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Crime & Punishment

 
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Please tell me if this is part of the game as it is intended; or something that should be petitioned
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Jaqueline Hyde
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-01-27 17:50:28 UTC
A group of friends were in a fleet mining a mission deadspace. Lone outsider ship scans down and warps in. He is flashing yellow approaching cans.

A member of our fleet in a Harbinger engages and takes aggression against the Incursus . The two are fighting. The Incursus is jamming and picking apart the Harbinger. Another player in a Harpy is warping to the location from many systems away. When he arrives in the system he joins the fleet and warps in to the deadspace as the Incursus is about to blow up the Harbinger, but the Incursus is no longer flashing yellow.

The Incursus was "suspect flagged" when he was engaged by the Harbinger. Harbinger was the aggressor. The Incursus fought 1v1 with the Harbinger the entire time and was still shooting him when the Harpy flew in. The Harpy was prevented from engaging the Incursus by security being set to green and the Incursus no longer being flagged. Should the Incursus not have remained flagged?

(or is that his only suspect / flag act was to mess with the cans; so when 15 minutes from the time he messed with the cans passes he is an innocent no matter that he has been in a fire fight with a fleet member the entire time) such that none of us can aid our friend without being criminally flagged and Concorded?

Ultimately the Harbinger was blown up and the pilot podded by the Incursus.
Potamus Jenkins
eXceed Inc.
Plucky Adventurers
#2 - 2013-01-27 18:00:53 UTC
it seems the incursus was at the end of his suspect timer
so harb engaged now they have an engagement timer or whatever
suspect timer wears off(no one else can shoot at him)
now they can only shoot at each other
thats what sounds like happened
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#3 - 2013-01-27 18:01:58 UTC
That is working as intended. The suspect flag will only last 15 mins unless he does something to renew it. (Repping someone with a PVP aggression timer, stealing from a can, or aggressing someone in low sec who isn't a valid target). Now the two players fighting created a limited engagement timer and this allowed them to keep fighting past the end of the suspect timer but prevented the harpy pilot from joining in.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-01-27 18:44:53 UTC
oh, ninjas how I love thee...

still teaching the carebears how game mechanics work.

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Jaqueline Hyde
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-01-27 18:46:41 UTC
Cheers. Thank you both for your replies. Very interesting.

Morals of the story:

Miners... Act fast and with impunity while your target is flagged.

Pirates.... effective use of your timers can be used to create an isolated fight in high sec while x number of ships are right there but can do nothing; or they will be Concorded. Although, you still have to get the preferred target to aggro you.
Potamus Jenkins
eXceed Inc.
Plucky Adventurers
#6 - 2013-01-27 19:33:20 UTC
Jaqueline Hyde wrote:
Cheers. Thank you both for your replies. Very interesting.

Morals of the story:

Miners... Act fast and with impunity while your target is flagged.

Pirates.... effective use of your timers can be used to create an isolated fight in high sec while x number of ships are right there but can do nothing; or they will be Concorded. Although, you still have to get the preferred target to aggro you.


ya belts, missions and stations is where you need to be very weary of shooting at suspects.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-01-27 22:12:51 UTC
Working as intended Big smile

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Silus Morde
#8 - 2013-01-27 22:30:17 UTC
Jaqueline Hyde wrote:
A group of friends were in a fleet mining a mission deadspace. Lone outsider ship scans down and warps in. He is flashing yellow approaching cans.

I am old school. I know they changed the rules on can-flipping but I use them only when there is a ship nearby to pick them up quickly. Leaving a jet-can full of ore floating out there is like driving to a potentially high crime area and leaving your car running while You walk inside. Chances are good someone will take it, and take it hoping you start a fight over it. Getting the ore and a kill would make their day. I know, dead space mission, pain mining and going to station, mining and going to station. But I would have the ore .. in station. Now, sometimes there are wrecks and/or cans from the wrecks after the wrecks were salvaged. If I don't want the loot I abandon the loot can. Simple rules. I also align to station or a gate, keep an eye on local and the traffic in the belt I am in. Mostly it workds. Inattention, a momentary distraction, or a lot of skill and luck on the pirate/ganker's part will cause me to lose my ship. It seems to happen less and less but thatcan always change. Basic rule for miners in my opinion is if a ship comes in flashing yellow it wants trouble, act accordingly - me, I would leave. fly safely.

Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.
Zoltan Lazar
#9 - 2013-01-28 06:01:21 UTC
If an incursus is killing your harb you need to take a serious look at the fit of that harb.
Ferahgo
Gem Industries Inc.
#10 - 2013-01-28 10:19:13 UTC
An incursus has no issues soloing a harbinger. Don't see why he would have to take a serious look at his fittings. His only mistake was engaging the incursus. Unless you know of some super secret technique that allows a harbingers lasers to make contact with a frigate.
Yuri Wayfare
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
#11 - 2013-01-28 11:37:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Yuri Wayfare
Ferahgo wrote:
Unless you know of some super secret technique that allows a harbingers lasers to make contact with a frigate.

Lasers, not so much. But there's webs, neuts and drones which might work on frigates:

http://www.suddenly-ninjas.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=16717

It does require the frigate pilot to be a little overconfident in closing the range though.

"Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk

Be careful what you wish for.
culo duro
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-01-28 11:45:42 UTC
Yuri Wayfare wrote:
Ferahgo wrote:
Unless you know of some super secret technique that allows a harbingers lasers to make contact with a frigate.

Lasers, not so much. But there's webs, neuts and drones which might work on frigates. It does require the frigate pilot to be a little overconfident in closing the range though.



I like my BCs like a like my frigates.... Slow.

I've starting blogging http://www.epvpc.blogspot.com 
Ferahgo
Gem Industries Inc.
#13 - 2013-01-28 12:51:22 UTC
A good incursus fit has a cap booster. And 5 small drones would be targeted and shot down, let alone not having the dps to effectively break its tank.
Yuri Wayfare
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
#14 - 2013-01-28 14:05:31 UTC
Never said it'd be easy, just that there's more than one way to skin a cat Lol Plus I've been looking for an excuse to show off that Dram kill for ages.

In fact I agree that it doesn't take a badly fit Harb to lose to an Incursus, if the Incursus pilot knows his stuff. The Harb could come out on top if he was either well-prepared or well-supported, but it sounds like neither was the case here. Another valuable lesson is learned in EVE.

"Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk

Be careful what you wish for.
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#15 - 2013-01-28 14:50:31 UTC
Yuri Wayfare wrote:
Never said it'd be easy, just that there's more than one way to skin a cat Lol Plus I've been looking for an excuse to show off that Dram kill for ages.

In fact I agree that it doesn't take a badly fit Harb to lose to an Incursus, if the Incursus pilot knows his stuff. The Harb could come out on top if he was either well-prepared or well-supported, but it sounds like neither was the case here. Another valuable lesson is learned in EVE.


Killmail link doesn't work. And yes, Incurses are great for killing Harbingers, or most any battlecruiser for that matter. The most effective defense that a mission runner in a Harbinger has against an Incursus in highsec is friends.

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!
Yuri Wayfare
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
#16 - 2013-01-28 15:11:42 UTC
Haedonism Bot wrote:
Killmail link doesn't work.

Forum borks it. Copy/paste the text instead of clicking should work.

"Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk

Be careful what you wish for.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#17 - 2013-01-28 17:43:52 UTC
Yuri Wayfare wrote:
Haedonism Bot wrote:
Killmail link doesn't work.

Forum borks it. Copy/paste the text instead of clicking should work.


Been a problem for years, at least for me. You need to just delete "amp;" from the url of the new window.

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Holznar'ar Eoner
Takamo
#18 - 2013-01-29 19:57:53 UTC
Jaqueline Hyde wrote:


... such that none of us can aid our friend without being criminally flagged and Concorded?



You can always aid your friend by bumping that Incursus out of scram range. Just time his orbit and the Harby's move to your bump.
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#19 - 2013-01-29 20:13:37 UTC
Holznar'ar Eoner wrote:
Jaqueline Hyde wrote:


... such that none of us can aid our friend without being criminally flagged and Concorded?



You can always aid your friend by bumping that Incursus out of scram range. Just time his orbit and the Harby's move to your bump.



Wait, isn´t bumping something evil that is only used AGAINST the upstanding, peaceful hi-sec dweller?

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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-01-30 03:02:52 UTC
Nerath Naaris wrote:
Holznar'ar Eoner wrote:
Jaqueline Hyde wrote:


... such that none of us can aid our friend without being criminally flagged and Concorded?



You can always aid your friend by bumping that Incursus out of scram range. Just time his orbit and the Harby's move to your bump.



Wait, isn´t bumping something evil that is only used AGAINST the upstanding, peaceful hi-sec dweller?


The immoral highsec dweller

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny