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How is bumping off undock not an exploit?
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Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#21 - 2013-01-26 22:43:46 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
IDGI… Why would (or should) it be an exploit, again?


there's an invulnerability timer until your ship moves so that you can't get blown up before grid loads. Being bumped off station while you haven't loaded yet has the same effect.

As said before in the thread, however, you cannot be bumped while on the timer.

But who holds the timer? Client side? Server side? The involvement of a timer makes this bumping different than gate/miner bumping.

I will try and bump suspects playing station games out of dock range. To date I really suck at it. OP, please tell me who killed you so I can take some notes.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#22 - 2013-01-26 23:48:44 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
IDGI… Why would (or should) it be an exploit, again?


there's an invulnerability timer until your ship moves so that you can't get blown up before grid loads. Being bumped off station while you haven't loaded yet has the same effect.

As said before in the thread, however, you cannot be bumped while on the timer.

But who holds the timer? Client side? Server side? The involvement of a timer makes this bumping different than gate/miner bumping.

I will try and bump suspects playing station games out of dock range. To date I really suck at it. OP, please tell me who killed you so I can take some notes.


You're invulnerable for 30 seconds upon undocking. You can re-dock after 10 seconds. I have never known someone to fail to load grid for the full 30 seconds of invulnerability.

The invulnerability prevents anything from affecting you. Including bumps.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#23 - 2013-01-27 00:47:50 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Nexus Day wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
IDGI… Why would (or should) it be an exploit, again?


there's an invulnerability timer until your ship moves so that you can't get blown up before grid loads. Being bumped off station while you haven't loaded yet has the same effect.

As said before in the thread, however, you cannot be bumped while on the timer.

But who holds the timer? Client side? Server side? The involvement of a timer makes this bumping different than gate/miner bumping.

I will try and bump suspects playing station games out of dock range. To date I really suck at it. OP, please tell me who killed you so I can take some notes.


You're invulnerable for 30 seconds upon undocking. You can re-dock after 10 seconds. I have never known someone to fail to load grid for the full 30 seconds of invulnerability.

The invulnerability prevents anything from affecting you. Including bumps.

It happened to some of us during Burn Jita. Too much ~action~ on the undock.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-01-27 01:29:40 UTC
The worst part about Burn Jita for me was the infinite criminal timer.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-01-27 02:15:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Warbird
Alavaria Fera wrote:

It happened to some of us during Burn Jita. Too much ~action~ on the undock.


That's what she said :P

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-01-28 07:24:01 UTC
I can confirm that I have been bumped within 10 seconds of undock, targeted and killed.

I am not butthurt about it, but I am curious why CCP provides invulnerability, and then allows bumping off the undock WHILE still under invulnerability.

I am pretty sure I have seen this when hanging with RvB too.

Just seems to me, you're either protected on the undock, or you're not. It shouldn't be that you're protected, but you're not.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-01-28 07:30:33 UTC
Dark Drifter wrote:
piecakes's brother wrote:
This is very simple...


A few years ago I bumped miners out a belt.. The miner petitioned it.. I was contacted by a GM and warned me further bumping will lead to me being banned.. Fast forward to Current time. CCP has changed there view on it and says its ok now...

Easiest reason James315 and and his crew bump miners out of belts. and gank them to "profit" all though they rarely do... Which btw I fully endorse this...

How this is relevant? CCP creators/ gm/ devs/ isd all have accounts they play eve with and when its suits their needs they change the rules. If you think this doesn't happen all the time you are not reading up on exploits and who uses them.


the GM warned you to stop because you was harassing other members of eve, they petitioned you for it.
you was not threatened with a ban because you bumped ships. you got threatened for individual harassment


Because bumping someone once or twice is sustained harassment. No. It's because bumping is considered a viable tactic. It's only considered wrong if there is no potential for profit & that is classed as griefing. James 315 has gotten around this within the rules of the game. If you do something for profit, it's not griefing.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
ChYph3r
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-01-28 07:32:41 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Obviously, there is limited invulnerability when undocking, so then wouldn't that make bumping off of undock an exploit, and it so, why haven't CCP addressed it?

inb4 bad posts
inb4 people who like to bump
inb4 station games are worse



Just quit eve now, gimme all your iskies and be gone. tear boy!

Want to find all the podcasts around EVE Online visit http://evepodcasts.com @chyph3r  on Twitter
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-01-28 07:37:35 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
I can confirm that I have been bumped within 10 seconds of undock, targeted and killed.

I am not butthurt about it, but I am curious why CCP provides invulnerability, and then allows bumping off the undock WHILE still under invulnerability.

I am pretty sure I have seen this when hanging with RvB too.

Just seems to me, you're either protected on the undock, or you're not. It shouldn't be that you're protected, but you're not.

Have you tried to contact GMs on the matter? I'm pretty sure that normal bups, targeting and the like doesn't happen on undocking. Would be nice to have some comments on this matter coming from GMs or people in similar position.
If invulnerability timer dropping for no good reason immideately isn't what is supposed to happen, then you probably could petition such occurences.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
ChYph3r
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-01-28 07:42:32 UTC
Here's the deal you care bear empire dwelling turds, NO AREA IN EVE SPACE is SAFE, this includes empire so get used to it.

If you don't like it go back to playing with your WOW panda bears.


PS Gimme all your sh*t before you leave i take all donations seriously.

Want to find all the podcasts around EVE Online visit http://evepodcasts.com @chyph3r  on Twitter
Josef Djugashvilis
#31 - 2013-01-28 07:47:30 UTC
ChYph3r wrote:
Here's the deal you care bear empire dwelling turds, NO AREA IN EVE SPACE is SAFE, this includes empire so get used to it.

If you don't like it go back to playing with your WOW panda bears.


PS Gimme all your sh*t before you leave i take all donations seriously.



^^^ So this is how today's 13 year olds are on the internet.

Perhaps your parents should supervise you more when you are posting.

This is not a signature.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#32 - 2013-01-28 07:53:36 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
I can confirm that I have been bumped within 10 seconds of undock, targeted and killed.

I am not butthurt about it, but I am curious why CCP provides invulnerability, and then allows bumping off the undock WHILE still under invulnerability.

I am pretty sure I have seen this when hanging with RvB too.

Just seems to me, you're either protected on the undock, or you're not. It shouldn't be that you're protected, but you're not.


Sounds like you did something to break your invulnerability.

If you do anything other than "Nothing" or "Ctrl-Space to stop your ship," you are no longer covered by invulnerability.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-01-28 07:55:28 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
ChYph3r wrote:
Here's the deal you care bear empire dwelling turds, NO AREA IN EVE SPACE is SAFE, this includes empire so get used to it.

If you don't like it go back to playing with your WOW panda bears.


PS Gimme all your sh*t before you leave i take all donations seriously.



^^^ So this is how today's 13 year olds are on the internet.

Perhaps your parents should supervise you more when you are posting.


It's TEST. Don't expect good posting from TEST.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2013-01-28 07:56:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Eugene Kerner

  1. This is a troll thread
  2. posting in a covert (or not so) "nerf freighter ganking" thread

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-01-28 08:50:19 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Sounds like you did something to break your invulnerability.

Pretty sure I didn't, but maybe I did. I don't know if GMs can look into that, but I think I will put in a petition.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-01-28 08:53:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Chokichi Ozuwara
Eugene Kerner wrote:

  1. This is a troll thread
  2. posting in a covert (or not so) "nerf freighter ganking" thread

It isn't a troll thread, I am looking for clarification. Obviously, Eve is a complex game, with a lot of undocumented exploits, opportunities, and tactics.

I don't particularly care about the loss, it was almost nothing, it's just confusing to me, and I like to know the rules of the game when I play. If there is no invulnerability on the undock, I will happily adjust to that.

In the future, before making baseless claims, count to 20 before posting, and if you think it is still a good idea, don't.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#37 - 2013-01-28 08:54:40 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Sounds like you did something to break your invulnerability.

Pretty sure I didn't, but maybe I did. I don't know if GMs can look into that, but I think I will put in a petition.


Did you do literally anything other than Ctrl-Space? If so, you voided your invulnerability.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Yim Sei
Ontogenic Achronycal PLC
#38 - 2013-01-28 09:01:04 UTC
If this is a troll thread - fair enough, nothing to see here -

If not then I an getting worried why so many seem to be posting about normal run of the mill game mechanics as if they need changing to protect them.

I mean come on, why start playing a game you KNOW is supposed to be hard knocks (in fact its probably what got you interested) - then whine about these mechanics when your ship blows up.

To all these crybabies who never want any risk - please leave Eve - this game is not for you.

Not the actual system in place but the inventive ways these systems are used are created by the playerbase which IMO has done an awesome job.

From Can flipping, miner bumping, gate/station sniping, to 0.01 isk trading, plex camping, and external political tech moon politics (Roll) - these are all part of the game and it is up to the opponents to use the tools in place to avoid or improve these systems.

Sure if you dont want to play then dont, no-one forces you to double click on the launcher icon.

Post with my main? This is my main - I just overtrain and overplay my alts.
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#39 - 2013-01-28 09:30:02 UTC
i could also ask in this thread why undocking then redocking before anyone is even allowed to lock is not considerd an exploit, but thats jst me :-P
Jaiimez Skor
The Infamous.
#40 - 2013-01-28 09:46:35 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Obviously, there is limited invulnerability when undocking, so then wouldn't that make bumping off of undock an exploit, and it so, why haven't CCP addressed it?

inb4 bad posts
inb4 people who like to bump
inb4 station games are worse


As others have said, you CANNOT bump somebody while they are under their invulnerability timer, they only become bumpable when they become locable.