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CCP... The Simple Solution to the NPC Corp Issue
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2013-01-28 00:59:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
I think the industry nerfs would be fair but this won't persuade people who don't want to be in player corps. they don't want the politics, the game running their life and they don't want to do boring activities with other people.

Not important - the goal is to create gameplay where you aren't rewarded with things like free wardec immunity for not participating socially in a mmo. CCP needs to come down hard on all forms of wardec evasion, which cannot happen unless things like NPC corps (in their current form) are removed.


sorry but i pay my 11% to CONCORD

When you haul things, does the NPC corp tax your cargo space? when you mine, does it directly cut the ore yield, or the refine rate? No.

Quote:
as I said, if you want to replace CONCORD protection with friendly neighborhood family protection then that would be a way for a freelancer to survive in a world of wardecs. that would be a way to push the player driven game forward.
I agree, replacing the guaranteed concord protection with a 'freelancer' system is the way to go. Let the players decide for themselves whether going it alone or defending as part of a team works best.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#42 - 2013-01-28 01:29:33 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
I think the industry nerfs would be fair but this won't persuade people who don't want to be in player corps. they don't want the politics, the game running their life and they don't want to do boring activities with other people.

Not important - the goal is to create gameplay where you aren't rewarded with things like free wardec immunity for not participating socially in a mmo. CCP needs to come down hard on all forms of wardec evasion, which cannot happen unless things like NPC corps (in their current form) are removed.


sorry but i pay my 11% to CONCORD

When you haul things, does the NPC corp tax your cargo space? when you mine, does it directly cut the ore yield, or the refine rate? No.

Quote:
as I said, if you want to replace CONCORD protection with friendly neighborhood family protection then that would be a way for a freelancer to survive in a world of wardecs. that would be a way to push the player driven game forward.
I agree, replacing the guaranteed concord protection with a 'freelancer' system is the way to go. Let the players decide for themselves whether going it alone or defending as part of a team works best.


I already said i don't mind potential nerfs to industry and you said that wasn't the point.

this is a sandbox game. you should be able to play it how you want to. the most interesting thing about this game is how players drive it, not how players dominate it. thus the 'proper' aspects of eve have no interest to me at all. I 'm so much more interested in possibilities and pew pew. and not getting blobbed by neckbeards in highsec.

forums.  serious business.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#43 - 2013-01-28 02:52:10 UTC
How exactly does someone in an NPC corp not socially interact?
The most active corp chats I've ever been in have been NPC Corps.
Random fleet ups occur.
People want help, fitting advice, skill training discussions.....

I'd say the people in NPC corps interact socially and engage in the 'Multiplayer' aspect just fine thank you.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2013-01-28 03:07:13 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
How exactly does someone in an NPC corp not socially interact?
The most active corp chats I've ever been in have been NPC Corps.
Random fleet ups occur.
People want help, fitting advice, skill training discussions.....

I'd say the people in NPC corps interact socially and engage in the 'Multiplayer' aspect just fine thank you.

Agreed hence my and others interest in making NPC corps better.
Of course others want their leet pvp but are scared of suiciding for it.
So the new duel option will be put in and then they have a valid method.
Of course most will ignore them so then there will be demands to have it default to yes and make a person refuse,
I figure it will make it to page 3 before an ISD kicks it.
Dave Stark
#45 - 2013-01-28 04:13:51 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
How exactly does someone in an NPC corp not socially interact?
The most active corp chats I've ever been in have been NPC Corps.
Random fleet ups occur.
People want help, fitting advice, skill training discussions.....

I'd say the people in NPC corps interact socially and engage in the 'Multiplayer' aspect just fine thank you.


people being retards and spamming corp chat does not make them active, and discourages me from wanting to socially interact with my new corp friends!

npc corp chat is the blind, leading the blind and deaf, straight off a cliff, in to a pit full of dirty needles and alligators. i'd honestly rather have my face mauled by a rabid doberman than open corp chat in an npc corp, it'd be less painful.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#46 - 2013-01-28 05:06:05 UTC
Diablo Ex wrote:
The simple solution to the High Sec problem of NPC Corps is pretty obvious to me, and implementing this will add content, give greater meaning to character racial choices, and overall improve the Storyline of EvE Online.

Make the NPC Corps an active part of the Faction War system. If you don't want to be an Economical or Political Faction War targetable asset, then you can always form your own corporation. Seriously, only the Training Academys and Schools should be neutral and protected. Everything else should rightfully be either a player owned corp, or a part of the Ruling Faction of their area of High Sec. Honestly, if you don't want to be involved in EvE Online just go find another game....

I know I can hear the trolls and carebears already lining up to trash this idea, but hey this is what happens in GD.

.


Why do you want everyone to be in the same big bowl of soup?

Hi sec NPC folks are a problem?
There is a way to PVP them, keep adding bounties till their juicy enough to go after, why do you want them to be involved?
Not everyone wants to be hugged up with you or play your game as this game offers many styles and features to let you choose your game.
If you really are looking for PVP FW, low, WH, null all await you to grace them with your presence and will be happy to give you all the interactive action you desire.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2013-01-28 05:16:08 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Dyvim Slorm wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


i'm a miner, tax rate means nothing to me. although, player corps can't offer me anything i can't get in an npc corp as a miner. that's why i'm in an npc corp.



That's a very good point, maybe tax mining yields for NPC corps then Smile


again, why not just make player corps attractive rather than making npc corps unattractive?

i guess this is too difficult to Eve players...
you know: game image and all this stuff...

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Fal Dara
Vortex Command Corporation
#48 - 2013-01-28 05:35:51 UTC
Both accounts i own are now NPC corp possesions.

Fal here has 135m SP's (some in reserve i havnt used) ... and there is NO reason whatsoever to join a player corp. That is the problem. Why should i?

It's not about war decs--although i dont pvp, and would likley leave most corps upon them recieving a dec... I wouldnt willingly participate in PvP in any situation--even if you forced me into some NPC corp that was FW enabled.

Raise my taxes? fine. Most people in NPC corps mine, or build. The 11% doesnt bother me, as most of the pvp/0.0 corps i or my alts have ever been in were 10% to 100% taxes ... there's no difference there. in some cases i'm way better off. (many 0.0 corps bump taxes to 100% durring ops(that can last weeks or months) to discourage ratting--which is terrible income anyway!).

Add on top of this, the fact that most player corps are inept at everything they do, and abuse industry folks like myself... and i just NEVER have a reason to be in one. They want me to build this or that, for no profit, or free (hello, who mined it? bought it? built it? fueled that pos? ME. pay me. have some respect. PvPrs dont respect miners or builders, they can NOT tell the difference).

Go to 0.0 ... to .. pvp? joy. forced log-in times for forced ops to participate in some roam or other pvp camping session that will leave me with 5 horus wasted humping a gate, running from larger fleets, or lagging out when we're hot-dropped. That's .... fun?

go to 0.0 for ... mining? Put some more trit and pyer in the ABC's and make them 3-4 times more valueable than veld in empire, and you'd have a point... but as it stands, i can make a 2 week old retriever alt and mine more in 0.7.

make friends? i do that already, quite well in the NPC corp, where there are 400 people that i can help, mission with, 1v1, talk about ANYthing to, find fits, etc etc. player corp? 10-50 people who hardly ever talk, if they're ever on. I live in alaska. My time zone excludes me from just about everything. all the US ops are east-coasters, and i catch the tail end. all the euro ops i'm asleep 2 hours before it starts, and the ausies are 4 hours off as well ....

WHY? ... why join a player corp? it offers nothing to me whatsoever. Not more ISK, not nore people/friends, not more security ... nothing.

change THAT. (and i didnt even touch on the drama and pissing contests)

raise my taxes. see if i care. i dont. i'll mission less, and build/mine more.

and those that do care will create 1 man corps and get bored and unsub in a few months.

just like when they added the 11%.

next.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2013-01-28 05:38:41 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
I agree, replacing the guaranteed concord protection with a 'freelancer' system is the way to go. Let the players decide for themselves whether going it alone or defending as part of a team works best.

we have this system in 0.0 already. in WH. Is it really needed to bring it into high-sec too?

Because while we are at this point why not remove all stargates and local chat all around the Universe? Because WHs show - this works well.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Spurty
#50 - 2013-01-28 05:58:42 UTC
Problem is you can't safely idle at gates in high sec and shoot noobs

Solution is to move to null

Unwanted solution, I might die! Break game so there are no new players ever retained for my benefit

So, no. Terrible idea. Obvious troll attempt #48315 with removing NPC corps

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Spurty
#51 - 2013-01-28 06:03:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Spurty
March rabbit wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
I agree, replacing the guaranteed concord protection with a 'freelancer' system is the way to go. Let the players decide for themselves whether going it alone or defending as part of a team works best.

we have this system in 0.0 already. in WH. Is it really needed to bring it into high-sec too?

Because while we are at this point why not remove all stargates and local chat all around the Universe? Because WHs show - this works well.


Going to add to this guys point.

The beta version is live on TQ.

Suspect flag.

Your idea is not a viable replacement.

The replacement needs to be authoritive and assured.

You're sadly (possibly unbeknown to yourself) asking for an I win button. Already see where pay to win gets you.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Diablo Ex
Nocturne Holdings
#52 - 2013-01-28 06:10:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Diablo Ex
Some question how an NPC corp hurts me?

I can think of a number of ways.

1) I would like to "stake a claim" upon the asteroid belts in a particular system. Competitors that come in to mine "our" ores should be wardecable. We are merely defending our terf. No, we are not big enough to move into Nullsec, and we have no desire to be a renter. But we should be able to fend off competitors. I can't tell you how often I've seen entire systems stripped by hoards of NPC mining Bots.

2) The same goes for Signatures and Anomolies. We catch you scanning in our constellation and we would like to once again fend off the competition. It is most difficult to control a local market if there are swarms of "untouchable" competitors.

3) Yes, Ganking is an option, but it is a very costly and inefficient one in comparison to simply declaring war.

There are numerous reasons for conducting warfare, being territorial is one good reason.
Just imagine the tears if Player Corps and Alliances were unable to engage someone in Nullsec simply because they were in an NPC Corp, and they would risk having their SuperCap Instapoped by Concord if they tried.

See my point?

Diablo Ex Machina - "I'm not here to fix your problem"
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#53 - 2013-01-28 06:12:54 UTC
Hmmmm...

Staying in an NPC corp vs being bossed around by a drooling aspie?
Wanderinlost
Task Force MK7
#54 - 2013-01-28 08:12:45 UTC
Diablo Ex wrote:
Some question how an NPC corp hurts me?

I can think of a number of ways.

1) I would like to "stake a claim" upon the asteroid belts in a particular system. Competitors that come in to mine "our" ores should be wardecable. We are merely defending our terf. No, we are not big enough to move into Nullsec, and we have no desire to be a renter. But we should be able to fend off competitors. I can't tell you how often I've seen entire systems stripped by hoards of NPC mining Bots.

2) The same goes for Signatures and Anomolies. We catch you scanning in our constellation and we would like to once again fend off the competition. It is most difficult to control a local market if there are swarms of "untouchable" competitors.

3) Yes, Ganking is an option, but it is a very costly and inefficient one in comparison to simply declaring war.

There are numerous reasons for conducting warfare, being territorial is one good reason.
Just imagine the tears if Player Corps and Alliances were unable to engage someone in Nullsec simply because they were in an NPC Corp, and they would risk having their SuperCap Instapoped by Concord if they tried.

See my point?


How about low-sec or w-hole? These are two area with nothing stopping you from "staking a claim" which is something you have no right too do in EMPIRE space. Empire is for everyone.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2013-01-28 08:34:26 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Diablo Ex wrote:
Some question how an NPC corp hurts me?

I can think of a number of ways.
...
See my point?

i see. you want easy mode.

ganking is too expensive. war dec is cheap and riskless (we all know who you will wardec).

for mining you already have options - bumping for example.
for anomaly running you already have options - be faster and/or smarter. Kill boss and take loot. People do it all the time.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2013-01-28 08:43:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Skeln Thargensen wrote:

I already said i don't mind potential nerfs to industry and you said that wasn't the point.

this is a sandbox game. you should be able to play it how you want to..
I want to play a game where I never die and can kill anyone at will. It's a sandbox, I should be able to play it how I want to, right? Likewise, a system where others have to suffer potential wardecs for the hubris of wanting to work as part of a team, and I gain advantages because I do not is not necessarily justified by the word 'sandbox'.

NPC corps harm the game by lowering the competitive bar to a point where risking any form of PVP puts one at a competitive disadvantage and trivializes alliance logistics for everyone in New Eden. They do not protect newbies as weak ships remain at risk at suicide ganking. They harm newbies by placing them in economic competition with NPC corp veterans who enjoy ever-cyclical cumulative wealth with no risk of loss beyond suicide gank. They are bad and need to go.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2013-01-28 08:47:39 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
How exactly does someone in an NPC corp not socially interact?
The most active corp chats I've ever been in have been NPC Corps.
Random fleet ups occur.
People want help, fitting advice, skill training discussions.....

I'd say the people in NPC corps interact socially and engage in the 'Multiplayer' aspect just fine thank you.

These are lovely analogies. Facts is people who are in NPC corps are at the greatest level of dropping out of EVE in the early stages - this is why orgs like RvB and other player-run corps are being pushed by CCP in order to increase player retention as part of their NPE. In any case, removing the protections and imbalanced benefits enjoyed by NPC corps can be done by simply implementing an auto-join chat channel upon chargen and login.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#58 - 2013-01-28 09:07:06 UTC
Wanderinlost wrote:
How about low-sec or w-hole? These are two area with nothing stopping you from "staking a claim" which is something you have no right too do in EMPIRE space. Empire is for everyone.


Why should he have to go to lowsec (which you seem to think isn't empire space) if he doesn't want to? As for his rights, like yours, they end in optimal + 2 x falloff. If he wants to assert his rights in highsec he's more than welcome to try, and good luck to him.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2013-01-28 09:12:07 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Wanderinlost wrote:
How about low-sec or w-hole? These are two area with nothing stopping you from "staking a claim" which is something you have no right too do in EMPIRE space. Empire is for everyone.


Why should he have to go to lowsec (which you seem to think isn't empire space) if he doesn't want to?

So he doesn't want to go to low-sec and he wants CCP to bring some parts of low-sec into high-sec for his pleasure?

Maybe i should start to demand too.... You know: i loved to run anomalies in my Nyx.... Would love to run lvl4s in it then. Yea, i know - fighter drones.... Ok. I can agree with dreadnought too.

admiral root wrote:
As for his rights, like yours, they end in optimal + 2 x falloff. If he wants to assert his rights in highsec he's more than welcome to try, and good luck to him.

he already has any options he needs to claim his rights. He just asks for easy mode. Which is not good.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2013-01-28 09:14:33 UTC
Contesting things and direct competition (PVP) are not 'wh and lowsec features', sorry.
Ban NPC corps.