to see screenshots of that.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#70 - 2013-01-29 15:57:44 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
Correct me please, but the game is written in Python with it's nasty Master Lock thingy (single threaded bottleneck. I think it difficult to build a multithreaded architecture when you are constrained by Pythons limitations. EvE uses something to get around that, but it is inefficient.

But I'm in the same boat : 8G RAM and EvE doesn't use it. Kinda like EvE was originally coded in the bronze age.

Best one yet, yeah let's hope the focus wasn't all on DUST and eve upgrading fell by the wayside.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2013-01-29 16:41:33 UTC
Kalle Demos wrote:
How many people were brought to this blob fest?

Theres no point discussing number warfare without numbers to be ridiculed, tut tut, you guys should know this by now



Local peaked at over 2800 but it seems there were thousands more waiting to get into system.

But it is not just ship count, as the number of modules, fighters, fighter bombers, rounds of ammunition being traded, etc is also a factor in the amount of lag.
xRyokenx
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#72 - 2013-01-29 16:55:26 UTC  |  Edited by: xRyokenx
We can quite clearly see that the Jita node hits TiDi with just people flying in and out. Having the Jita Node say in a battle that we just had would still create 10% TiDi because of what the above poster has just said.

In Jita there mainly people flying, spamming and trading between, 1k people? the other 2K just sit there and this still creates TiDi.

In that low sec capital battle, there was nearly 3k people there, all shooting, 10k-30k Drones/Fighters/FBs AND the server has to cope with all the requests to do with Ship placement, timing all the hits in order etc etc....


I dont think CCP has the hardware there side to be able to come close to coping with this sorta engagement...


Having a few super nodes on hand when a system does hit 10% TiDi, to Hotswap server nodes in and out to help request traffic, but that would be alot of coding BUT would substantially improve fleets.

No one has done it on this scale, but it can be done... lets hope CCP are up for a good challange!
Whitehound
#73 - 2013-01-29 17:06:50 UTC
How many players could fit into a system in the past and before TiDi?

I remember numbers of 500-1000 at which point players began to experience black screens and node crashes.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2013-01-30 18:00:47 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
if you think you can rewrite Stackless Python from ground up, refactor 10 years of patched up code to the original framework, expecting to retain the same functionality it has today, and expect it to do it in this lifetime, please do.

I'd take EVE 2 over DUST and whatever else is in developement anyday.
A friend of mine would bite me for effectively including WoDO on the list, but whatever Big smile

well, EVE 2 was Gemini back in 2004P

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#75 - 2013-01-30 18:55:53 UTC
Hi,

I've moved this to a better forum as it's always good to discuss this sort of thing, but lets clarify a few points:

there's no simple way to make something multithreaded or indeed to just use as much RAM as the system can provide.

The EVE cluster has to work with 32bit data because it supports 32bit clients; All the 64bit goodness in the world is totally redundant when you have to thunk to 32bit at your network layer.

Similarly the 3gb address space switch is not a cure, it's an Operating system change and is one that can actually make things *a lot worse*.

Ultimately, the best programming tricks in the world are only going to help 'so much' when you're trying to render a battle between 2800+ different people; the amount of local address space is simply not a factor in the Server being able to get that much data out to keep the game flowing in real time.

If anyone's interested in optimizing code, then I can strongly recommend reading this:

http://www.agner.org/optimize/optimizing_cpp.pdf

It's largely about C++ but the concepts map to any language that works against the bare metal.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#76 - 2013-01-31 03:28:45 UTC
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Hi,

I've moved this to a better forum as it's always good to discuss this sort of thing, but lets clarify a few points:

there's no simple way to make something multithreaded or indeed to just use as much RAM as the system can provide.

The EVE cluster has to work with 32bit data because it supports 32bit clients; All the 64bit goodness in the world is totally redundant when you have to thunk to 32bit at your network layer.

Similarly the 3gb address space switch is not a cure, it's an Operating system change and is one that can actually make things *a lot worse*.

Ultimately, the best programming tricks in the world are only going to help 'so much' when you're trying to render a battle between 2800+ different people; the amount of local address space is simply not a factor in the Server being able to get that much data out to keep the game flowing in real time.

If anyone's interested in optimizing code, then I can strongly recommend reading this:

http://www.agner.org/optimize/optimizing_cpp.pdf

It's largely about C++ but the concepts map to any language that works against the bare metal.



Indeed I m very well aware of how near impossible it is to do such a fundamental change in software, however as it was said before by some CCP I don't remember which one, this will need to be done soon or late, there is no alternative for eve, I would like to see if CCP can provide some insight about their future plans on this technical side of EVE.