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Sick of Capsule's and pod pilots.

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Author
Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2013-01-14 02:33:42 UTC
Sepherim wrote:
I actually always found it rather strange and silly that most of the governors of all empires were capsuleers. Compared to the real world, you can probably find that far from most of the governors of the different countries are elite airship pilots. :S


Like I said in my previous post, it's not about piloting ships, it's more about being inmortal because clones. Which real world governor wouldn't want to be inmortal if they could?
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2013-01-14 02:53:01 UTC
Sure, but becoming a pod pilot is not something everybody can, it also depends on the fact that you are "appopriate" for the pod. And that, if I remember correctly, is a dangrous test to fail in. And even if it's not dangerous to fail in it, what are the odds that all of them are compatible?

And, as far as inmortality goes, the DUST implants are better for being inmortal than the pod ones, as the first ones don't need a pod to transfer your identity in the moment of your death. Because a pod pilot that dies outside of his pod is just a dead man like the rest (hopefully, he can retore himself from a previous copy, but that's all).

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2013-01-14 12:42:07 UTC
Sepherim wrote:
Sure, but becoming a pod pilot is not something everybody can, it also depends on the fact that you are "appopriate" for the pod. And that, if I remember correctly, is a dangrous test to fail in. And even if it's not dangerous to fail in it, what are the odds that all of them are compatible?

And, as far as inmortality goes, the DUST implants are better for being inmortal than the pod ones, as the first ones don't need a pod to transfer your identity in the moment of your death. Because a pod pilot that dies outside of his pod is just a dead man like the rest (hopefully, he can retore himself from a previous copy, but that's all).


You're doing it wrongside. Except for Sarum, none of those people were famous to us before they got the positions they have. They all are magically compatible because they are the ones who survived becoming capsuleers, and lived enough to claim their current positions. We don't know how many people died trying before them.
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-01-14 15:06:07 UTC
Okay, they were capsuleers before becoming important. That doesn't make them good politicians as to guarantee their elections on the Gallente Federation, or give them any skill to make sure all the Caldari corporations follow them. It still falls into the cathegory of "all governors are ace military pilots"; sure, probably some are (specially in the States, where a military experience is a plus in the race for seats of power) but most certainly most of them aren't (like in the european states). That they had the will to survive the pod doesn't give them ideas, intelligence, oratory skill, etc. Sure, implants can do that, but you don't need to be a pod pilot to have a mnemonic augmentation.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2013-01-14 16:02:16 UTC
You are infering again that it's just ilogic chance that they are in their positions while having those traits.

Let's imagine that we have subjects A, B, C, D and E. All of them are rich and powerful planetside, but they want more, much more. They want to control states. They want inmortality. They want more money than what 100 generations of their family could spend.

First of all, they decide that becoming a capsuleer, and thus inmortal (not necessarily a pilot, just the clones) is worth the risk. Remember that at the time the DUST tech wasn't invented yet. So they pay and the process starts. During it, B and C die, leaving A, D and E as rich and powerful capsuleers. This is where each of us are, lorewise.

Now, they want even more, and they are interested in politics. But only capsuleers A and E are charismatic and handsome or what you have to become real politicians. At the end, and after a long time, A becomes president of the Gallente Federation. His name was Jacus Rodent all this time. We will never know the names of B, C, D and E.
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-01-14 17:30:51 UTC
You have a point there, indeed. That does make it sound much more believable. :)

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Zol Interbottom
Blimp Requisition Services
#27 - 2013-01-15 10:02:56 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
You are infering again that it's just ilogic chance that they are in their positions while having those traits.

Let's imagine that we have subjects A, B, C, D and E. All of them are rich and powerful planetside, but they want more, much more. They want to control states. They want inmortality. They want more money than what 100 generations of their family could spend.

First of all, they decide that becoming a capsuleer, and thus inmortal (not necessarily a pilot, just the clones) is worth the risk. Remember that at the time the DUST tech wasn't invented yet. So they pay and the process starts. During it, B and C die, leaving A, D and E as rich and powerful capsuleers. This is where each of us are, lorewise.

Now, they want even more, and they are interested in politics. But only capsuleers A and E are charismatic and handsome or what you have to become real politicians. At the end, and after a long time, A becomes president of the Gallente Federation. His name was Jacus Rodent all this time. We will never know the names of B, C, D and E.


D became Dagan and went on to **** off many many people

E became leader of the largest alliance of corporations and took over all of null and invaded empire

"If you're quitting for the 3rd time you clearly ain't quitting" - Chribba

Eliniale
Co-operative Resource Extraction
#28 - 2013-01-15 11:26:01 UTC
Warning: off topic

Zol Interbottom wrote:
Nivin Sajjad > we fly perpetually networked, neural interfaced spaceships yet can't communicate coordinates to each other without physically passing back and forth little pieces of paper. it's weird.


Although like the idea behind the quote, it's no longer fully true, corp bookmarks made it so (aguably you could use security reasons why it's only for corp).

System ideas: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=191928&find=unread

Zol Interbottom
Blimp Requisition Services
#29 - 2013-01-15 11:45:42 UTC
Eliniale wrote:
Warning: off topic

Zol Interbottom wrote:
Nivin Sajjad > we fly perpetually networked, neural interfaced spaceships yet can't communicate coordinates to each other without physically passing back and forth little pieces of paper. it's weird.


Although like the idea behind the quote, it's no longer fully true, corp bookmarks made it so (aguably you could use security reasons why it's only for corp).


i think it only works for corp because they take photos of the location with geo-tagging on and send it to their corpmates on their phones

inb4 no phones in space

"If you're quitting for the 3rd time you clearly ain't quitting" - Chribba

Alex Grison
Grison Universal
#30 - 2013-01-15 21:00:13 UTC
They told me I could be anything. So I became a space ship

yes

Kalanaja
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2013-01-16 04:39:39 UTC
Zol Interbottom wrote:
Eliniale wrote:
Warning: off topic

Zol Interbottom wrote:
Nivin Sajjad > we fly perpetually networked, neural interfaced spaceships yet can't communicate coordinates to each other without physically passing back and forth little pieces of paper. it's weird.


Although like the idea behind the quote, it's no longer fully true, corp bookmarks made it so (aguably you could use security reasons why it's only for corp).


i think it only works for corp because they take photos of the location with geo-tagging on and send it to their corpmates on their phones

inb4 no phones in space



No, what ships and all stations and even gates have are fluid routers. Stations especially have stacks of the things with people from Interstellar Service Department servicing them at all times. Thus with fluid routers is http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/FTL_communications born.
Marrnius DeLeon
Malevelon Roe Industries
Convocation of Empyreans
#32 - 2013-01-17 17:25:26 UTC
Everyone I have ever showed this game (including me when I started) has asked, "So you're not flying the ship?" or "Why are there windows on the ship?" While the lore is fun and interesting, it is not the norm. Typically, a game tells you the story and while EVE does it's best to explain it in the beginning we all know how this game is when you first start. It's not some childish expectation to feel things should be one way or the other. There is nothing like EVE and that's what makes it great, but since it is a lone wolf in the gaming world we all want it to include all the sci-fi elements the community is missing. I would LOVE to have an option to NOT be a capsuleer or experience things on my feet. The more things that make me feel involved with the world the better.
Eliniale
Co-operative Resource Extraction
#33 - 2013-01-17 18:36:12 UTC
Zol Interbottom wrote:
Eliniale wrote:
Warning: off topic

Zol Interbottom wrote:
Nivin Sajjad > we fly perpetually networked, neural interfaced spaceships yet can't communicate coordinates to each other without physically passing back and forth little pieces of paper. it's weird.


Although like the idea behind the quote, it's no longer fully true, corp bookmarks made it so (aguably you could use security reasons why it's only for corp).


i think it only works for corp because they take photos of the location with geo-tagging on and send it to their corpmates on their phones

inb4 no phones in space


Well actually, canonwise, it has to do with the way fluid routers are designed.
It can only send and receive that much information in one go because of those limitations. (which is why there is a limit on chat message characters). Which also explained why bookmarks used to be too big to be shared.
Only now that Corp bookmarks are a thing, the canon is no longer up to date.

I have no idea how they'll explain it this time (if they ever do)

System ideas: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=191928&find=unread

Call Rollard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-01-27 03:36:45 UTC
Alex Triton wrote:
I think the whole concept of capsuleers and pod pilots is nonsense on so many levels to be honest. It takes away from the whole concept of commanding a spaceship. Nobody wants to BE a starship, they want to COMMAND one. I would think that most sci-fi fans agree. The logic and lore is all very inconsistent, and all the backstory surrounds THEM like the entire eve populace is a capsuleer. It's as if no fighting goes on outside of the affairs of capsuleers, no military engagments happen between non-capsuleers, and nothing of any relevence goes on in the universe outside of capusleer captain affairs. Am I wrong, or are the vast majority of the space lanes commanded by non-pod pilots with traditional crews? Why does all the back story and lore hammer in this ridiculous demigod concept?

I am reading chronicles to get a feel of the world of eve and every damn backstory chronicle goes on and on about capsuleers. Are there no non-pod captains, non-pod industrialists, miners, corporations, ships, ect? Does the entire world revolve around human starship hybrids? I thought we are supposed to be rare? Why does it feel like everyone is a capsuleer?? I feel in love with the world of eve, the polictics. I am so over this stupid, illogical lore concept.


If you read the EVE Chronicles and actually read it, you will notice that most of them don't involve capsuleers.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#35 - 2013-01-28 00:45:27 UTC
What irks me about capsuleer lore is that it is inconsistent with the players themselves. According to lore, to become a capsuleer one must be chosen - both literally and metaphorically. This implies that is limited only to the elite of the elite, whether that means the best pilots or those from families with massive influence (be it nobility or criminal connections).

Anyone who is familiar with the old Cyberpunk RPG knows exactly where I am going with this: "Selling Out." There is little conceivable way for anyone to become a capsuleer pilot without either signing their soul over to an all-powerful government agency or being born into a family of billionaires. Either way, those who paid to put you into that capsule are going to want a return on that investment, and a commitment from that pilot to whatever cause they stand for.

Meanwhile, back in the game, Joe Bogwart the Plumber's Son gets thrown into a pod, given a free ship by their government and then set free to fly off to nullsec & start a life of pillaging and plundering from the very people who sponsored them. In other words, player capsuleers are all-too-often just run-of-the-mill nobodies of consequence who just happened get made into capsuleers by no virtue other than the fact that they gave CCP $15 to make an account. Furthermore, they have no sense of obligations & no loyalty to anyone but themselves.

Let's be realistic for a minute here and think about this. If the US government, for example, were to invest $50,000,000 into turning someone into an elite cyborg super-soldier, you bet your ass they'll install a kill-switch somewhere in their head while they're at it. And that solider better follow every order they give him for the rest of his life if he doesn't want them to hit that switch.

That's what I mean by "selling out" versus "anarchy with spaceships." Even in the original X-Beyond the Frontier when it first starts off your ship is unarmed, stranded and helpless. Some Taladi merchants reapir & upgrade you ship into a basic, newbie fighting thing... at a price. They give you a strict time limit in which to cough up money to pay for this service or they'll repossess your ship (read: game over). Even though you have total freedom from that point forward (and that freedom is only because you've lost contact with the Earth government that sponsored you), there is still some sense of logical justification & obligation to your new status as "independent captain."

Seriously, why would (picking at random) the Imperial University keep dumping billions of ISK into turning Regular Joes into Immortal Capsuleers when 99% of them bail out from them in under a week? Where is the return in the investment? What about the pirates? As far as game mechanics go, zero pirate factions actually have their own capsuleer programs. No one can make a new character in a pirate faction. You have to make a new character from a law-abiding nation and then defect to a pirate faction. Looking at the sheer number of pirates out there... yeah, I'd say installing kill-switches seems like a logical choice, here.

Again, this is not done because CCP wants to encourage player freedom. I get that - marketing commands it to be so. But sadly that freedom comes at a cost, and that cost is having any kind of believable lore around capsuleers.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2013-01-28 01:07:49 UTC
I agree with you completely on this point.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2013-01-28 12:15:54 UTC
I was under the impresion that we, in fact, we're all insanely rich planetside and that's where the money came from. 'Picked' capsuleers do indeed stay under the orders of the npc corps, but those are only npc characters.
In fact, RL money = planetside money. There, you have an explanaition for where does the money for PLEX come from.
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#38 - 2013-01-28 13:00:50 UTC
The governments only train the people who go to the military academies.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents

Zol Interbottom
Blimp Requisition Services
#39 - 2013-01-28 13:55:02 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
The governments only train the people who go to the military academies.


then give us the option to get illegal implant jobs so we can finally go full space criminal

"If you're quitting for the 3rd time you clearly ain't quitting" - Chribba

Sairi Katelin
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-01-28 15:40:05 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Seriously, why would (picking at random) the Imperial University keep dumping billions of ISK into turning Regular Joes into Immortal Capsuleers when 99% of them bail out from them in under a week? Where is the return in the investment?

Well, they do have that hefty tax rate for zero other services rendered.
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