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Scamming new players.
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Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#321 - 2013-01-27 11:18:20 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Someone mugging locals outside the gate would be dealt with, not out of fair-mindedness or in an attempt to make the midway a safe place. They would be dealt with because locals that get mugged wont come back. While locals that lost in a rigged game or perhaps “lost” their wallet will go home, get some more money and come back again.


Presumably you placed a bounty on the scammer then and dealt with him as an EVE vet should? No, wait. You came to the forums to try and get the game changed. My mistake.

A bounty on an alt that prolly sits in station all day and has no pilot skills? I came to the forums to ask about something that I saw. Enough people feel that this is a problem that the convo started to look for solutions.



baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#322 - 2013-01-27 11:20:45 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:

A bounty on an alt that prolly sits in station all day and has no pilot skills? I came to the forums to ask about something that I saw. Enough people feel that this is a problem that the convo started to look for solutions.




No its you vs everyone else.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#323 - 2013-01-27 11:26:17 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Someone mugging locals outside the gate would be dealt with, not out of fair-mindedness or in an attempt to make the midway a safe place. They would be dealt with because locals that get mugged wont come back. While locals that lost in a rigged game or perhaps “lost” their wallet will go home, get some more money and come back again.


Presumably you placed a bounty on the scammer then and dealt with him as an EVE vet should? No, wait. You came to the forums to try and get the game changed. My mistake.

A bounty on an alt that prolly sits in station all day and has no pilot skills? I came to the forums to ask about something that I saw. Enough people feel that this is a problem that the convo started to look for solutions.





No you started to push for a solution to something that isn't a problem all by your self. You want something to have zero risk attached to it & everyone else is telling you why that shouldn't be the case.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#324 - 2013-01-27 11:28:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
baltec1 wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:

A bounty on an alt that prolly sits in station all day and has no pilot skills? I came to the forums to ask about something that I saw. Enough people feel that this is a problem that the convo started to look for solutions.




No its you vs everyone else.


That's just not true, go through the thread. Even if it was it doesn't make me wrong.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#325 - 2013-01-27 11:31:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:

A bounty on an alt that prolly sits in station all day and has no pilot skills? I came to the forums to ask about something that I saw. Enough people feel that this is a problem that the convo started to look for solutions.




No its you vs everyone else.


That's just not true, go through the thread. Even it was it doesn't make me wrong.


You're asking for a change because you heard about something that for all you know probably didn't happen. How does that make you right? The more likely scenario is you were scammed out of a PLEX & want them made 100% safe now.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#326 - 2013-01-27 11:42:25 UTC
There are some protections against harassing the really new players, though I think the biggest and most bannable offense is shooting at them in their starter systems or tricking them into aggressing you. Scamming new players out of a PLEX is something one should probably avoid, just because you don't want CCP deciding that you're costing them more than you're providing. They can invoke the grey rule on you and ban you for just about anything that causes them grief.

As for the moral side of it, I don't pass judgement on those who scam. It is up to the individual to protect themselves from scams by paying attention to warnings and making sure they understand the impact of their actions. I think a new player is warned very early that their in-game items are temporary and can be lost. It is up to the player to read these messages and take heed.

If you feel bad for those who fall to these scams, you can do your part to help by scamming newer or less experienced players out of smaller things. Once they get used to the brutal nature of the game and the players within it, they will begin to be more careful. Also, experiencing the various types of scams will help them to know what to look out for. For best results, don't give them their stuff back, or only give them part of it back. The actual loss may do as much to teach them as having watched it happen.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#327 - 2013-01-27 11:45:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Mallak Azaria wrote:

You're asking for a change because you heard about something that for all you know probably didn't happen. How does that make you right?


People don't spend money on things that they don't enjoy for one reason or another.

Trying to buy ISK with RL money and then being forced to use a trade system that is designed with the possibility of deception and manipulation and then being ripped off is not fun.

They will probably not buy another PLEX or come back to the sandbox.

The sandbox will shut down if people don't send CCP enough real money to pay staff and keep the servers running.

Allowing someone to come in and look around a bit and taking their ISK a little bit at a time does not make Eve any less grim and dark and dangerous. It makes Eve more vibrant and interesting.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#328 - 2013-01-27 11:47:48 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:

You're asking for a change because you heard about something that for all you know probably didn't happen. How does that make you right?


People don't spend money on things that they don't enjoy for one reason or another.

Trying to buy ISK with RL money and then being forced to use a trade system that is designed with the possibility of deception and manipulation and then being ripped off is not fun.

They will probably not buy another PLEX or come back to the sandbox.

The sandbox will shut down if people don't send CCP enough real money to pay staff and keep the servers running.

Allowing someone to come in and look around a bit and taking their ISK a little bit at a time does not make Eve any less grim and dark and dangerous. It makes Eve more vibrant and interesting. And even though the mark got ripped off they will most likely come back with more money in the future.


so you're suggesting that CCP sell ISK outright

it's almost like you don't understand why PLEX exists and why CCP doesn't sell ISK outright

go think about that for a bit

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#329 - 2013-01-27 11:49:32 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
There are some protections against harassing the really new players, though I think the biggest and most bannable offense is shooting at them in their starter systems or tricking them into aggressing you. Scamming new players out of a PLEX is something one should probably avoid, just because you don't want CCP deciding that you're costing them more than you're providing. They can invoke the grey rule on you and ban you for just about anything that causes them grief.

As for the moral side of it, I don't pass judgement on those who scam. It is up to the individual to protect themselves from scams by paying attention to warnings and making sure they understand the impact of their actions. I think a new player is warned very early that their in-game items are temporary and can be lost. It is up to the player to read these messages and take heed.

If you feel bad for those who fall to these scams, you can do your part to help by scamming newer or less experienced players out of smaller things. Once they get used to the brutal nature of the game and the players within it, they will begin to be more careful. Also, experiencing the various types of scams will help them to know what to look out for. For best results, don't give them their stuff back, or only give them part of it back. The actual loss may do as much to teach them as having watched it happen.

That is a great way to look at the situation. New players should get a bunch of smaller items to trade and learn with, not one that can be lost in the first exchange. Smaller items can still be scammed and stolen but the new player will learn the game and come back to Eve.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#330 - 2013-01-27 11:53:50 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
That is a great way to look at the situation. New players should get a bunch of smaller items to trade and learn with, not one that can be lost in the first exchange. Smaller items can still be scammed and stolen but the new player will learn the game and come back to Eve.
that's an excellent idea. Perhaps the new player implant ought to be split into several implants, so that the new player has the option to equip only some of them and keep the others safe.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#331 - 2013-01-27 11:53:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:

You're asking for a change because you heard about something that for all you know probably didn't happen. How does that make you right?


People don't spend money on things that they don't enjoy for one reason or another.

Trying to buy ISK with RL money and then being forced to use a trade system that is designed with the possibility of deception and manipulation and then being ripped off is not fun.

They will probably not buy another PLEX or come back to the sandbox.

The sandbox will shut down if people don't send CCP enough real money to pay staff and keep the servers running.

Allowing someone to come in and look around a bit and taking their ISK a little bit at a time does not make Eve any less grim and dark and dangerous. It makes Eve more vibrant and interesting. And even though the mark got ripped off they will most likely come back with more money in the future.


You seem to have this idea stuck in your head that buying PLEX is the same as buying ISK. You are wrong. PLEX is an in-game version of 30 days of play time. As an in-game item it can be stolen, blown up, looted, sold on the market, trashed, given away, stockpiled & is also occasionally used for promotional purposes. PLEX however is not ISK, it is PLEX & there is a reason CCP does it this way.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#332 - 2013-01-27 11:56:07 UTC
Andski wrote:


so you're suggesting that CCP sell ISK outright

it's almost like you don't understand why PLEX exists and why CCP doesn't sell ISK outright

go think about that for a bit


I'm suggesting that PLEX be removed as an option for new players to buy in game items. There are many other options which will better allow a new player to buy a few in game items and look around at Eve, idc which one they implement in its stead so long as it allows someone buying in game currency to play with it a bit, and that experience makes them more likely to come back to Eve and spend some more money.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#333 - 2013-01-27 11:57:38 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Andski wrote:


so you're suggesting that CCP sell ISK outright

it's almost like you don't understand why PLEX exists and why CCP doesn't sell ISK outright

go think about that for a bit


I'm suggesting that PLEX be removed as an option for new players to buy in game items. There are many other options which will better allow a new player to buy a few in game items and look around at Eve, idc which one they implement in its stead so long as it allows someone buying in game currency to play with it a bit, and that experience makes them more likely to come back to Eve and spend some more money.


At last, your real intention is exposed. You want CCP to sell isk directly.



No.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#334 - 2013-01-27 11:58:09 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
I'm suggesting that PLEX be removed as an option for new players to buy in game items. There are many other options which will better allow a new player to buy a few in game items and look around at Eve, idc which one they implement in its stead so long as it allows someone buying in game currency to play with it a bit, and that experience makes them more likely to come back to Eve and spend some more money.


because new players are obviously the only buyers of PLEX right

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#335 - 2013-01-27 12:06:23 UTC
Andski wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
I'm suggesting that PLEX be removed as an option for new players to buy in game items. There are many other options which will better allow a new player to buy a few in game items and look around at Eve, idc which one they implement in its stead so long as it allows someone buying in game currency to play with it a bit, and that experience makes them more likely to come back to Eve and spend some more money.


because new players are obviously the only buyers of PLEX right


Most people find the game more enjoyable having to earn their way. Buying PLEX & selling it on the market diminishes the whole experience & makes them less likely to continue playing.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#336 - 2013-01-27 12:11:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Andski wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
I'm suggesting that PLEX be removed as an option for new players to buy in game items. There are many other options which will better allow a new player to buy a few in game items and look around at Eve, idc which one they implement in its stead so long as it allows someone buying in game currency to play with it a bit, and that experience makes them more likely to come back to Eve and spend some more money.


because new players are obviously the only buyers of PLEX right


PLEX should still be an option in game. But it should be buried on the accounts page so that only veteran pilots will find it.

When a new player or his parents, grandparents, uncle, cousin, friend, want to spend extra money on Eve the option they first see available should be one that allows the new player in to Eve and gives them some time to look around and enjoy their experience here. That wont make Eve less dangerous or safe. It will make Eve more vibrant and profitable.

You guys are not going to find a secret agenda, I have none. I don't like business practices that drive away money and I don't like it when people manipulate facts for personal gain.
Richard Outamon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#337 - 2013-01-27 12:12:53 UTC
Ah a nice reminder why i cancelled my sub and why i love EVE at the same time

The amount of sociopaths and leet children in this community is astounding supported by the most unethical mmo company in gaming history. This is exactly why it will always remain an obscure niche mmo, well that and the fact the gameplay is extremely clunky and unexciting to say the least

At the same time i love EVE because the more retards playing this the less i have to endure in a proper mmo somewhere else. So remember kids - stay subbed here, scam away to your hearts contend. CCP wont punish you, heck they've been involved in numerous ethically questionable incidents themselves. Whatever you do though please don't leave EVE
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#338 - 2013-01-27 12:14:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Andski wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
I'm suggesting that PLEX be removed as an option for new players to buy in game items. There are many other options which will better allow a new player to buy a few in game items and look around at Eve, idc which one they implement in its stead so long as it allows someone buying in game currency to play with it a bit, and that experience makes them more likely to come back to Eve and spend some more money.


because new players are obviously the only buyers of PLEX right


PLEX should still be an option in game. But it should be buried on the accounts page so that only veteran pilots will find it.

When a new player or his parents, grandparents, uncle, cousin, friend, want to spend extra money on Eve the option they first see available should be one that allows the new player in to Eve and gives them some time to look around and enjoy their experience here. That wont make Eve less dangerous or safe. It will make Eve more vibrant and profitable.

You guys are not going to find a secret agenda, I have none. I don't like business practices that drive away money and I don't like it when people manipulate facts for personal gain.


I don't even care if the if the value of PLEX is greater, making it the better option. Only that the initiated are not exposed to the risks of PLEX.
Lovely Dumplings
My Little Pony Appreciation Corporation
#339 - 2013-01-27 12:34:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Lovely Dumplings
No thanks to P2W "safe" ISK from midair. Solves no problem, generates many.

Where do you draw the line? I can scam someone out of "safe" ISK for $$$ just as fast as I can scam a PLEX. We'd be hearing about "Mommy bought me $30 worth of ISK for my birthday and some mean person sold me a piece of Carbon that I thought was a Charon!"

You put it in the game-world, it's vulnerable to someone else taking it from you.

www.minerbumping.com
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#340 - 2013-01-27 12:39:32 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
PLEX should still be an option in game. But it should be buried on the accounts page so that only veteran pilots will find it.


Then he says:

Corey Fumimasa wrote:
I don't like business practices that drive away money and I don't like it when people manipulate facts for personal gain.


Here's a shocker for you; Your idea would do exactly that. Advertising PLEX makes CCP money. Why would they stop doing that just because you heard about something that might not have happened?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.