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Fighting the Hookbill

Author
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#21 - 2013-01-27 13:53:54 UTC
A maulus with double damp and good ewar skiills will damp a HB down to ~10km targeting range.
I don't know how fast the Hookbill can go, though, so don't nail me on anything i say now:

With a 200mmrrt Plate a maulus will currently go ~3000m/s before overheat and rigs and have 1100 armor. You can go up in tank by fitting a micro aux power core and go 400mm, this will give you ~700 raw armor hp more, but drop your speed by almost 250m/s.

So, depending on the speed the hookbill achieves, you can either increase tank with trimarks etc, or try getting more speed than the hookbil. Or get drone speed / hitpoints and increase the survivability of your hobs.


You can go ith 75mm rails or autocannons, depends on your style. But all in all, i'd say from the gallente lineup, the Maulus is your best bet.
Carol Krabit
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-01-27 16:15:17 UTC
If you want to play dirty, use a hard counter anti-kinetic hardener in whichever fit you use. A hookbill is very likely to shoot kinetic at you. To lay in wait with short tackle and scan res upgrades at warp in might work well to catch kiters.

Hookbills are very decent.
Dorian Tormak
RBON United
#23 - 2013-01-27 17:26:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Dorian Tormak
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
lml hookbill will have a TD, Thus an incursus/rail comet are not ideal


Fit a fast comet with web scram and an MWD

(You will be at a disadvantage against most other things but you will munch kiting hookbills)

You don't need a Comet to kill micro warp drive kiters.

Those are easy to kill. The OP was asking mainly about rocket Hoobills with tracking disruptors.

The 150mm Rail Incursus can hold it's own with dual web Hookbills, although it will always be close.

Try a rail Comet

{Rail Comet}
Damage Control
Small Armor Repper
Adaptive Nano Plating
Magnetic Field Stabilizer

Afterburner
Scram
Web

150mm Railguns

Drones and rigs are whatever you want them to be. Against the standard dual web Hookbill you can win the engagement tho theyll most likely still escape, and against the single web / td Hookbill, you can hopefully control range enough to get as close as you can and do as much damage as you can, don't get too close however as you don't want to end up in a tight orbit with him where your rails won't track.

Do not bother with blasters against a scram range Hookbill unless you're in a ship with some huge falloff advantage / 90% web or something.

Edit: Also the sensor damp Maulus is a good idea although it might be tough with so few drones, which he will no doubt shoot and kill.

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!

Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#24 - 2013-01-27 18:50:52 UTC
Guide to winning eve frigate fights:

AB + Scram is not the best way to fly a frigate.
You must be able to hit to 10km with at least 70% of your DPS to even think about going into FW.
Learn to slingshot.
Understand that a frigate worth 500k will struggle against a frig worth 14mil.

Pick something to excel at and do it. If you fit a brawling ship that operate ~3km then you need to accept that you will die in a fire if a kiting ship gets you.

However i am sympathetic to your cause, baring in mind that hookbill pilots with AB/Web/Scram/TD are the scum of the universe and couldn't pilot a real ship to save themself.

Also, i've found hookbill pilots with AB's carry stabs quite a lot. It's pathetic.
Dorian Tormak
RBON United
#25 - 2013-01-27 20:57:51 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
If you fit a brawling ship that operate ~3km then you need to accept that you will die in a fire if a kiting ship gets you.

My Incursus operates at 0 km and I eat kiting ships for breakfast lunch and dinner.


Maeltstome wrote:
AB + Scram is not the best way to fly a frigate.

That's a nice opinion. There is no best way to fly a frigate.

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!

Cage Man
Comms Black
Pandemic Horde
#26 - 2013-01-27 21:33:27 UTC
Griffin?? torture him slowly with your dps
Dorian Tormak
RBON United
#27 - 2013-01-27 22:01:00 UTC
Cage Man wrote:
Griffin?? torture him slowly with your dps

It would work but who's gonna engage a Griffin? Not worth the pain in the arse to anyone.

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!

Arkenai Wyrnspire
Incorruptibles
Sugar. Affiliates
#28 - 2013-01-27 22:37:41 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
A maulus with double damp and good ewar skiills will damp a HB down to ~10km targeting range.
I don't know how fast the Hookbill can go, though, so don't nail me on anything i say now:

With a 200mmrrt Plate a maulus will currently go ~3000m/s before overheat and rigs and have 1100 armor. You can go up in tank by fitting a micro aux power core and go 400mm, this will give you ~700 raw armor hp more, but drop your speed by almost 250m/s.

So, depending on the speed the hookbill achieves, you can either increase tank with trimarks etc, or try getting more speed than the hookbil. Or get drone speed / hitpoints and increase the survivability of your hobs.


You can go ith 75mm rails or autocannons, depends on your style. But all in all, i'd say from the gallente lineup, the Maulus is your best bet.


A Hookbill with a MWD can break 4km/s. It looks like a good solution to the rocket HB though, as is the dual damp condor. As the Maulus is a gallente ship I'll probably try that first though. Maybe with speed mods it'd be able to take a MWD fit HB as well.

Maeltstome wrote:
Guide to winning eve frigate fights:

AB + Scram is not the best way to fly a frigate.
You must be able to hit to 10km with at least 70% of your DPS to even think about going into FW.
Learn to slingshot.
Understand that a frigate worth 500k will struggle against a frig worth 14mil.

Pick something to excel at and do it. If you fit a brawling ship that operate ~3km then you need to accept that you will die in a fire if a kiting ship gets you.

However i am sympathetic to your cause, baring in mind that hookbill pilots with AB/Web/Scram/TD are the scum of the universe and couldn't pilot a real ship to save themself.

Also, i've found hookbill pilots with AB's carry stabs quite a lot. It's pathetic.


I'm not expecting to wtfpwn faction frigates with a T1 frigate. I'm just considering them amongst my options. Similarly, I know that AB/Scram isn't the 'best' way to go, but it remains a viable option against most ships. It's just the HB that is forcing me to reconsider there.
My issue is that so many fittings on the ships I can fly can be killed comfortably by most Hookbills. If I fit to brawl with blasters (a silly thing to do, I know) then I get killed by practically any HB unless I'm using a MWD and I come across a bad kiter. If I fit to kite, I'm out-tanked and outdpsed or disabled by the HBs utilities.
Stabs... god, really? That would be a blessing if I were to fly a dampening ship though. Until they warp off.

Dorian Tormak wrote:
Cage Man wrote:

Griffin?? torture him slowly with your dps


It would work but who's gonna engage a Griffin? Not worth the pain in the arse to anyone.


I also refuse to stoop to the levels of such faggotry. If I wanted to shoot at things that couldn't do anything I'd shoot cans.

Dorian Tormak wrote:
Try a rail Comet

{Rail Comet}
Damage Control
Small Armor Repper
Adaptive Nano Plating
Magnetic Field Stabilizer

Afterburner
Scram
Web

150mm Railguns

Drones and rigs are whatever you want them to be. Against the standard dual web Hookbill you can win the engagement tho theyll most likely still escape, and against the single web / td Hookbill, you can hopefully control range enough to get as close as you can and do as much damage as you can, don't get too close however as you don't want to end up in a tight orbit with him where your rails won't track.

Do not bother with blasters against a scram range Hookbill unless you're in a ship with some huge falloff advantage / 90% web or something.

Edit: Also the sensor damp Maulus is a good idea although it might be tough with so few drones, which he will no doubt shoot and kill.


I'm going to try a rail Comet. I'm worried that the HB will be able to out-tank and outdps me still though. TD's would doom me - with the fight likely to be as close as I think it would be, I would not be able to negate it enough through manual piloting. I'm not a great pilot tbqh. The fight won't be as close when AARs come out of course. Big smile
Regardless, a rail Comet will be fitted.

Your point about the Maulus is a good one as well - even if I were able to disable the HB enough for my ship to be safe from it, it would still be able to dispatch my drones in short order with its missiles.



What does anyone think of the Tristan for this?

Someone.

W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#29 - 2013-01-27 22:51:48 UTC
There are so many fitting variants for hookbills, due to 5 mids, that you cant simply say this will win. A ab daredevil will die to a dualdamp mwd kiting hookbill, a mwd/scra/web dd will die to a ab/dualweb/td hookbill. Every rocket af/t1 frig will die to a kite bill aswell,arty thrashers will die to ab ones and so on. Theonly ship that can beat the hookbill not matter the fit is a avtice 10mn ab fit, if the oponnent is rocket fit you can either kite him or sig/speed tank him, if hes lml fit you can permatank him while doing enough dps to kill him.
Arkenai Wyrnspire
Incorruptibles
Sugar. Affiliates
#30 - 2013-01-27 22:57:41 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
There are so many fitting variants for hookbills, due to 5 mids, that you cant simply say this will win. A ab daredevil will die to a dualdamp mwd kiting hookbill, a mwd/scra/web dd will die to a ab/dualweb/td hookbill. Every rocket af/t1 frig will die to a kite bill aswell,arty thrashers will die to ab ones and so on. Theonly ship that can beat the hookbill not matter the fit is a avtice 10mn ab fit, if the oponnent is rocket fit you can either kite him or sig/speed tank him, if hes lml fit you can permatank him while doing enough dps to kill him.


Yeah, it's awkward dealing with such a versatile ship.
"avtice 10mn ab fit" - What is an avtice? I actually considered 10MN AB fits (Though I actually used the Taranis, which can't enter novices) but gave up because of the horrible agility.

Someone.

Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#31 - 2013-01-28 02:03:05 UTC
Dorian Tormak wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
If you fit a brawling ship that operate ~3km then you need to accept that you will die in a fire if a kiting ship gets you.

My Incursus operates at 0 km and I eat kiting ships for breakfast lunch and dinner.


Maeltstome wrote:
AB + Scram is not the best way to fly a frigate.

That's a nice opinion. There is no best way to fly a frigate.


The old mwd, scram, web ranis gets munched with blasters. So it requires some different thinking.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-01-28 11:48:34 UTC
Carol Krabit wrote:
If you want to play dirty, use a hard counter anti-kinetic hardener in whichever fit you use. A hookbill is very likely to shoot kinetic at you. To lay in wait with short tackle and scan res upgrades at warp in might work well to catch kiters.

Hookbills are very decent.



That should get you killed by every pilot that flies out there longer than a week.

Any decent pilot knows it strenght and it's weaknesses, thats why most Caldari ships, have studded their EM-Hole and carry more than one Damage type of missiles.

Especialy when flying a hookbill that hase a damage bonus on non Kinetic missiles as well, slightly lower but good enough to use.

When I used to do Faction war, the only ships I tried to avoid in a Hookbill where the Daredevil and the Dramiel.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#33 - 2013-01-28 15:57:39 UTC
[Breacher, New Setup 2]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Internal Force Field Array I
Co-Processor I

Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
1MN Afterburner II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Light Missile I
Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Light Missile I
Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Light Missile I

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I


Hobgoblin II x2

This is pretty much a hardcounter. Vs a rocket using ab fit, well you permatank him (if he switches ammo, his dps will be low enough to tank him, vs kinetic you can tank 300dps per booster). It will take a wile but you will kill him. If he is one of the dualdamp mwd ones, load fof missiles and keep your ab speed up, you should be able to permtank him just fine, while your missile kill him/force him to leave.

Vs most other stuff this fit suck tho.
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#34 - 2013-01-28 16:39:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Christine Peeveepeeski
I currently fly a dual prop hookbill with buffer tank. (I tried an asb fit out and while good (49/4 kills) the buffer is better).

I kite brawlers with javelin and brawl kiters with navy ammo. The only 2 ships in a novice I fear are DD's and Cruors.

In smalls the only ships I fear are certain AF's. It's 50/50 with most dessies if i'm warping in to them and if they have to warp in to me I am happy to engage most things.

Hookbills are lovely ships. It's downside is no utility high for the all important nos when you want to tackle something larger than a dessie.

5 midslot ships to me are just begging to be dual propped, My hawk fit takes a similar philosophy simply because I value flexibility over specialisation when on long roams far from my home bases. Someone tries to hard counter me they'll have to bring something good or more than likely some friends.
Dorian Tormak
RBON United
#35 - 2013-01-29 00:15:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Dorian Tormak
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:
I currently fly a dual prop hookbill with buffer tank. (I tried an asb fit out and while good (49/4 kills) the buffer is better).

I kite brawlers with javelin and brawl kiters with navy ammo. The only 2 ships in a novice I fear are DD's and Cruors.

In smalls the only ships I fear are certain AF's. It's 50/50 with most dessies if i'm warping in to them and if they have to warp in to me I am happy to engage most things.

Hookbills are lovely ships. It's downside is no utility high for the all important nos when you want to tackle something larger than a dessie.

5 midslot ships to me are just begging to be dual propped, My hawk fit takes a similar philosophy simply because I value flexibility over specialisation when on long roams far from my home bases. Someone tries to hard counter me they'll have to bring something good or more than likely some friends.

But then again micro warp driving can leave you at a serious disadvantage inside scram range. I like your point about flexibility over specialization, but when I see a micro warp driving Hookbill with rockets I immediately think "I can exploit that weakness". Because with that MWD taking up a mid-slot, you've reduced it to basically a four-mid-slot ship when it comes to scram range.

Frigate PvP is all about specialization / counters imo, unless you're extremely skilled, which I am not.

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!

Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#36 - 2013-01-29 11:46:22 UTC
Dorian Tormak wrote:
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:
I currently fly a dual prop hookbill with buffer tank. (I tried an asb fit out and while good (49/4 kills) the buffer is better).

I kite brawlers with javelin and brawl kiters with navy ammo. The only 2 ships in a novice I fear are DD's and Cruors.

In smalls the only ships I fear are certain AF's. It's 50/50 with most dessies if i'm warping in to them and if they have to warp in to me I am happy to engage most things.

Hookbills are lovely ships. It's downside is no utility high for the all important nos when you want to tackle something larger than a dessie.

5 midslot ships to me are just begging to be dual propped, My hawk fit takes a similar philosophy simply because I value flexibility over specialisation when on long roams far from my home bases. Someone tries to hard counter me they'll have to bring something good or more than likely some friends.

But then again micro warp driving can leave you at a serious disadvantage inside scram range. I like your point about flexibility over specialization, but when I see a micro warp driving Hookbill with rockets I immediately think "I can exploit that weakness". Because with that MWD taking up a mid-slot, you've reduced it to basically a four-mid-slot ship when it comes to scram range.

Frigate PvP is all about specialization / counters imo, unless you're extremely skilled, which I am not.


It's generally about who has the most links these days.
Dorian Tormak
RBON United
#37 - 2013-01-29 18:14:52 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
[Breacher, New Setup 2]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Internal Force Field Array I
Co-Processor I

Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 50
1MN Afterburner II
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Light Missile I
Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Light Missile I
Light Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Light Missile I

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I


Hobgoblin II x2

This is pretty much a hardcounter. Vs a rocket using ab fit, well you permatank him (if he switches ammo, his dps will be low enough to tank him, vs kinetic you can tank 300dps per booster). It will take a wile but you will kill him. If he is one of the dualdamp mwd ones, load fof missiles and keep your ab speed up, you should be able to permtank him just fine, while your missile kill him/force him to leave.

Vs most other stuff this fit suck tho.

The thing about this is that you have absolutely no means of keeping him in place. Even a half-wit will align and warp out once your damage starts hurting.

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!

Dorian Tormak
RBON United
#38 - 2013-01-29 18:17:02 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Dorian Tormak wrote:
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:
I currently fly a dual prop hookbill with buffer tank. (I tried an asb fit out and while good (49/4 kills) the buffer is better).

I kite brawlers with javelin and brawl kiters with navy ammo. The only 2 ships in a novice I fear are DD's and Cruors.

In smalls the only ships I fear are certain AF's. It's 50/50 with most dessies if i'm warping in to them and if they have to warp in to me I am happy to engage most things.

Hookbills are lovely ships. It's downside is no utility high for the all important nos when you want to tackle something larger than a dessie.

5 midslot ships to me are just begging to be dual propped, My hawk fit takes a similar philosophy simply because I value flexibility over specialisation when on long roams far from my home bases. Someone tries to hard counter me they'll have to bring something good or more than likely some friends.

But then again micro warp driving can leave you at a serious disadvantage inside scram range. I like your point about flexibility over specialization, but when I see a micro warp driving Hookbill with rockets I immediately think "I can exploit that weakness". Because with that MWD taking up a mid-slot, you've reduced it to basically a four-mid-slot ship when it comes to scram range.

Frigate PvP is all about specialization / counters imo, unless you're extremely skilled, which I am not.


It's generally about who has the most links these days.

By the time I remember to get those trained on my alt they're going to be nerfed / gone :(

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#39 - 2013-01-29 18:21:13 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
It's generally about who has the most links these days.


That's actually false, but whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#40 - 2013-02-08 11:18:21 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Maeltstome wrote:
It's generally about who has the most links these days.


That's actually false, but whatever makes you feel better about yourself.

-Liang


If you thought that was true you wouldn't have about 5 link characters. 1 skirmish link with a web range bonus can decide a frig fight - and you damn well know that.
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